thanks a bunch Eric… I really admire your perspective and knowledge towards athletic performance. I managed to con the football teams orthopedist into checking out my shoulder next week… What sort of things should I ask about? Any suggestions for questions to ask the orthopedist… I’m very interested in getting back to where I can do maximal strength work and want to learn the olympic movements
A couple more additional questions… Would you discorage front squats if they create some light soreness to the acromion side of joint? Would you suggest icing the shoulder after it’s involved in activity? Thanks
He’ll probably want to run an x-ray. AC joints are pretty much slam-dunk diagnoses; he’ll be able to palpate any existing problem and possibly note a piano key sign. Just go in with an open-mind.
[quote]matticus wrote:
thanks a bunch Eric… I really admire your perspective and knowledge towards athletic performance. I managed to con the football teams orthopedist into checking out my shoulder next week… What sort of things should I ask about? Any suggestions for questions to ask the orthopedist… I’m very interested in getting back to where I can do maximal strength work and want to learn the olympic movements[/quote]
[quote]matticus wrote:
A couple more additional questions… Would you discorage front squats if they create some light soreness to the acromion side of joint? [/quote]
Yes; stay away from them. The bar position is notorious for upsetting the AC joint.
Yes; definitely.
Thank you, Eric. Have you heard of doing a scap dip? Read of them a few years ago. Would you suggest these? Just doing a dip motion for a few inches with no elbow movement, as I’m sure you could surmise. What are your thoughts on straight arm pullovers on a high pulley or with a bb or db? Some claim that these will strengthen the retractors and others claim they’ll exacerbate the internal/external rotator imbalance and create the same issue you start with. Thoughts?
DH
Disc Hoss I think what you’re refering to is something also called a dip shrug… Eric and Mike actually have those in the Neanderthal No More… good work for lower trapezius, scapular depression…
All good movements for later on in rehab; you’ve got to groove the activation patterns first, and I’m not particularly fond of the scap dip set-up position when there is rotator cuff irritation already.
[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Thank you, Eric. Have you heard of doing a scap dip? Read of them a few years ago. Would you suggest these? Just doing a dip motion for a few inches with no elbow movement, as I’m sure you could surmise. What are your thoughts on straight arm pullovers on a high pulley or with a bb or db? Some claim that these will strengthen the retractors and others claim they’ll exacerbate the internal/external rotator imbalance and create the same issue you start with. Thoughts?
DH
[/quote]
Eric, I am appealing to your geeky side with this query 
I am working my way through the following joints; ankle, knee, hip, shoulder girdle, glenohumeral; building up a picture of their actions and the muscles involved.
I think I’ve nailed ankle and knee, but the hip is giving me some grief. It seems that whatever resource I turn to, whether it be a book or on the 'net, it seems that getting an accurate picture of what muscles are involved at a joint can be difficult to pin down.
Getting to business on the hip joint, I reviewed your “Get Your Butt In Gear” article and noted the joint actions and muscles.
Looking elsewhere, I have seen these “additional” muscles involved in the following 2 actions:
flexion: TFL, sartorius, pectineus
adduction: pectineus, gracilis
Can you please comment on the muscle involvement of muscles listed against the 2 actions.
I also note that the muscles you listed as being involved in lateral rotation are more comprehensive than I have seen elsewhere, which leads to to think that I expect that it is very difficult to find a definitive text that states which muscles are involed in the various actions.
Have you found this to be the case? Do you just consider the main muscles involved?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Thanks EC, Matticus.
DH
might have missed the boat but I really need some help here… . I get pains in my right shoulder when I do a lot movements like front raises… . even raising my right arm in front of me to flex my bicep causes pain in what I believe is called the acromion something or other… . the pain seems to be at the insertion point roughly between anterior and lateral delts.
I feel like this is severally holding my lifts and overall progress back… . is there any way to accurately diagnose and treat this possible injury?
if it helps it seems that my upper traps on the same side have been overactive for a long time (and are tighter, bigger) and I can see when I do incline curls even with a weight that I can easily do that my right side shoulder raises slightly through the motion when the other side does not. …
We noted both the petineus and gracilis as adductors in the article.
We mentioned the TFL as a hip flexor, but omitted the sartorious and pectineus for brevity because we were talking about the “primary” hip flexors (we did actually note, that the sartorius externally rotated the femur as it contributed to flexion, though). You are correct, though; both contribute.
[quote]flying scotsman wrote:
Getting to business on the hip joint, I reviewed your “Get Your Butt In Gear” article and noted the joint actions and muscles.
Looking elsewhere, I have seen these “additional” muscles involved in the following 2 actions:
flexion: TFL, sartorius, pectineus
adduction: pectineus, gracilis
Can you please comment on the muscle involvement of muscles listed against the 2 actions.[/quote]
Most texts will simply say “the six deep lateral rotators;” we listed out the piriformis, obturator internus and externus, gemelli superior and inferior, and quadratus femoris." It really depends on who you ask; some won’t go into great detail.
[quote]I also note that the muscles you listed as being involved in lateral rotation are more comprehensive than I have seen elsewhere, which leads to to think that I expect that it is very difficult to find a definitive text that states which muscles are involed in the various actions.
Have you found this to be the case? Do you just consider the main muscles involved?
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
[/quote]
Ice it like crazy; do loads of external rotations, rows, and prone trap raises; drop benching, pullups, pulldowns, lateral raises, and overhead pressing for at least three weeks; and up your fish oil dosage to 6g combined EPA/DHA per day. Get some ART if you have access, and gradually begin to integrate gentle stretching for the entire shoulder region if it doesn’t hurt.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
might have missed the boat but I really need some help here… . I get pains in my right shoulder when I do a lot movements like front raises… . even raising my right arm in front of me to flex my bicep causes pain in what I believe is called the acromion something or other… . the pain seems to be at the insertion point roughly between anterior and lateral delts.
I feel like this is severally holding my lifts and overall progress back… . is there any way to accurately diagnose and treat this possible injury?
if it helps it seems that my upper traps on the same side have been overactive for a long time (and are tighter, bigger) and I can see when I do incline curls even with a weight that I can easily do that my right side shoulder raises slightly through the motion when the other side does not. …[/quote]
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Ice it like crazy; do loads of external rotations, rows, and prone trap raises; drop benching, pullups, pulldowns, lateral raises, and overhead pressing for at least three weeks; and up your fish oil dosage to 6g combined EPA/DHA per day. Get some ART if you have access, and gradually begin to integrate gentle stretching for the entire shoulder region if it doesn’t hurt.
[/quote]
what kind of stretching do you recommend… . theres no shoulder stretches I currently know that I cant do atm due to pain. …
yeah I was thinking of dropping bench for awhile and using dips exclusively for tricep and chest work… . so thats a big can do… . Im currently getting about 3g of EFA’s a day would another 3 just help that much more?
thanks for your input its appreciated. …
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
what kind of stretching do you recommend… . theres no shoulder stretches I currently know that I cant do atm due to pain. …[/quote]
See Mike Robertson’s “Hardcore Stretching: Part II” article and focus on the pecs, lats, anterior delts, subscapularis, upper traps, and levator scapulae.
Don’t do it; three weeks won’t kill you.
In my opinion, yes. Look at the clinical trials and you’ll see that they top even that (9g combined for rheumatoid arthritis benefits).
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Gl;itch.e wrote:
what kind of stretching do you recommend… . theres no shoulder stretches I currently know that I cant do atm due to pain. …
See Mike Robertson’s “Hardcore Stretching: Part II” article and focus on the pecs, lats, anterior delts, subscapularis, upper traps, and levator scapulae.
yeah I was thinking of dropping bench for awhile and using dips exclusively for tricep and chest work… .
Don’t do it; three weeks won’t kill you.
Im currently getting about 3g of EFA’s a day would another 3 just help that much more?
In my opinion, yes. Look at the clinical trials and you’ll see that they top even that (9g combined for rheumatoid arthritis benefits).[/quote]
cool… . yeah Ill re-read that article and pull out the stretches you recommend… . as you might have guessed from my condition my right side pec is also overactive in pulling my shoulder blades forward. …
what? so no dips either? wah wah… . I guinely dont find any discomfort or feel any exaccerbation to the shoulder after those though. …
allright… . Ill go out and stock up on some more fish oil caps… . I guess the prescription is for a higher dose for that same 3 week stretch? or do you recommend that 6g level as standard?
Just in situations where inflammation is an issue.
[quote]Gl;itch.e wrote:
allright… . Ill go out and stock up on some more fish oil caps… . I guess the prescription is for a higher dose for that same 3 week stretch? or do you recommend that 6g level as standard?[/quote]