[quote]wfifer wrote:
I can’t speak from the standpoint of a guitarist, since I’m a piss poor player; I just dick around on an acoustic. But I am a musician–a classical pianist–so I know all the subtleties of being a virtuoso.
I am well aware that Yngwie is supposed to be a cocky son of a bitch, so I know he’s not popular in many circles. But I was not aware that his virtuosity was up for debate. You can’t question his ability to play the notes, so is there something the falls short in his phrasing or technique? What can’t he play? [/quote]
Malmsteen is largely known for playing extremely fast. He mixed classical/gothic music with speed metal and kind of created his own unique sound. Highly criticized for his lack of “feeling” and “musicality”. Just play fast seemed to be his motto. Lots of crazy fast scales, arpegio’s, and runs. Yes, he is very good at playing the guitar, but he falls into the category of a guy who plays too many notes and not enough music. I loved his stuff back in the 80’s in my head-banging days. It’s hard to listen to now.
The problem is that lots of guitarist can play like that. Just about every lead guitarist in the 80’s played like that. No doubt he knows what he’s doing, but with him it’s the same thing all the time. Again, we are judging art. It’s subjective. Some people worship him. I find his style of music irritating. I personally wouldn’t put him in the “virtuoso” category.
There are a ton fast dudes playing compared to when VH came out in '78. However, so much of what you here are effects or tricks.
Put an acoustic guitar in the hands of many superstars and it will seem like they can barely play. Put in a classical guitar and take away whammy bar, scales ad nauseum, triplets, & pedals, Most of them would simply not be able to come up (with) a song.
[quote]treco wrote:
There are a ton fast dudes playing compared to when VH came out in '78. However, so much of what you here are effects or tricks.
Put an acoustic guitar in the hands of many superstars and it will seem like they can barely play. Put in a classical guitar and take away whammy bar, scales ad nauseum, triplets, & pedals, Most of them would simply not be able to come up a song.
[/quote]
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
In some of that old Hendrix concert footage it’s a bit comical at times when they pan views of the crowd and while everybody today would be yelling and screaming approval, a lot of them were clearly SCARED!!! Especially at Monterey. They were entirely unprepared for all that auditory violence.[/quote]
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but it could be because they were on hallucinogens.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Mufasa wrote:
Same with Edward. Yea…there is a 15 year old who can do what he does (even though we can debate that)…but how many people were laying down these licks; dropping Bombs; throwing around harmonics like a toy; and completely re-defining Rock Guitaring IN 1980?
I’m gonna ruffle some feathers, but from a technical standpoint Hendrix is maybe the most overrated player in history. However, from the standpoint of innovation he was the most untouchable monster who ever lived and still is.
Many better players have gone before and since, including Van Halen, but Hendrix did a whole lotta “stuff” absolutely first. He reinvented the foundations on which practically all future players would build.
Eddie Van Halen was the next definable step in that evolutionary chain, particularly the first 2 albums. I had to see him live to figure out how he was doing that barrage of harmonics toward the end of somebody get me a doctor. Then of course you smack yourself in the forehead and go “OMG, of course, I would’ve never thought of that” (hammers and pulls while muting the strings with the pick hand)
Just like Hendrix there have been and are better players, but Eddie does indeed deserve his due for innovation.
[/quote]
I think, too, that there’s a difference between how Hendrix played live and how he played on his records. His superior musical skills came out more on record, probably 'cause it was a more controlled environment. On stage, for lack of a better term, all hell broke loose.
The problem with Malmsteen is that he was publicised as a great clasical guitar virtuoso. “Look how fast he can play that classical sounding stuff”. [/quote]
That guy was cheating - using a capo.
My prior post notwithstanding: I love rock guitarists. 700+ CDs
Jimmy Page - sloppy, but how many notes can you play in 3 hour concerts?
Brian Setzer - just can’t play like he does.
Ritchie Blackmore - classical before EM
Santana - recognizable sound for 35
years but… whoa
Clapton - see Santana
[quote]swivel wrote:
one guy that never seems to get his due in these conversations is steve morse. that guy can play anything:
Oh INDEED!!!
The practically unknown master who was voted best overall player 6 years in a row by Guitar Player Magazine in the eighties. I saw him on the all acoustic tour at Gammage Auditorium in Phoenix years ago with Al DiMeola, John Mclaughlin and Paco DeLucia.
Also Saw him at a converted 500 seat movie theater on Long Island. The guy came in through the regular doors with the crowd shaking hands like one of the boys.
He has utterly mastered every style of guitar in existence. Rock, blues, jazz, fusion, bluegrass, country, flamenco, classical and just plain messin around.
Ain’t it funny how a no talent garage hack like Slash can make all that money and a guy like Morse is doing odd side jobs to keep food on the table.
[quote]chewie wrote:
This guy does it on bass and better:
The man:
Back in the day:
More:
If there’s any bass players reading this thread and who viewed the Victor Wooten clip, is he tapping or playing harmonics? The notes sound really high for a bass.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
swivel wrote:
one guy that never seems to get his due in these conversations is steve morse. that guy can play anything:
Oh INDEED!!!
The practically unknown master who was voted best overall player 6 years in a row by Guitar Player Magazine in the eighties. I saw him on the all acoustic tour at Gammage Auditorium in Phoenix years ago with Al DiMeola, John Mclaughlin and Paco DeLucia.
Also Saw him at a converted 500 seat movie theater on Long Island. The guy came in through the regular doors with the crowd shaking hands like one of the boys.
He has utterly mastered every style of guitar in existence. Rock, blues, jazz, fusion, bluegrass, country, flamenco, classical and just plain messin around.
Ain’t it funny how a no talent garage hack like Slash can make all that money and a guy like Morse is doing odd side jobs to keep food on the table.[/quote]
Here’s my pick for Greatest Unheard Guitarist: Mike Slamer from The Seventh Key. I don’t have any clips to show you, but you should see what you can find at melodicrock.com.
By the way, how many of you, after reading this thread, picked up your own guitar and started shredding?
[quote]Marshallman wrote:
<<<I think, too, that there’s a difference between how Hendrix played live and how he played on his records. His superior musical skills came out more on record, probably 'cause it was a more controlled environment. On stage, for lack of a better term, all hell broke loose. >>>
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I concur wholeheartedly. He was a master songwriter and arrangement guy who was light years ahead of his time there too.
My Dad had a two record set that consisted of one clear red and one clear green 12 inch lp that were recorded during the rainbow bridge affair in Hawaii and during the recording of the Cry of Love album which of course was what he was working on when he died. They had no labels and came in 2 pieces of cardboard stapled together.
I don’t remember where he got them, but he was a bass player for 17 years and had lots of contacts. Hendrix was quite dictatorial in the way his studio work was done. He would mouth the drum and bass parts he wanted Mitchell and Redding to play while they were working on the songs for the album. It’s really quite amazing to hear.
That album still sounds like it almost could’ve been released last week. Masterpiece.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
swivel wrote:
one guy that never seems to get his due in these conversations is steve morse. that guy can play anything:
Oh INDEED!!!
The practically unknown master who was voted best overall player 6 years in a row by Guitar Player Magazine in the eighties. I saw him on the all acoustic tour at Gammage Auditorium in Phoenix years ago with Al DiMeola, John Mclaughlin and Paco DeLucia.
Also Saw him at a converted 500 seat movie theater on Long Island. The guy came in through the regular doors with the crowd shaking hands like one of the boys.
He has utterly mastered every style of guitar in existence. Rock, blues, jazz, fusion, bluegrass, country, flamenco, classical and just plain messin around.
Ain’t it funny how a no talent garage hack like Slash can make all that money and a guy like Morse is doing odd side jobs to keep food on the table.[/quote]
Yes, often the best guitarists go unheard. Or, uncredited as a sideman. That’s because song writing skills make you a living, not necessarily proficiency on your instrument. Morse is awesome, but guys like him don’t always fit into “bands”. Take a guy like Jimmy Page. He was a bit sloppy, but he wrote great songs. I think that’s part of what makes a great guitar player. Slash is no Steve Morse, but I wouldn’t call him a no-talented hack. He wrote cool songs, too, and he can burn with the best of his genre.
[quote]Marshallman wrote:
Yes, often the best guitarists go unheard. Or, uncredited as a sideman. That’s because song writing skills make you a living, not necessarily proficiency on your instrument. Morse is awesome, but guys like him don’t always fit into “bands”. Take a guy like Jimmy Page. He was a bit sloppy, but he wrote great songs. I think that’s part of what makes a great guitar player. Slash is no Steve Morse, but I wouldn’t call him a no-talented hack. He wrote cool songs, too, and he can burn with the best of his genre.
[/quote]
Fair points about songwriting and instrumental proficiency. Since you brought up Page before I had a chance to you’re exactly right there too. WAY overrated player, but another killer songwriter and arranger. He was sloppy, even in the studio with stuff that shouldn’t even have been that hard.
Morse is just on that other level.
I can’t understand what you see in Slash or Guns n Roses though. I just cannot stomach them.
On the other hand AC-DC which makes some of the simplest 4 chord drivel ever heard managed to write songs I was almost ashamed to say I liked and Angus did actually improve over time unlike Keith Richards who has the unusual talent of going from barely passable to outright shitty the longer he plays and the more drugs he ingests.
Gawd that was one band I never “got” and never will. I’d rather listen to a truckload of 45 pound plates being dumped down a long cement staircase that have to spend 3 seconds listening to the stones. Gives me the willies just thinkin about it.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Marshallman wrote:
Yes, often the best guitarists go unheard. Or, uncredited as a sideman. That’s because song writing skills make you a living, not necessarily proficiency on your instrument. Morse is awesome, but guys like him don’t always fit into “bands”. Take a guy like Jimmy Page. He was a bit sloppy, but he wrote great songs. I think that’s part of what makes a great guitar player. Slash is no Steve Morse, but I wouldn’t call him a no-talented hack. He wrote cool songs, too, and he can burn with the best of his genre.
Fair points about songwriting and instrumental proficiency. Since you brought up Page before I had a chance to you’re exactly right there too. WAY overrated player, but another killer songwriter and arranger. He was sloppy, even in the studio with stuff that shouldn’t even have been that hard.
Morse is just on that other level.
I can’t understand what you see in Slash or Guns n Roses though. I just cannot stomach them.
On the other hand AC-DC which makes some of the simplest 4 chord drivel ever heard managed to write songs I was almost ashamed to say I liked and Angus did actually improve over time unlike Keith Richards who has the unusual talent of going from barely passable to outright shitty the longer he plays and the more drugs he ingests.
Gawd that was one band I never “got” and never will. I’d rather listen to a truckload of 45 pound plates being dumped down a long cement staircase that have to spend 3 seconds listening to the stones. Gives me the willies just thinkin about it.[/quote]
Herecy! Slamming G&R, AC/DC, AND the Stones in one post. That’s crazy talk. I need to go lie down.
Tony Iomy of Black Sabbath is a great example of a guy with minimal skillz but wrote brilliant songs. Bar chords out the ass and super cheesie solo’s but they worked.
I couldn’t agree more about the Stones. Their music NEVER did a single thing for me.
G’n’R, on the other hand . . . Well, if their tunes don’t get you goin’ you better go get your T-levels checked.
[quote]PGJ wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Marshallman wrote:
Yes, often the best guitarists go unheard. Or, uncredited as a sideman. That’s because song writing skills make you a living, not necessarily proficiency on your instrument. Morse is awesome, but guys like him don’t always fit into “bands”. Take a guy like Jimmy Page. He was a bit sloppy, but he wrote great songs. I think that’s part of what makes a great guitar player. Slash is no Steve Morse, but I wouldn’t call him a no-talented hack. He wrote cool songs, too, and he can burn with the best of his genre.
Fair points about songwriting and instrumental proficiency. Since you brought up Page before I had a chance to you’re exactly right there too. WAY overrated player, but another killer songwriter and arranger. He was sloppy, even in the studio with stuff that shouldn’t even have been that hard.
Morse is just on that other level.
I can’t understand what you see in Slash or Guns n Roses though. I just cannot stomach them.
On the other hand AC-DC which makes some of the simplest 4 chord drivel ever heard managed to write songs I was almost ashamed to say I liked and Angus did actually improve over time unlike Keith Richards who has the unusual talent of going from barely passable to outright shitty the longer he plays and the more drugs he ingests.
Gawd that was one band I never “got” and never will. I’d rather listen to a truckload of 45 pound plates being dumped down a long cement staircase that have to spend 3 seconds listening to the stones. Gives me the willies just thinkin about it.
Herecy! Slamming G&R, AC/DC, AND the Stones in one post. That’s crazy talk. I need to go lie down.
don’t underestimate guys because what they play is “simple”. ac/dc created hit songs again and again using very basic elements and refining them with real rhythmic precision. they are tight. they are solid. and their hits aren’t a flash in a pan or tied to a stylistic era… THEY ENDURE !
