Trouble with Ephedrine and Girl Steroids

Pharma / TRT
1

Okay so basically the point of this post is to see if something’s totally going wrong or if I’m just a wuss. And yes, I know ephedrine isn’t a steroid, but I figure you guys might be more helpful than the supplements board and I still have a steroid-related question.

I just got done with a few months of maintenance and am presently at about 20% bf, working toward cutting down to about 15%. I started my first ephedrine stack roughly a week and a half ago. I started out taking 12.5 mg of ephedrine (in the form of Primatene) and 200 mg of caffeine with breakfast and lunch as well as an anti-catabolic (Mega Shred, which I’ve used multiple times before with no problems) at breakfast, lunch, and dinner. After about a week, I added an extra ephedrine around breakfast so in total for the day I’m currently taking 37.5 mg ephedrine, 400 mg of caffeine, and three Mega Shreds.

The side effects have been brutal. I’m running on about three hours of sleep if I’m lucky, and I’m normally the kind of person who can fall asleep in two seconds flat and stay there for twelve hours if left to my own devices. For the first few days the insomnia wasn’t that big of a deal but it’s starting to catch up to me to the point that it’s causing my workouts to suffer. I also have zero appetite. None. Yesterday I probably ate under 1000 calories as opposed to usually consuming double that even on a cut. Three bites of anything and I want to vomit.

I have horrible stomach cramps, I randomly got my period for about an hour today (I’m on a birth control pill and that is definitely not supposed to be happening right now), and while I normally have a basically nonexistent personal bubble, I can’t handle it if my husband so much as puts his arm on me when he’s sleeping. I’m not moody or anything, I’m just SUPER sensitive to anything touching me - which is partially why the insomnia is so bad. No matter what I do, there’ll be a wrinkle in the blankets or I’ll be in just slightly the wrong position and I can’t stay comfortable for more than thirty seconds. My heart rate also skyrockets when I’m working out. I always use a caffeine-based preworkout but normally the only time my heart rate ever gets into the 160-170 range is if I’m doing HIITs because I truly suck at cardio. Yesterday, my BPM was over 160 after a set of military press - only my second set of eight reps, nothing I had to really kill myself for, and done after chatting with another lifter for a few minutes so I was plenty rested.

Supposedly the side-effects die down over time and I’m liking the results I’m seeing already as far as fat burning goes, but I don’t know if those sides are pretty normal and I just need to ride it out or if there’s something wrong and I need to stop. For now I’m cutting back to just one 12.5 mg ephedrine with breakfast and trying to let my body slowly adjust to it.

If I DO need to get off of ephedrine, does anyone have any suggestions of what I could replace it with? I planned on doing anavar or winstrol in the future (I’m ultimately working toward competing in physique) but if I can’t even handle ephedrine I’m not sure what my options really are.

2

It sounds like you’re taking waaay too many stims. Not sure about the other sides you’re describing but ephedrine and caffeine can definitely cause insomnia and elevated HR. And lack of sleep + low cals will definitely make you irritable. Not familiar with mega shred…googled it and it looks like its just MCT/Omega 3??

I happen to really like primatene (year round allergies/exercise induced asthma + appetite suppression/energy makes it my #1 choice) and have used it to diet without any major issues.

Reading through your situation my first recommendation is STOP. Stop taking all of your diet supps and do not mess with anything that you don’t take regularly. Get back to normal and if you choose to try the supps again, reintroduce them slowly. The idea is not to take as much of this stuff as you can, rather, you should be to take as little as possible to get the desired results. If a little is good, a shitload is not necessarily better.

If you do decide to try to take ephedrine while dieting this is how I would approach it…

  1. Diet without any stimulants/fat burners/etc for as long as you can.
  2. Start slow: 12.5 ephedrine/100 caff at breakfast. Assess tolerance. (I always preferred to just use my morning coffee as the caffeine source)
  3. Avoid other stimulants. (Don’t drink a pot of coffee in addition to taking caffeine tabs, no pre-workout that has stimulants, etc)
  4. If 12.5/100 isn’t causing any negative sides, take a second at lunch. Just make sure you take your second dose at least 4 hours later. I’ve found that if I take anything after 3 or so, my sleep will be affected. I always tried to make sure my AM dose was early enough that I could take my next before 2.
  5. If 12.5/100 twice daily is not causing unwanted sides AND the energy/appetite suppression is not enough increase the caffeine to 200. I know 200 is considered standard but as a smaller person (130-150lb female) that actually likes coffee and can tolerate moderate but not high amounts of caffeine, I still get the desired effects with less and am much more comfortable. There is no need to change anything if less is working.
  6. Another reason not to go too high is that the higher you go while dieting, the more uncomfortable you’re going to be when you stop. Caffeine headaches suck. (that’s assuming you’re not the type to drink coffee/energy drinks all day).

An alternative to ephedrine is yohimbine and caffeine. That has worked very well for me during prep, although there are some limitations to its use.

And with regards to AAS: I have no advice about what or how to use, but if you do choose to use them in the future please try to be as safe and educated as possible. Do your research. Make sure you know the potential risks/sides and are ok with them (not that they will happen, but they can, and they might be permanent) and don’t take a “more is better” approach.

3

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
It sounds like you’re taking waaay too many stims. Not sure about the other sides you’re describing but ephedrine and caffeine can definitely cause insomnia and elevated HR. And lack of sleep + low cals will definitely make you irritable. Not familiar with mega shred…googled it and it looks like its just MCT/Omega 3??

I happen to really like primatene (year round allergies/exercise induced asthma + appetite suppression/energy makes it my #1 choice) and have used it to diet without any major issues.

Reading through your situation my first recommendation is STOP. Stop taking all of your diet supps and do not mess with anything that you don’t take regularly. Get back to normal and if you choose to try the supps again, reintroduce them slowly. The idea is not to take as much of this stuff as you can, rather, you should be to take as little as possible to get the desired results. If a little is good, a shitload is not necessarily better.

If you do decide to try to take ephedrine while dieting this is how I would approach it…

  1. Diet without any stimulants/fat burners/etc for as long as you can.
  2. Start slow: 12.5 ephedrine/100 caff at breakfast. Assess tolerance. (I always preferred to just use my morning coffee as the caffeine source)
  3. Avoid other stimulants. (Don’t drink a pot of coffee in addition to taking caffeine tabs, no pre-workout that has stimulants, etc)
  4. If 12.5/100 isn’t causing any negative sides, take a second at lunch. Just make sure you take your second dose at least 4 hours later. I’ve found that if I take anything after 3 or so, my sleep will be affected. I always tried to make sure my AM dose was early enough that I could take my next before 2.
  5. If 12.5/100 twice daily is not causing unwanted sides AND the energy/appetite suppression is not enough increase the caffeine to 200. I know 200 is considered standard but as a smaller person (130-150lb female) that actually likes coffee and can tolerate moderate but not high amounts of caffeine, I still get the desired effects with less and am much more comfortable. There is no need to change anything if less is working.
  6. Another reason not to go too high is that the higher you go while dieting, the more uncomfortable you’re going to be when you stop. Caffeine headaches suck. (that’s assuming you’re not the type to drink coffee/energy drinks all day).

An alternative to ephedrine is yohimbine and caffeine. That has worked very well for me during prep, although there are some limitations to its use.

And with regards to AAS: I have no advice about what or how to use, but if you do choose to use them in the future please try to be as safe and educated as possible. Do your research. Make sure you know the potential risks/sides and are ok with them (not that they will happen, but they can, and they might be permanent) and don’t take a “more is better” approach. [/quote]

Awesome, thank you for the advice! I don’t ever drink coffee or energy drinks and I stopped taking my preworkout once I started all of this, but yeah, it just felt like too much. I like using supplements cause I’ve tried to cut down just by killing it in the gym and eating clean but I always plateau at around 18-19%, if even that. On my last cut I was stuck there for months, which is why I decided to give my body some time off and just do a few months of maintenance.

Today I tried just the ephedrine and caffeine at breakfast and another caffeine at lunch and it feels a bit better, but I’ll see how it goes when I try to go to sleep tonight. Yesterday I did the same thing and slept slightly better… still took a while to fall asleep but I actually stayed asleep for six or seven hours so that’s progress. But I do agree, just based on how I’m feeling on a lowered dose I think I was just taking way too much too soon.

4

be careful with stimulants, we have seen fatal mistakes here in sweden

5

Another thing–What are you cutting down for? Do you have a specific event like a competition or photo shoot that you need to lean out for or do you just want to maintain at a lower BF?

Disclaimer: I don’t really like to talk BF% because the most common tests (calipers/BIA) aren’t always accurate and prefer to judge weight loss mainly by appearance. I think its a good tool and worth tracking, but I do believe there is a tendency to underestimate or inconsistently measure BF with these methods. (Not saying you are, but it is a common issue to be aware of).

All that being said, 15% is pretty darn lean. Lean enough that it’s unlikely that most women could maintain that comfortably year round. Of course 15% might be nothing for someone who is naturally lean, but for someone that is not built that way, it be very difficult (and possibly harmful) to try to maintain…

To use myself as an example: I competed in women’s physique last year and I took BF readings occasionally. At about 1 month out, it read 15% and closer to show time it read 12%. I was extremely lean. By this time (3-4 weeks out) I not only had abs, but I also had ab veins. I had separation everywhere and in some places striations. I looked great. I was also emotional, exhausted, hungry all the time, suffering from insomnia, and had lost my period. I’m certainly not saying this will happen to you or trying to discourage you. I just wanted to make the point that 15% can certainly be reached, but you might not like what it takes to break through the plateau to get there, let alone try to maintain it, and that’s pretty normal.

Good luck and be safe!

6

[quote]nafnlaus wrote:
be careful with stimulants, we have seen fatal mistakes here in sweden[/quote]

Yeah, that’s why the heightened heart rate had me freaked out the other day. 160-170 bpm because I’m working… sure, okay. When it’s going that fast and I haven’t really been pushing myself, it’s time to be a little concerned.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
Another thing–What are you cutting down for? Do you have a specific event like a competition or photo shoot that you need to lean out for or do you just want to maintain at a lower BF?

Disclaimer: I don’t really like to talk BF% because the most common tests (calipers/BIA) aren’t always accurate and prefer to judge weight loss mainly by appearance. I think its a good tool and worth tracking, but I do believe there is a tendency to underestimate or inconsistently measure BF with these methods. (Not saying you are, but it is a common issue to be aware of).

All that being said, 15% is pretty darn lean. Lean enough that it’s unlikely that most women could maintain that comfortably year round. Of course 15% might be nothing for someone who is naturally lean, but for someone that is not built that way, it be very difficult (and possibly harmful) to try to maintain…

To use myself as an example: I competed in women’s physique last year and I took BF readings occasionally. At about 1 month out, it read 15% and closer to show time it read 12%. I was extremely lean. By this time (3-4 weeks out) I not only had abs, but I also had ab veins. I had separation everywhere and in some places striations. I looked great. I was also emotional, exhausted, hungry all the time, suffering from insomnia, and had lost my period. I’m certainly not saying this will happen to you or trying to discourage you. I just wanted to make the point that 15% can certainly be reached, but you might not like what it takes to break through the plateau to get there, let alone try to maintain it, and that’s pretty normal.

Good luck and be safe!

[/quote]

Right now I’m trying to cut down, for one, because I want to be able to do some fitness modeling as well as compete, and for two, to show myself that I can. I’m never going to be that person who maintains around 14-15% because as you mentioned that’s just not a pleasant way to live as far as I’m concerned. I do want to maintain around 17-18% whenever I’m not gearing up for a contest. By this point I typically only measure bf by appearance anyway for the very reasons you mentioned, but just in case I’m off, basically I just want to be lean enough to have better definition in my quads, abs, and back. I almost have them where I want them as far as leanness goes but I do still have a ways to go, so I figure that that should put me at approximately 17% for maintenance when it’s all said and done.

But, like I said, I want to push myself to that 15% not only so I can feel confident competing but so that I know that my body can get to that point - and that after I do, that 17% will feel more comfortable. When I first started out lifting I was at close to 30%, and when I cut down to around 22-23% and plateaued for the first time, 25% felt pretty easy. When I cut down again to 20%, 22% was comfortable, etc… after I cut down to about 19%, 20% has been a piece of cake to maintain. I like to push past my barriers even if it’s uncomfortable while I’m doing it because I’ve found that it’s more rewarding later on.

So, as long as I’m not experiencing side effects that are really abnormal or unhealthy, I’m okay with it being difficult. I just want to make sure I’m not going through all of it unnecessarily or that it’s getting to the point where it’s counter productive lol. But really, thank you for the advice and perspective! From what I can tell of your avvy your physique looks awesome and it’s very much appreciated to get input from someone who’s been where I want to be.

7

It sounds like you’ve got the right mindset and are taking a reasonable approach then. Awesome! Hope you reach your goal and enjoy competing/modeling.