Eating Unhealthy to Meet Calorie Goals

Nutrition
181

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain[/quote]

This post has another flaw.

You are assuming that you cant have an ideal macro ratio in addition to a caloric surplus WHILE eating good food.

It can easily be done. In fact, less calories are required when one starts eating better food. THat sort of blows your theory right the fuck up that amount of calories is the most important.

I dont know why you are assuming that the person who eats the occasional fast food burger is better off. Grass fed beef comes in ground form and can be made into a burger.

Youre really grabbing at straws here and I think it’s beacuse you have no experience with this sort of thing. Youre making a shit ton of baseless assumptions.

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder. I cant imagine how you can think that because food is HIGHER quality that it will lead to WORSE gains. THat is unbelivably counterintuitive.

PLease take a step back from the dogma and really think about that for a second. [/quote]

Holy are you going to be ok? This is a discussion so discuss dont get so offensive, how old are you?

Im not going to argue with you because i dont even believe half the things you say I said and believe, your just putting words in my mouth so theres little use arguing with you

[/quote]

What could I possibly have said there that’s offensive? Man up dude.

182

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
BULL FUCKING SHIT.

I dont personally eat they way Id like to all the time because I can afford it but the idea that REAL food (read: as natural and unprocessed as realistically possible) doesnt make a difference is complete bullshit.

You clearly havent devoted any significant period of time to eating they way gregron is talking about. And since youll likely come back at this, significant = 6 months + [/quote]
First off,the 6 month thing is irrelevant as I don’t plan to use myself as a case study for this.
Second, you missed the point of my post completely but let me help you.

I was not comparing a grass fed steak to a chicken nugget as I stated. I compared identical macro-nutrient intake of organic food to inorganic food. The only difference it the added chemicals in the non-organic food.

In this situation the LBM gains will be the same.
[/quote]
You are wrong. And you copped out by stating you dont plan to try it. So basically your post is useless.
Sound like a god dammed 6 year old on a play ground with his fingers in his ears screaming at the top of his lungs[/quote]
Really? You start off by telling me that since I haven’t tried it for 6+ months I wouldn’t know and that is your argument winner? And I am the 6 year old?

How about a scientific study to prove your point?

You have an OPINION on this just like everyone else.
I realize you think highly of yourself but that doesn’t make your opinions facts.

183

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder.[/quote]

wait, so no sane bodybuilder has EVER had a phase where the primary goal was gaining muscle at the expense of some fat gains?[/quote]

Im sure you know what the definition of a strawman is. I sure do. Why even bother using them with me?
[/quote]

What? You just wrote that. What strawman?

I’m done here with you. You aren’t even making sense and jumping into the thread with the name calling for no reason is just ridiculous especially since it lasted this many pages without it. you brought the negativity.

You just wrote that and I just quoted it…but apparently that is now a “strawman”.

Wow.

[quote]
If you tell a bodybuilder that he can make gains without having to sacrifice his desired bodycompostion he will take that option 100 times out of 100. No one WANTS to add fat. No one.[/quote]

Gee, we aren’t talking about just “making gains”. We are talking about maiking the most gains possible in a given amount of time. Two completely different issues. Maybe you will see that one day when you stop calling people who went to school for this “clowns”.

184

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant. [/quote]

That wasnt at all what I was trying to say actually but I can see how you thought that after i re read this. I meant that all people do not gain muscle equally. However your talking about from a bodybuilding perspective which Im not sure what that entails? I was talking stricly about muscle gain, I mentioned before that if you follow a diet such as gregrons that you will LOOK and FEEL better but will not give you more muscle as oposed to someone who eats a burger here and there. I am in no way saying eat doughnuts and shit all the time and eat only mcdonolds all day. However what causes more muscle to grow is surplus of calories and proper macronutrients this takes precedent over nutrient timing and food choice in terms of maximum muscle gain[/quote]

This post has another flaw.

You are assuming that you cant have an ideal macro ratio in addition to a caloric surplus WHILE eating good food.

It can easily be done. In fact, less calories are required when one starts eating better food. THat sort of blows your theory right the fuck up that amount of calories is the most important.

I dont know why you are assuming that the person who eats the occasional fast food burger is better off. Grass fed beef comes in ground form and can be made into a burger.

Youre really grabbing at straws here and I think it’s beacuse you have no experience with this sort of thing. Youre making a shit ton of baseless assumptions.

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder. I cant imagine how you can think that because food is HIGHER quality that it will lead to WORSE gains. THat is unbelivably counterintuitive.

PLease take a step back from the dogma and really think about that for a second. [/quote]

Holy are you going to be ok? This is a discussion so discuss dont get so offensive, how old are you?

Im not going to argue with you because i dont even believe half the things you say I said and believe, your just putting words in my mouth so theres little use arguing with you

[/quote]

What could I possibly have said there that’s offensive? Man up dude. [/quote]

I no where said that a person eating fast food would be better off all I was talking about is that if people eat foods such as burgers pizza etc, HERE AND THERE there muscle gains are not going to be limited because of that. THATS IT

185

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:
Virgin coconut oil is the bomb just saying I will use that forever[/quote]

Do you put it in your shakes? So good! Banana, oats, chocolate whey, VCO, water/ice. Delicious [/quote]

yes i do sometimes but i cook my eggs in it and damn i actually enjoy eating eggs again!

plus it absorbs a lot faster then other fat sources so you can use it on a lower carb diet and not feel like shit lol love that stuff

also Goji 100 - juice, take that and youl feel amazing[/quote]

Yeah I cook all my eggs in VCO and love it. Thought it might be a little weird tasting but it’s really good. I eat about a dozen eggs a day on most days [/quote]

Thats funny because i was terrified to try eggs in coco oil aswell I almost didnt even do it.

I was also afriad to try derek poundstones chicken shake - that is disgusting you are a MAN if you can drink that and keep it down

and drinking egg whites raw - this is like drinking salty water its not bad at all

186

Do you have any pictures or stats Jlone? You’ve got a lot of opinions (as we all do) but what proof do you have that backs up your philosophies?

187

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

OK…so do you understand that your body is likely to use more protein AS fuel instead of using it build more muscle unless the overall calories and even carbs are substantial?

Do you understand that you could possibly grow MORE by taking in less protein if the other two variables are increased?

Some of the fastest gains I ever made were in college with NO protein supplements eating what most of you would call “junk”.

How is that possible if the “amino acid profile” is the most important aspect of making muscular gains?[/quote]

I never said it was ‘all important’ but clearly it is a factor.

And who said because it’s organic it’s not being served with carbs? Or in a high portion? I don’t understand why you made that first point.

If people also considered what this kind of food is doing to their digestive system, just for example on the MDD your system will be healthier and this able to process more more nutrients.

188

[quote]MAsteve wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

OK…so do you understand that your body is likely to use more protein AS fuel instead of using it build more muscle unless the overall calories and even carbs are substantial?

Do you understand that you could possibly grow MORE by taking in less protein if the other two variables are increased?

Some of the fastest gains I ever made were in college with NO protein supplements eating what most of you would call “junk”.

How is that possible if the “amino acid profile” is the most important aspect of making muscular gains?[/quote]

I never said it was ‘all important’ but clearly it is a factor.

And who said because it’s organic it’s not being served with carbs? Or in a high portion? I don’t understand why you made that first point.

If people also considered what this kind of food is doing to their digestive system, just for example on the MDD your system will be healthier and this able to process more more nutrients.

[/quote]

With the organic and carbs part are you implying anything about insulin being spiked do to high GI carbs? If your not Im sorry just asking

189

[quote]gregron wrote:
Do you have any pictures or stats Jlone? You’ve got a lot of opinions (as we all do) but what proof do you have that backs up your philosophies?[/quote]

x2

190

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder.[/quote]

wait, so no sane bodybuilder has EVER had a phase where the primary goal was gaining muscle at the expense of some fat gains?[/quote]

Im sure you know what the definition of a strawman is. I sure do. Why even bother using them with me?

If you tell a bodybuilder that he can make gains without having to sacrifice his desired bodycompostion he will take that option 100 times out of 100. No one WANTS to add fat. No one.

If someone genuinely enjoys eating fast food every now and then, like I do, they should do that. But to posit that by adding fat you are somehow doing yourself a favor in terms of muscle gains is simply foolish based on the nutritional information avaiable in 2011. [/quote]

This is what I was trying to say lol.

191

[quote]gregron wrote:
Do you have any pictures or stats Jlone? You’ve got a lot of opinions (as we all do) but what proof do you have that backs up your philosophies?[/quote]
Here is my RMP:

Would be happy to have your opinion post and rating.

192

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
Do you have any pictures or stats Jlone? You’ve got a lot of opinions (as we all do) but what proof do you have that backs up your philosophies?[/quote]
Here is my RMP:

Would be happy to have your opinion post and rating.

EDIT
Just flipped through it and it looks like you already posted.
I will try to get updated pictures on it soon so you can judge weather my progress is up to snuff. [/quote]

hhaha i was just going to say “Hey I posted in that thread” lol.

Looking much better now. From what I see and what you’re goals are I think you are a PERFECT candidate for the diet style that I’ve been advocating in this thread lol.

Seriously though… I think you’d see some pretty drastic changes rather quickly… just sayin.

193

I’m just wondering how anybody could have possibly put on any muscle over the past 40 years before ‘organic grass fed farm animal’ came into vogue…

194

I personally haven’t tried the MDD yet.

But I’m hoping everyone whose saying it doesn’t work has tried it themselves. If not, that’s no different than a 150lb skinny dude saying he knows lifting heavy isn’t the key to muscle growth because he’s bench pressed before.

195

[quote]scj119 wrote:
I personally haven’t tried the MDD yet.

But I’m hoping everyone whose saying it doesn’t work has tried it themselves. If not, that’s no different than a 150lb skinny dude saying he knows lifting heavy isn’t the key to muscle growth because he’s bench pressed before.[/quote]

Who said a diet “doesn’t work”?

196

[quote]MAsteve wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

OK…so do you understand that your body is likely to use more protein AS fuel instead of using it build more muscle unless the overall calories and even carbs are substantial?

Do you understand that you could possibly grow MORE by taking in less protein if the other two variables are increased?

Some of the fastest gains I ever made were in college with NO protein supplements eating what most of you would call “junk”.

How is that possible if the “amino acid profile” is the most important aspect of making muscular gains?[/quote]

I never said it was ‘all important’ but clearly it is a factor.

And who said because it’s organic it’s not being served with carbs? Or in a high portion? I don’t understand why you made that first point.

If people also considered what this kind of food is doing to their digestive system, just for example on the MDD your system will be healthier and this able to process more more nutrients.

[/quote]

? You said “amino acid profile” = better muscle fuel. Your body gains muscle due to how it assimilates protein (largely a genetic issue), not just due to the protein you eat. That is why someone who doesn’t even supplement protein could still grow faster than someone taking the highest quality protein known to man.

I was talking about this yesterday with a friend of mine from Nigeria…who never used anything but food, only eats one time a day, never drank a protein shake…but has arms closing in on 18" (if not already there) at 210lbs with no more than maybe 12% body fat.

Your gains in muscle mass are a tad more complicated than just “amino acid profile” which was the point being made.

197

[quote]MAsteve wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

And when I referenced ‘bodybuilding’ I meant gaining as much muscle as possible with as little fat as possible. The goal of any sane bodybuilder.[/quote]

wait, so no sane bodybuilder has EVER had a phase where the primary goal was gaining muscle at the expense of some fat gains?[/quote]

Im sure you know what the definition of a strawman is. I sure do. Why even bother using them with me?

If you tell a bodybuilder that he can make gains without having to sacrifice his desired bodycompostion he will take that option 100 times out of 100. No one WANTS to add fat. No one.

If someone genuinely enjoys eating fast food every now and then, like I do, they should do that. But to posit that by adding fat you are somehow doing yourself a favor in terms of muscle gains is simply foolish based on the nutritional information avaiable in 2011. [/quote]

This is what I was trying to say lol. [/quote]

? Who said that adding fat AIDS or “does a favor in terms of” muscle gains? That isn’t the point that ANYONE HERE is making.

198

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’m just wondering how anybody could have possibly put on any muscle over the past 40 years before ‘organic grass fed farm animal’ came into vogue…[/quote]

up until pretty recently (probably within the last 50 years or so) ALL animals WERE organic and grass fed lol.

199

[quote]Professor X wrote:
fat AIDS.[/quote]

is that worse than normal AIDS?

200

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
I’m just wondering how anybody could have possibly put on any muscle over the past 40 years before ‘organic grass fed farm animal’ came into vogue…[/quote]

up until pretty recently (probably within the last 50 years or so) ALL animals WERE organic and grass fed lol.[/quote]

That’s what I’m sayin. (probably further back than that correlating with US Gov’t “corn subsidies”.

I grew up in a family that owned a ‘meat market Italian deli’ for about 50 years (2 generations). The quote under the name was “The Meat People” lol.

I remember as a kid going to the slaughter house while Pops picked out the the steers that were raised next door in the fields.

Because of growing up in a meat store, I’m pretty particular about the meat I eat, stay away from certain brands, know how to trace back meat to suppliers, etc. I’ve not bought food (ie. perishable food) from stores before because I’ve seen subtle things, like in the meat case that spell horror.

I’ve grilled up steaks side by side “grass fed” and “regular” – honestly, I didn’t notice enough difference to warrant switching 100% to one vs the other. If I had my way, I’d buy a whole animal for slaughter from a local butcher only to save on the money. If cost were not a factor, I’d go for the ‘better stuff’. I’m not paying for the marketing hype and markup of “certified organic” (which is a load of shit much of the time anyway).

Same with the Omega-3 eggs. The cost is bullshit. I’ll buy eggs from a local farm for cheaper, but 90% of the other time, I’m going for “Jumbo Eggs”. I get my omegas from other suppliments which I’m going to take anyway. The eggs I buy are raised local (humane) anyway (read: not mass brand produced), so not real worried about it.

I’m going mostly for ‘best protein price per pound’.