Here is the NPV, IRR, EVA of cycling
Steroid Investment = More Muscle
Business case approved!
How many guys here did an oral only cycle to start??? More than a few I would imagine.
Good luck…
SwampMonster what country do you live in? It almost sounds to me like you’re an Aussie [based on your fear issues with the gov’t]. If you are there’s a few guys on this board you could probably point you in the right direction for some of your needs.
Also as somehwat aforementioned above, while I understand you intent was to analyze the price of an all oral cycle versus what you called natural supplementation, most gearheads would be taking your natural plan in addition to their gear. In fact if you don’t have your nutrition and diet dialed in properly [same goes for your lifting] then gear by itself will actually do very little in the way of making progress.
Might have a little looksie a Furious George’s second cycle thread. He’s using very decent amount of noted and respected injectables but due to various issues [vacation, lack of proper training] his results have been sub-par.
Not trying to brow-beat you here but you mentioned you’d be happy as a clam to gain 20 lbs. Well that is very do-able. Problem with the orals you’ve selected is that you’re unlikely to reach 20lbs on the products you’ve selected. Since you’re using dbol, its fair to assert that roughly half the scale weight you can will be gone 6 weeks after stopping the dbol.
[I suppose I’m trying to soft sell you on the idea that I’m sure the brain-trust here at TNation can find you a safe and secure way to access needles and injectables.]
[quote]sapasion wrote:
[I suppose I’m trying to soft sell you on the idea that I’m sure the brain-trust here at TNation can find you a safe and secure way to access needles and injectables.][/quote]
Nah, I’m from the US. Again, maybe my fears are unwarranted. But I’m a 4th year med student, and IF I happened to be one of the unlucky few (?) that gets that package of injectables delivered by a cop in disguise, my life surely wouldn’t go as planned. Having the illegal use/purchase of controlled substances on my record record wouldnt be the best thing, might even keep me from ever getting the MD. You get the idea. Paper products seem to have zero risk in that regard. If you’d like to address the issue of mailed injectables and the risks and likelihood of legal action, I more than welcome it.
I think a few short cycles of orals would get me where I want to be. Starting off with a cycle of one, either TBol, DBol or anavar. And then later on a stack. Short cycles of 4-6 weeks. And I understand the importance of PCT and diet. I have my diet recorded ounces and calories for the past 3 years.
I know faaar more about nutrition than steroids, its not something thats taught in med school, i’ve only just recently started to learn of them reading all these message boards and I’ve picked up a few books I’m starting to crack open.
[quote]SwampMonster wrote:
sapasion wrote:
[I suppose I’m trying to soft sell you on the idea that I’m sure the brain-trust here at TNation can find you a safe and secure way to access needles and injectables.]
Nah, I’m from the US. Again, maybe my fears are unwarranted. But I’m a 4th year med student, and IF I happened to be one of the unlucky few (?) that gets that package of injectables delivered by a cop in disguise, my life surely wouldn’t go as planned. Having the illegal use/purchase of controlled substances on my record record wouldnt be the best thing, might even keep me from ever getting the MD. You get the idea. Paper products seem to have zero risk in that regard. If you’d like to address the issue of mailed injectables and the risks and likelihood of legal action, I more than welcome it.
I think a few short cycles of orals would get me where I want to be. Starting off with a cycle of one, either TBol, DBol or anavar. And then later on a stack. Short cycles of 4-6 weeks. And I understand the importance of PCT and diet. I have my diet recorded ounces and calories for the past 3 years.
I know faaar more about nutrition than steroids, its not something thats taught in med school, i’ve only just recently started to learn of them reading all these message boards and I’ve picked up a few books I’m starting to crack open. [/quote]
Yeah, I would be kind of hesitant to buy anything stronger than clomid mail order. Don’t you train with any like minded folks? Long before I ever went the AAS route myself, it seemed like every other serious gym freak I knew was on at least some of the time. These are people who know people. I think you would do better getting hooked up through a training partner than some stranger in China.
[quote]Pinto wrote:
SwampMonster wrote:
sapasion wrote:
[I suppose I’m trying to soft sell you on the idea that I’m sure the brain-trust here at TNation can find you a safe and secure way to access needles and injectables.]
Nah, I’m from the US. Again, maybe my fears are unwarranted. But I’m a 4th year med student, and IF I happened to be one of the unlucky few (?) that gets that package of injectables delivered by a cop in disguise, my life surely wouldn’t go as planned. Having the illegal use/purchase of controlled substances on my record record wouldnt be the best thing, might even keep me from ever getting the MD. You get the idea. Paper products seem to have zero risk in that regard. If you’d like to address the issue of mailed injectables and the risks and likelihood of legal action, I more than welcome it.
I think a few short cycles of orals would get me where I want to be. Starting off with a cycle of one, either TBol, DBol or anavar. And then later on a stack. Short cycles of 4-6 weeks. And I understand the importance of PCT and diet. I have my diet recorded ounces and calories for the past 3 years.
I know faaar more about nutrition than steroids, its not something thats taught in med school, i’ve only just recently started to learn of them reading all these message boards and I’ve picked up a few books I’m starting to crack open.
Yeah, I would be kind of hesitant to buy anything stronger than clomid mail order. Don’t you train with any like minded folks? Long before I ever went the AAS route myself, it seemed like every other serious gym freak I knew was on at least some of the time. These are people who know people. I think you would do better getting hooked up through a training partner than some stranger in China.
[/quote]
hah, well I’m not planning on hitting up a stranger in china, rather I’m looking at the cat for paper products.
I lift only with people involved with my hospital/university. I’m sure some of these guys juice, but its not something I can bring up without some risk.
If you’re looking at the Cat for paper products, it would seem that your numbers are off. Are you basing your figures on buying less than suboptimal (from a $/g point of view) quantities?
My calcs:
Dbol $38/g
Winnie $40/g
Anavar $150/g
Clomid $24/g
Tbol $55/g
Going with the Cat is a very smart choice. He’s THE GUY as far as paper anabolics go.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Going with the Cat is a very smart choice. He’s THE GUY as far as paper anabolics go.
[/quote]
well at least we’re in complete agreement on that. I apologize if I got a bit defensive there for a bit. I posted a question on another board about dosage for an OT only cycle and they all went to town on me.
Paper is really my only option like Ive said and from all that I’ve read, the most educated people believe its a perfectly viable option, though an oral only cycle needs a bit of extra care in the realm of warding off liver problems and keeping gains afterwards, but still effective nonetheless.
so do you (any of you that is) have any recommendations for a paper only cycle? I really like the idea of doing cycles of one only before stacking, to help figure out what really works best for me and so I can better tell whats doing what when theyre stacked.
So right now it looks like a Turanabol only cycle, ramping up from 30mg/day (any use in starting lower?) to 50-60/day. Turanabol seems like the best of both worlds between anavar and DBol (as expected considering what it is), and thats exactly what I want (lean, keepable gains).
You may find that tbol doses beyond 40mg/d start to give you trouble with back pumps. But otherwise a good choice. Tbol WILL shut down your HPTA, although it is supposed to be non-aromatising.
When on tbol recently I also experienced anorgasmia. Don’t know if that will be a problem for you, but just letting you know it can happen.