Elbows in MMA

Training
41

That is a good point About the Human cockfighting" label and fighter longevity. But if that is the argument against kneeing someone to the head, why not make all knees to the head illegal? Let’s face it, a solid knee to the dome is gonna cause some serious trauma, regardless of whether the person is standing or on one knee.

Of course this will change things in MMA and will likely take away some tools from the strikers and make it even more of a grappler’s game, but that’s just the nature of rules. If they allowed downward elbows to the back of the head or spine I bet you’d see quite a bit less double and single leg attempts, especially against the cage, thus puting wrestlers at somewhat of a disadvantage. I guess it depends on what skill sets MMA wants to highlight. Let’s not forget that the Gracie’s were highly involved in the creation of the UFC and proliferation of MMA in general.

42

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]punchedbear wrote:
My fault I brought up the stomps sorry BB.

Elbows are something I have been working on for a little bit and feel I still need to learn more angles to throw them from and disguise them. I used to really only wanna use then from clinching as a quick snap up but you can see fighters really using them well even as lead strikes. Which makes me wonder if there are more ways that are just not being utilized because very few are throwing them right now but that is increasing as things like what Marquardt did start becoming more regular.[/quote]

It’s all good…I had no problem chiming in on that subject. As far as elbows and angles…it’s just drilling it through slow-timing and understanding range. Just put it to practice…and keep it simple. Two common elbow combos that we drill are:

A step-in jab followed by reverse elbow. That can easily be disguised as jab-straight…granted you’re not telegraphing the elbow(notice ppl tend to “cock” the elbow…and leave themselves exposed while jabbing). Just make sure you get feel for the range(by moving your feet!) so that you’re not reaching/over-extending on the reverse elbow.

A jab-lead elbow. Basically its a jab followed by lead elbow set-up in similar mechanics of throwing a double jab OR jab-lead hook. Similar to the Jon Jones gif. Again…drill it to understand the range…and the footwork. It’s not a quick set-up…but easily disguises the elbow.

Drill as much as you can…AND slow. Still get time with someone who can hold pads properly for elbow strikes…but get more time drilling at a more methodical pace. Once you really get a feel for range…you’ll be able to get pretty comfortable timing the elbows without the leading jabs. [/quote]

For the Jab-lead are you saying throw the jab then bring the elbow behind it? I do something similiar with a hook where you just let the elbow come with it and snap it out. Kinda stole it from Freddie Roach who used it as an example on how to throw a hook but I would try to connect with that elbow he said dont because obviously boxing frowns on that.

For elbow practice I like the punching bag. I can really dig it in and feel the strike connect. Amazing how much force you can develop with such a small movement.

43

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
That is a good point About the Human cockfighting" label and fighter longevity. But if that is the argument against kneeing someone to the head, why not make all knees to the head illegal? Let’s face it, a solid knee to the dome is gonna cause some serious trauma, regardless of whether the person is standing or on one knee.
[/quote]

That’s true, but it’s all about perception.

Kneeing a guy when he’s standing gives the perception that he’s got a fighting chance. When he’s down on a knee, or worse, BOTH… well, America historically like John Wayne-style standup fights where guys don’t take cheap shots. Nothing will look more like a cheap shot.

44

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Let’s not forget that the Gracie’s were highly involved in the creation of the UFC and proliferation of MMA in general.[/quote]

And when they were involved all of that and more was legal.

The idea that making and/or keeping elbows legal is important for the sake of “keeping it real” is silly as mma today is far from real. Weight classes, weight cutting, all the rules, judges, etc., make an mma fight far from real. Sure, you can extrapolate certain things to see what might work in the real world but overall an mma fight is just another combat sport.

45

[quote]punchedbear wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]punchedbear wrote:
My fault I brought up the stomps sorry BB.

Elbows are something I have been working on for a little bit and feel I still need to learn more angles to throw them from and disguise them. I used to really only wanna use then from clinching as a quick snap up but you can see fighters really using them well even as lead strikes. Which makes me wonder if there are more ways that are just not being utilized because very few are throwing them right now but that is increasing as things like what Marquardt did start becoming more regular.[/quote]

It’s all good…I had no problem chiming in on that subject. As far as elbows and angles…it’s just drilling it through slow-timing and understanding range. Just put it to practice…and keep it simple. Two common elbow combos that we drill are:

A step-in jab followed by reverse elbow. That can easily be disguised as jab-straight…granted you’re not telegraphing the elbow(notice ppl tend to “cock” the elbow…and leave themselves exposed while jabbing). Just make sure you get feel for the range(by moving your feet!) so that you’re not reaching/over-extending on the reverse elbow.

A jab-lead elbow. Basically its a jab followed by lead elbow set-up in similar mechanics of throwing a double jab OR jab-lead hook. Similar to the Jon Jones gif. Again…drill it to understand the range…and the footwork. It’s not a quick set-up…but easily disguises the elbow.

Drill as much as you can…AND slow. Still get time with someone who can hold pads properly for elbow strikes…but get more time drilling at a more methodical pace. Once you really get a feel for range…you’ll be able to get pretty comfortable timing the elbows without the leading jabs. [/quote]

For the Jab-lead are you saying throw the jab then bring the elbow behind it? I do something similiar with a hook where you just let the elbow come with it and snap it out. Kinda stole it from Freddie Roach who used it as an example on how to throw a hook but I would try to connect with that elbow he said dont because obviously boxing frowns on that.

For elbow practice I like the punching bag. I can really dig it in and feel the strike connect. Amazing how much force you can develop with such a small movement.[/quote]

Yes…think of it as if you’re pumping a double-jab…but on the second “jab” you’re actually going to step in with the lead elbow. Essentially…it’s a step-in jab…followed by another step-in with the lead elbow. You’re trying to give illusion that you’re just throwing a double-jab. This also works for upward elbow off the lead.

As for the heavy bag…yes,learn how that power transfers…but still…get that range/timing training in with a partner with and without pads(slow of course!).

46

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Let’s not forget that the Gracie’s were highly involved in the creation of the UFC and proliferation of MMA in general.[/quote]

And when they were involved all of that and more was legal.

The idea that making and/or keeping elbows legal is important for the sake of “keeping it real” is silly as mma today is far from real. Weight classes, weight cutting, all the rules, judges, etc., make an mma fight far from real. Sure, you can extrapolate certain things to see what might work in the real world but overall an mma fight is just another combat sport. [/quote]

Totally agree about MMA not being real, it’s always been a sport (in every incarnation, save for maybe the Roman Colleseum). But in my opinion the only tactics which should be illegal should be those who’s use would disproportionately increase the chances of serious injury. So things like striking the groin, throat, spine or back of neck should be illegal IMO. Things like stomping the head of a downed opponent should be illegal. But downward elbow strikes? Are those really any more powerful or potentially damaging than hammer fists or standing knees to the head in a Thai clinch?

And my point about the rules favoring certain skill sets still applies to the early UFCs and the Gracie’s. For instance having them on a matted/padded surface makes grappling much more comfortable, and the disallowing or biting or eye attacks also make grappling more effective. But I will agree that those first few tournaments were as close to real fighting as we’re ever going to see in a sanctioned event and the Gracie’s deserve tons of credit for bringing MMA to the states.

47

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]punchedbear wrote:

[quote]Big_Boss wrote:

[quote]punchedbear wrote:
My fault I brought up the stomps sorry BB.

Elbows are something I have been working on for a little bit and feel I still need to learn more angles to throw them from and disguise them. I used to really only wanna use then from clinching as a quick snap up but you can see fighters really using them well even as lead strikes. Which makes me wonder if there are more ways that are just not being utilized because very few are throwing them right now but that is increasing as things like what Marquardt did start becoming more regular.[/quote]

It’s all good…I had no problem chiming in on that subject. As far as elbows and angles…it’s just drilling it through slow-timing and understanding range. Just put it to practice…and keep it simple. Two common elbow combos that we drill are:

A step-in jab followed by reverse elbow. That can easily be disguised as jab-straight…granted you’re not telegraphing the elbow(notice ppl tend to “cock” the elbow…and leave themselves exposed while jabbing). Just make sure you get feel for the range(by moving your feet!) so that you’re not reaching/over-extending on the reverse elbow.

A jab-lead elbow. Basically its a jab followed by lead elbow set-up in similar mechanics of throwing a double jab OR jab-lead hook. Similar to the Jon Jones gif. Again…drill it to understand the range…and the footwork. It’s not a quick set-up…but easily disguises the elbow.

Drill as much as you can…AND slow. Still get time with someone who can hold pads properly for elbow strikes…but get more time drilling at a more methodical pace. Once you really get a feel for range…you’ll be able to get pretty comfortable timing the elbows without the leading jabs. [/quote]

For the Jab-lead are you saying throw the jab then bring the elbow behind it? I do something similiar with a hook where you just let the elbow come with it and snap it out. Kinda stole it from Freddie Roach who used it as an example on how to throw a hook but I would try to connect with that elbow he said dont because obviously boxing frowns on that.

For elbow practice I like the punching bag. I can really dig it in and feel the strike connect. Amazing how much force you can develop with such a small movement.[/quote]

Yes…think of it as if you’re pumping a double-jab…but on the second “jab” you’re actually going to step in with the lead elbow. Essentially…it’s a step-in jab…followed by another step-in with the lead elbow. You’re trying to give illusion that you’re just throwing a double-jab. This also works for upward elbow off the lead.

As for the heavy bag…yes,learn how that power transfers…but still…get that range/timing training in with a partner with and without pads(slow of course!).[/quote]

You can also throw a “spearing elbow” off a jab which will often times slice right through your opponent’s guard (if they’re using a traditional “covering” guard from boxing).

48

Hhhmmm…I’m training tomorrow morning, will try your double jab move. Thanks, BB.

49

Hhhmmm…I’m training tomorrow morning, will try your double jab move. Thanks, BB.

50

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
That is a good point About the Human cockfighting" label and fighter longevity. But if that is the argument against kneeing someone to the head, why not make all knees to the head illegal? Let’s face it, a solid knee to the dome is gonna cause some serious trauma, regardless of whether the person is standing or on one knee.
[/quote]

That’s true, but it’s all about perception.

Kneeing a guy when he’s standing gives the perception that he’s got a fighting chance. When he’s down on a knee, or worse, BOTH… well, America historically like John Wayne-style standup fights where guys don’t take cheap shots. Nothing will look more like a cheap shot.

[/quote]

I’m not sure man. I think stomps and soccer kicks to the head are distasteful (I think they’re awesome too, but that’s just the way my head works).

A knee to the head of a guy on all fours, on the other hand, not so much. In fact I have a tough time differentiating it from one delivered standing (cringe-wise).

Still I see where you’re coming from. It took America and the Westernized world (includes places like Singapore) long enough to accept the idea of two guys hitting each other on the ground. With the sport growing like it is I doubt they’ll legalize anything that could detract from it’s growth.

51

[quote]zecarlo wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Let’s not forget that the Gracie’s were highly involved in the creation of the UFC and proliferation of MMA in general.[/quote]

And when they were involved all of that and more was legal.

The idea that making and/or keeping elbows legal is important for the sake of “keeping it real” is silly as mma today is far from real. Weight classes, weight cutting, all the rules, judges, etc., make an mma fight far from real. Sure, you can extrapolate certain things to see what might work in the real world but overall an mma fight is just another combat sport. [/quote]

Well sure it’s a sport. But it’s a sport whose main draw comes from the dynamism of techniques.

What differentiates it from, say boxing, is that the ruleset allows for more techniques and styles, more to mix and match. I’d rather throw a technique in, than leave it out, especially when there’s no downside to it (public perception, increased health risk etc).