[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
[quote]ScholesGoals wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]squatbenchhench wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
I just thought this was effective.[/quote]
Almost every person in Britain who saw that imagine immediately thought of. . . .Belfast flattened to the ground with 1000s of innocents dead. . [/quote]
Very curious that “every person who saw picture in Britain” thought of the Irish when they looked at London being hit by missiles, since the last time London was hit by missiles was when the Nazis randomly dropped missiles all over civilians in London — in the exact same terror manner the arabs are dropping missiles all over Israel.
Well, no. In the more accurate comparison of Nazi bombardment of London with missiles, in response England (with American help) conducted massive firebombing of German civilian areas, primarily at night, (generally leaving the strategic bombing of fortified areas to the American day-time-raids) resulting the near-complete destruction of any German town with a population of over 100,000.
Dresden, in particular, was bombed in a manner so as to maximize civilian casualties. I believe 25,000 were killed in one night.
“The ultimate aim [of the the British attack on German civilians was] to break the morale of the population which occupies it. To ensure this, we must achieve two things: first, we must make the town physically uninhabitable and, secondly, we must make the people conscious of constant personal danger. The immediate aim, is therefore, twofold, namely, to produce (i) destruction and (ii) fear of death.” *
- Despatch on war operations, 23rd February, 1945
Hamas stated goal is not independence of Gaza as a nation for the arabs. A state was offered in 1930s and repeatedly since, most recently last week. Hamas’s stated goal is “the elimination of Jews from the entirety Palestine and the elimination of Israel.”
In short, Hamas’ goal is the genocide of my entire people.
Now, how does one “respect” the desire for genocide? How does one come to a “peaceful political settlement” with a someone who wants to kill your entire family?
What’s the offer: “OK, Hamas, here’s the deal. You wait 7 years before you attack and then you only get to kill 1/2 the Jews and you let 1/2 the Jews scatter to other countries?”
No one blinked when London attacked the genocidal nutbags in Germany in a far more vicious manner than Israel does Hamas.
To hold Israel to different standard is absurd.[/quote]
To compare a few thousand rockets fired by Arabs that have killed almost no one to the Blitz seems incredibly biased.
Again I see Israeli military actions in response to rockets as justified, but when you approach it by comparing shitty rockets that almost never kill anyone to the utter destruction of the ariel bombardment of london, you are doing a disservice to your position, in my personal opinion.
However where I think you are spot on is when you say “to hold israel tpo a different standard is absurd” which I tend to agree with.[/quote]
Just because someone is really bad at something and really ineffective, doesn’t change the intent and doesn’t mean that the intent should be ignored. The Hamas rockets are launched with the intent on killing Jews, period. Just because they are bad at it doesn’t mean that should be forgotten. If they were more efficient the total civilian casualties would be greatly one-sided the other way. Civilians are the targets of Hamas. Civilians are collateral damage of Israel and most are directly caused by Hamas themselves.
Also, to your point about the original people being displaced. You are aware that a two state solution was proposed after WWII and agreed upon by the Jews, but rejected by the Palestinians. This led to the Palestinians starting a war to conqueror and displace or kill the Jews living in the region but they lost. Each conflict since that time has been with that same single-minded purpose. Rid Palestine (which is Israel) of Jews by conquering and displacing or killing them. How is it that everyone forgets that little agenda whenever they suggest that if Israel just lets them have Gaza and the West bank that that will make them so happy that there will be peace?? What fools those people are. [/quote]
Of course, you are right, the intent should not be ignored, I am just sying to compare them is just not really appropriate. Germany was a major power with a military might stemming from an Army, air force and navy that a tiny ammount of militants in Gaza do not have.
The comparison just does not fit, one is a tiny resistance force, their land was taken and the natives forced out to make way for a jewish state.
Again as someone who is not religious and believes in rational thought and cause and effect, I can understand why the events of the holocaust might lead to the jewish people fighting for a jewish state and to do things like force palestinians off their land and kill lots of them, I understand why this historically took place and do not cast judgement for it.
But the fact no one is meaningfully adressing this, is part of the reason so many people wrongly, in my opinion, side with palestine, because no one, even people i greatly respect, who side with Israel in the conflict, can explain how to adress the roots of the conflict.
When you force millions off land, commit massacres and so on, you create a situation where it is going to be so hard to ever get those people to not want to kill you. Instead of arguing about israel palestine, something we have no effect on. A sensisble discussion would be how we get these two groups to come to an arrangement where a few key issues are adressed:
- Right of return
- Apology for the forced removal of people from lands, destruction of houses, massacres
- Problem of anti semitism
- problem of broader politics in the region which prevent progress
- Illegal settlements
- legitimacy of targets on either side
They would be a good strt for dialogue in my opinion.
