Eating Unhealthy to Meet Calorie Goals

Nutrition
161

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain

162

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

so me eating 2lbs worth of double cheeseburger patties from Mc Donalds every day for a year will have the same effect on my body that eating 2lbs worth of Grass Fed Free Range Beef?[/quote]

What do you mean by “effect”? If the question is will you gain the same amount of muscle if all factors are the same other than who made the damn sandwich, the answer is YES.

Why combine “health” and “bodybuilding” like this as if there is no line?

Why would you gain muscle differently if all factors as far as caloric intake and macronutrient profile are the same?[/quote]

Because APPARENTLY macronutrient ratios are not all that matter.

Why do you insist on doing this. You have obviously never eaten the way greg is talking about. How in the world can you KNOW it’s not superior.

I see that youre asking a question here. It sounds like a rhetorical question, but if it’s not, then ignore this and read John Meadow’s stuff. There are a few other guys writing about this but I dont think I can mention their names here for whatever reason.

163

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

so me eating 2lbs worth of double cheeseburger patties from Mc Donalds every day for a year will have the same effect on my body that eating 2lbs worth of Grass Fed Free Range Beef?[/quote]

What do you mean by “effect”? If the question is will you gain the same amount of muscle if all factors are the same other than who made the damn sandwich, the answer is YES.

Why combine “health” and “bodybuilding” like this as if there is no line?

Why would you gain muscle differently if all factors as far as caloric intake and macronutrient profile are the same?[/quote]

Because APPARENTLY macronutrient ratios are not all that matter.

Why do you insist on doing this. You have obviously never eaten the way greg is talking about. How in the world can you KNOW it’s not superior.

I see that youre asking a question here. It sounds like a rhetorical question, but if it’s not, then ignore this and read John Meadow’s stuff. There are a few other guys writing about this but I dont think I can mention their names here for whatever reason. [/quote]

?

I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.

164

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain[/quote]

Well said.

165

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.
[/quote]

Body comp is important because if you’re weight is staying the same and you’re getting quite visibly leaner then you’re body is obviously putting on muscle while burning fat (as in my own experience)

166

Virgin coconut oil is the bomb just saying I will use that forever

167

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain[/quote]

This post has another flaw.

You are assuming that you cant have an ideal macro ratio in addition to a caloric surplus WHILE eating good food.

It can easily be done. In fact, less calories are required when one starts eating better food. THat sort of blows your theory right the fuck up that amount of calories is the most important.

I dont know why you are assuming that the person who eats the occasional fast food burger is better off. Grass fed beef comes in ground form and can be made into a burger.

Youre really grabbing at straws here and I think it’s beacuse you have no experience with this sort of thing. Youre making a shit ton of baseless assumptions.

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder. I cant imagine how you can think that because food is HIGHER quality that it will lead to WORSE gains. THat is unbelivably counterintuitive.

PLease take a step back from the dogma and really think about that for a second.

168

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Virgin coconut oil is the bomb just saying I will use that forever[/quote]

Do you put it in your shakes? So good! Banana, oats, chocolate whey, VCO, water/ice. Delicious

169

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.
[/quote]

Body comp is important because if you’re weight is staying the same and you’re getting quite visibly leaner then you’re body is obviously putting on muscle while burning fat (as in my own experience)[/quote]

In this case this does count as muscle gains but its also not the way to build muscle the fastest

170

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

so me eating 2lbs worth of double cheeseburger patties from Mc Donalds every day for a year will have the same effect on my body that eating 2lbs worth of Grass Fed Free Range Beef?[/quote]

What do you mean by “effect”? If the question is will you gain the same amount of muscle if all factors are the same other than who made the damn sandwich, the answer is YES.

Why combine “health” and “bodybuilding” like this as if there is no line?

Why would you gain muscle differently if all factors as far as caloric intake and macronutrient profile are the same?[/quote]

Because APPARENTLY macronutrient ratios are not all that matter.

Why do you insist on doing this. You have obviously never eaten the way greg is talking about. How in the world can you KNOW it’s not superior.

I see that youre asking a question here. It sounds like a rhetorical question, but if it’s not, then ignore this and read John Meadow’s stuff. There are a few other guys writing about this but I dont think I can mention their names here for whatever reason. [/quote]

?

I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.

[/quote]

Muscle gain IS body comp you clown. WHat you just posted has nothing to do with my post.

I didnt expect you to be able to answer it because you are just assuming that your way is the only way without having tried any other way. And dont tell me that eating a tub of MAG-10 per day is ‘trying a different way’

171

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is, would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros in identical percentages produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

I dont personally eat they way Id like to all the time because I can afford it but the idea that REAL food (read: as natural and unprocessed as realistically possible) doesnt make a difference is complete bullshit.

You clearly havent devoted any significant period of time to eating they way gregron is talking about. And since youll likely come back at this, significant = 6 months + [/quote]
First off,the 6 month thing is irrelevant as I don’t plan to use myself as a case study for this.
Second, you missed the point of my post completely but let me help you.

I was not comparing a grass fed steak to a chicken nugget as I stated. I compared identical macro-nutrient intake of organic food to inorganic food. The only difference it the added chemicals in the non-organic food.

In this situation the LBM gains will be the same.

172

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.
[/quote]

Body comp is important because if you’re weight is staying the same and you’re getting quite visibly leaner then you’re body is obviously putting on muscle while burning fat (as in my own experience)[/quote]

And you are far from the only one experiencing this.

173

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is, would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros in identical percentages produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

I dont personally eat they way Id like to all the time because I can afford it but the idea that REAL food (read: as natural and unprocessed as realistically possible) doesnt make a difference is complete bullshit.

You clearly havent devoted any significant period of time to eating they way gregron is talking about. And since youll likely come back at this, significant = 6 months + [/quote]
First off,the 6 month thing is irrelevant as I don’t plan to use myself as a case study for this.
Second, you missed the point of my post completely but let me help you.

I was not comparing a grass fed steak to a chicken nugget as I stated. I compared identical macro-nutrient intake of organic food to inorganic food. The only difference it the added chemicals in the non-organic food.

In this situation the LBM gains will be the same.

[/quote]

You are wrong. And you copped out by stating you dont plan to try it. So basically your post is useless.

Sound like a god dammed 6 year old on a play ground with his fingers in his ears screaming at the top of his lungs

174

I still feel for the most part…in terms of HOW you LOOK…as long as the macros are the same and calories are the same…it wouldn’t make much, if any difference in your physique between “clean” or “unclean” food.

Health may be a different story entirely…but, as pointed out previously, health is not what this is about.

Again…if you take into account the macros/calories…it shouldn’t make that much of a difference. That doesn’t mean go out and purposely eat ALL “unclean” food…it does mean that as long as it fits into my macros the same, it isn’t going to make or break my physique to eat a cheeseburger tonight. As long as cals/macros are the same at the end of the day.

175

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

so me eating 2lbs worth of double cheeseburger patties from Mc Donalds every day for a year will have the same effect on my body that eating 2lbs worth of Grass Fed Free Range Beef?[/quote]

What do you mean by “effect”? If the question is will you gain the same amount of muscle if all factors are the same other than who made the damn sandwich, the answer is YES.

Why combine “health” and “bodybuilding” like this as if there is no line?

Why would you gain muscle differently if all factors as far as caloric intake and macronutrient profile are the same?[/quote]

Because APPARENTLY macronutrient ratios are not all that matter.

Why do you insist on doing this. You have obviously never eaten the way greg is talking about. How in the world can you KNOW it’s not superior.

I see that youre asking a question here. It sounds like a rhetorical question, but if it’s not, then ignore this and read John Meadow’s stuff. There are a few other guys writing about this but I dont think I can mention their names here for whatever reason. [/quote]

?

I can’t even get what you are talking about here. We are discussing MUSCLE GAINS, not BODY COMP.

[/quote]

Muscle gain IS body comp you clown. WHat you just posted has nothing to do with my post.

I didnt expect you to be able to answer it because you are just assuming that your way is the only way without having tried any other way. And dont tell me that eating a tub of MAG-10 per day is ‘trying a different way’[/quote]

Clown? Body comp is NOT about gaining MUSCLE the fastest.

Any more names before you realize that you aren’t speaking to someone clueless about this?

176

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder.[/quote]

wait, so no sane bodybuilder has EVER had a phase where the primary goal was gaining muscle at the expense of some fat gains?

177

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain[/quote]

This post has another flaw.

You are assuming that you cant have an ideal macro ratio in addition to a caloric surplus WHILE eating good food.

It can easily be done. In fact, less calories are required when one starts eating better food. THat sort of blows your theory right the fuck up that amount of calories is the most important.

I dont know why you are assuming that the person who eats the occasional fast food burger is better off. Grass fed beef comes in ground form and can be made into a burger.

Youre really grabbing at straws here and I think it’s beacuse you have no experience with this sort of thing. Youre making a shit ton of baseless assumptions.

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder. I cant imagine how you can think that because food is HIGHER quality that it will lead to WORSE gains. THat is unbelivably counterintuitive.

PLease take a step back from the dogma and really think about that for a second. [/quote]

Holy are you going to be ok? This is a discussion so discuss dont get so offensive, how old are you?

Im not going to argue with you because i dont even believe half the things you say I said and believe, your just putting words in my mouth so theres little use arguing with you

178

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Virgin coconut oil is the bomb just saying I will use that forever[/quote]

Do you put it in your shakes? So good! Banana, oats, chocolate whey, VCO, water/ice. Delicious [/quote]

yes i do sometimes but i cook my eggs in it and damn i actually enjoy eating eggs again!

plus it absorbs a lot faster then other fat sources so you can use it on a lower carb diet and not feel like shit lol love that stuff

also Goji 100 - juice, take that and youl feel amazing

179

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder.[/quote]

wait, so no sane bodybuilder has EVER had a phase where the primary goal was gaining muscle at the expense of some fat gains?[/quote]

Im sure you know what the definition of a strawman is. I sure do. Why even bother using them with me?

If you tell a bodybuilder that he can make gains without having to sacrifice his desired bodycompostion he will take that option 100 times out of 100. No one WANTS to add fat. No one.

If someone genuinely enjoys eating fast food every now and then, like I do, they should do that. But to posit that by adding fat you are somehow doing yourself a favor in terms of muscle gains is simply foolish based on the nutritional information avaiable in 2011.

180

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Virgin coconut oil is the bomb just saying I will use that forever[/quote]

Do you put it in your shakes? So good! Banana, oats, chocolate whey, VCO, water/ice. Delicious [/quote]

yes i do sometimes but i cook my eggs in it and damn i actually enjoy eating eggs again!

plus it absorbs a lot faster then other fat sources so you can use it on a lower carb diet and not feel like shit lol love that stuff

also Goji 100 - juice, take that and youl feel amazing[/quote]

Yeah I cook all my eggs in VCO and love it. Thought it might be a little weird tasting but it’s really good. I eat about a dozen eggs a day on most days