Ephedra/Stimulant Abuse

Diet and Nutrition
1

At the risk of sounding like a total loser, I’m asking for some input here.

About 7 or 8 years ago, I was introduced to ephedra because I had awful allergies - still do. I noticed as a side-effect, a tremendous energy increase and also it kept my body fat much lower with little/no effort.

I’m really skeptical and hesitant to talk about adrenals and fatigue, since I know they are popular buzz-words right now, but I really do believe that I’m suffering from symptoms of adrenal fatigue or whatever you want to call it. I originally thought it was my ME training days but in retrospect, I’m not really so sure that’s what it was.

Just so that you have an idea of the types of things I’m experiencing, they are: feelings of no energy despite taking ephedra; weakened immune system; swollen glands (that feeling you get in your glands when you’re starting to get say strep throat); breakouts that don’t seem to clear up; a constant worried feeling; withdrawl feelings if I don’t take it.

Please tell me that I’m not the only one on this board whose gone through this. Can anyone please share with me how they stopped their ephedrda/stimulant dependancy? I’d really appreciate it since I already feel like a total jerk for even posting this.

Thanks everyone.

Susan

2

Have you taken ephedra non-stop since being introduced to it? Long term use can cause these symptoms especially if you are regularly taking a dose equal to or greater than recommended.

What’s your dosing protocol look like?

3

Thanks for the reply Big Ragoo.

Honestly? 240-360mg pseudoephedrine (120mg, 2-3x’s a day). Although I did take a summer off a few years back, it’s pretty well been a consitent part of my life for the entire time.

I put it on the table, may as well be honest about it.

4

240-360mg? WOW~! lol

5

Thanks a lot.

6

That has to be too much for someone your size. I don’t know how that translates from pseudo to ephedrine, but I took like 200 mg a day of ephedrine at one time with no problems. I was a lot bigger than you though and if that is anything like actually that much ephedrine I can’t fathom how that can be good.

7

I haven’t really heard of much pseudoephedrine addiction since it doesn’t do as much for dompamine levels as the stimulants more commonly abused. That said, you may want to look at some of the treatment protocols for stimulant addiction all the same. At very least, take some time off every so often to lower your tolerance and required dosage.

If there are any stones left unturned in finding a solution for your allergy issues, I suggest you get turning.

8

To help come off of the pseudoephedrine, I would recommend tapering off gradually, as this will help minimize the withdrawal symptoms; you probably already knew that though, but just making sure. Should make it somewhat less painful than cutting cold turkey :wink:

Good luck

9

[quote]MsM wrote:
Thanks for the reply Big Ragoo.

Honestly? 240-360mg pseudoephedrine (120mg, 2-3x’s a day). Although I did take a summer off a few years back, it’s pretty well been a consitent part of my life for the entire time.

I put it on the table, may as well be honest about it.[/quote]

Whoa!! That’s a lot to taking on daily basis. Even at my bodyweight, the most I use is 50mg a day with a couple excursions into 100mgs.

So, yes this dosage is far too much to stay on and not experience profound side effects. Adrenal fatigue? You probably qualify. I think you need to take a break for at least two months and let your body literally heal. I’m surprised that what you listed is the extent of your symptoms. Have you had any irregularities with your heartbeat? What about extreme headaches? Do you even have an appetite?

I think it would be very wise to wean off this dose at least until your symptoms subside and then maybe start to use it at 25mgs at a time, no more than twice a day. I honestly feel you have been taking too much for too long. Don’t do yourself anymore harm. Please!

10

Oh, that constant “worry” feeling is a symptom of overuse in any stimulant case. That should tell you that you’re taking too much. This feeling is usually noted when coming down after a dose.

11

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
That has to be too much for someone your size. I don’t know how that translates from pseudo to ephedrine, but I took like 200 mg a day of ephedrine at one time with no problems. I was a lot bigger than you though and if that is anything like actually that much ephedrine I can’t fathom how that can be good.[/quote]

I’m not really that small - 5’10" and almost 140lbs. You probably are bigger than me.

I don’t think it’s good either.

Thank you for the response. I doubt there’d be a need for me to use 2-3x what any man uses.

12

[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
MsM wrote:
Thanks for the reply Big Ragoo.

Honestly? 240-360mg pseudoephedrine (120mg, 2-3x’s a day). Although I did take a summer off a few years back, it’s pretty well been a consitent part of my life for the entire time.

I put it on the table, may as well be honest about it.

Whoa!! That’s a lot to taking on daily basis. Even at my bodyweight, the most I use is 50mg a day with a couple excursions into 100mgs.

So, yes this dosage is far too much to stay on and not experience profound side effects. Adrenal fatigue? You probably qualify. I think you need to take a break for at least two months and let your body literally heal. I’m surprised that what you listed is the extent of your symptoms. Have you had any irregularities with your heartbeat? What about extreme headaches? Do you even have an appetite?

I think it would be very wise to wean off this dose at least until your symptoms subside and then maybe start to use it at 25mgs at a time, no more than twice a day. I honestly feel you have been taking too much for too long. Don’t do yourself anymore harm. Please![/quote]

I do get headaches all the time Big Ragoo. I just attributed them to work stress. No irregular heart beat or anything. My blood pressure is actually just on the low side. Appetite varies. When I used to use Ma Huang (herbal ephedra), my appetite was very little. Now that they’ve banned that where I live, the only alternative that people had were pseudo-edphedra (kind found in cold and allergy meds). My appetite varies with the pseudo.

14

[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
Oh, that constant “worry” feeling is a symptom of overuse in any stimulant case. That should tell you that you’re taking too much. This feeling is usually noted when coming down after a dose.[/quote]

I tried to use the word worry instead of say, nervous. Sometimes I think people get the idea that stimulants make you hyper and bounce off the walls. Other than when I’m in the gym, I actually think I would appear very calm. I doubt anyone knows I even take them.

Thank you so much for taking my concern seriously. Means a lot and I don’t know if it’ll be easy but I’m ready to make some changes. Just hope I don’t put on 30lbs of bf before Christmas. I’m not really opposed to extra weight, as I’m sure it’d help my PLing total…I just don’t want my bf to go through the roof either.

Once again, thank you for your all your help.

Susan

15

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Have you noticed an increase in abdominal subcutaneous water retention at all?

How is your BP currently?

Bushy[/quote]

Hi Bushy.

I have actually now that you mention it. I take it that’s not good?

BP is on average 110/60 roughly. Sometimes a little bit lower.

16

[quote]MsM wrote:
BigRagoo wrote:
Oh, that constant “worry” feeling is a symptom of overuse in any stimulant case. That should tell you that you’re taking too much. This feeling is usually noted when coming down after a dose.

I tried to use the word worry instead of say, nervous. Sometimes I think people get the idea that stimulants make you hyper and bounce off the walls. Other than when I’m in the gym, I actually think I would appear very calm. I doubt anyone knows I even take them.

Thank you so much for taking my concern seriously. Means a lot and I don’t know if it’ll be easy but I’m ready to make some changes. Just hope I don’t put on 30lbs of bf before Christmas. I’m not really opposed to extra weight, as I’m sure it’d help my PLing total…I just don’t want my bf to go through the roof either.

Once again, thank you for your all your help.

Susan[/quote]

Well, as far as weight gain is concerned, if you don’t compensate with food for not taking the stim, you shouldn’t notice much. Your appetite will pick up, but so will your energy levels. So if you’re strict with your diet and train hard you shouldn’t see much of a weight increase. Also your body will respond to food and training better once you’ve gotten off the ephedrine. That much stimulants for that long of time has been putting your whole system through too much stress, hence the headaches and fatigue.

17

[quote]BigRagoo wrote:
MsM wrote:
BigRagoo wrote:
Oh, that constant “worry” feeling is a symptom of overuse in any stimulant case. That should tell you that you’re taking too much. This feeling is usually noted when coming down after a dose.

I tried to use the word worry instead of say, nervous. Sometimes I think people get the idea that stimulants make you hyper and bounce off the walls. Other than when I’m in the gym, I actually think I would appear very calm. I doubt anyone knows I even take them.

Thank you so much for taking my concern seriously. Means a lot and I don’t know if it’ll be easy but I’m ready to make some changes. Just hope I don’t put on 30lbs of bf before Christmas. I’m not really opposed to extra weight, as I’m sure it’d help my PLing total…I just don’t want my bf to go through the roof either.

Once again, thank you for your all your help.

Susan

Well, as far as weight gain is concerned, if you don’t compensate with food for not taking the stim, you shouldn’t notice much. Your appetite will pick up, but so will your energy levels. So if you’re strict with your diet and train hard you shouldn’t see much of a weight increase. Also your body will respond to food and training better once you’ve gotten off the ephedrine. That much stimulants for that long of time has been putting your whole system through too much stress, hence the headaches and fatigue.[/quote]

Yes, you’re right. I know.

I suppose even more than my bf increasing, my biggest concern is my liver and kidneys. I already have an ulcer, which I am 100% convinced was self-induced and my immune system has really taken a huge whack.

In the last year and a half, I’ve had an emergency appendectomy, developed an ulcer and had just a plague of other things crop up. I’m not quite 33 yet and I feel like I’ll end up with some serious health problems if I don’t smarten up soon.

Does anybody have any idea how long it takes/would take to clear the body of a stimulant if it was used excessively for prolonged periods of time? Or, any idea what kind of tests could be run to determine any problems without becoming another ephedra statistic. I really don’t think the problem is with ephedra itself but the misuse of it, like I’ve obviously done.

18

I’ve read some reports of people getting temporary asthma like symptoms after quitting long term heavy bronchodilator use, but have no specific confirmation. You are way too young to be putting up with all these health issues already. I have no problem with things like ephedrine, but like anything too much is bad (duh?) You need to get away from it at least for a while and not let yourself get into it so heavy and hard again.

I know it’s water soluble and has a relatively short life in the body, but it desensitizes the beta receptors, if I remember right (been a long time), and that will take a while to correct itself. It’s the receptor desensitization that leads to upregulation, read tolerance, again if I remember right.

19

You guys are awesome and I am so elated that you’ve taken the time to help. I sincerly am thankful.

Tribulus? What exactly is upregulation and read tolerance? I have looked up both and I have a very basic understanding of upregulation…by read tolerance, do you mean my PH level?

Thank you and excuse my layman understanding.

I did cut back to 180mg today and my body is not liking it very much.

20

Im just curious as to why you took such a large dosage in the first place.