Eating Unhealthy to Meet Calorie Goals

Nutrition
141

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^I just flat out don’t beleive that.

Quality foods/calories (MDD style) will do more for your physique than processed fast foods. That’s not even debatable IMO[/quote]

Do more like what? What is “grass fed beef” doing for my muscle gains specifically that regular beef ins’t?[/quote]

This is just from my personal experience… Since changing up my food choices I have seen great results. I’ve upped my carbs/fats, lowered my protein slightly, cals are roughly the same and I have gotten more muscular, stronger and leaner while keeping my training the same. I feel better too. I used to have stomach issues and bad gas, that is all gone as well.

I don’t expect people to believe me because I say so. I was skeptical at first too but after actually trying it out I’ve seen the results and I’m a believer.[/quote]

I think a big part of the difference is the fact it’s much harder to hit your macros accurately from fast food type sources.

When you’re at home and you just want to increase your protein you can simply eat some lean meat while taking in immaterial amounts of fat/carbs.

If you are trying to up your protein from the average fast food place, you will have no choice but to up your carbs/fat a decent amount in the process.

[/quote]

It seems the concept of trying to grow as fast as possible is one that some of you are ignoring.[/quote]

This.

I just spent the last 4 years EATING (and lifting a.h.a.p. of course). I put on some fat, no doubt. After 3+ weeks of cutting carbs (mostly) and adding some cardio, I’m already seeing vascularity in places I didn’t 4 years ago. Strength is holding.

Was my diet immaculate? NOPE. Have I met most of my size/strength goals I’ve (aggressively) set over 4 years? YEP.

So now I spent a couple/few months dialing in the diet a bit, re-comp a bit, then set some new goals.

Point? I wanted size/strength NOW (too busy and old to fuck around)

YEARS to gain/retain muscle. Weeks (4-16) to diet it off or recomp (and still retain gains). Why would I want to torture myself by restricting gains? I’d sooner quit altogether.

Summary:

  • I don’t feel horrible.
  • I have a higher tolerance to ‘fat’ (given consistent size/strength progress) than most of the apparent ab models in this forum
  • I’m relatively healthy
  • I’m not miserable about my diet
  • I mostly enjoy the food that keeps me going
  • I have mental strength to give up ‘junk’ when I need to
  • I can make adjustments when needed
  • A cheeseburger never set me back.
  • Even in a recomp, there is room for a goddammed cheeseburger.

Just think if the young guys spent 4 years BALLS TO THE WALL ALL OUT GAINING. This board would be full of big dudes. Then spent a little time dieting back down. None of the “I’ve been lifting 11 years to look like a marathon runner” bullshit.

142

^the bad thing…most of these guys are “too old to fuck around” even if they are in their 20’s given their approach.

they seem to still think they have forever to make progress.

Like has been said, if your goal is “huge”, you had better be pretty fucking swole by 25. The gains don’t come faster after that.

Ideal would be forcing that food down as a teenager and then refining all of that basic mass built after that.

This is about what builds the biggest muscles the fastest.

If anyone wants to argue what makes you look the best, All I’m eating today is chicken breasts and rice and protein. That doesn’t mean i would eat like that if my goal was great muscle gains.

143

EDIT: this post was addressing Steelys last post

^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?

We already established (according to everyone but me apparently lol) that the muscle gain is the same.

144

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?

We already established (according to everyone but me apparently lol) that the muscle gain is the same. [/quote]

My goal is to gain as fast as possible when bulking up. That usually means a very high caloric intake.

I also do not agree with the people claiming you can’t force gains…because they ignore that you CAN hold gains back.

Your body doesn’t give a shit how you look. There are going to be periods where it will literally gain really fast…and then lulls in progress. If you are eating less when it is ready to grow more, you will hold back progress.

That is the concept some of you are missing.

There is no fucking way on God’s Green Earth for you to PREDICT how much your body is going to grow at a given time…which means anyone acting like they have the perfect amount of calories to gain ONLY muscle is probably way off.

To believe otherwise is to think I would go from where I was as a newb to how I am now by maintaining 10% body fat the whole way.

145

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?

We already established (according to everyone but me apparently lol) that the muscle gain is the same. [/quote]

OK-- real simple.

Ready?

Nobody is suggesting eating McApplePies and Shamrock Shakes from McDonalds everyday.

Nobody is suggesting eating McDonald’s every day. *

In a pinch, a goddammed cheeseburger is a goddammed cheeseburger.

  • If I were one of the thousands (lol) of “hard gainers” on this site who can eat 5000 cals a day and not gain a pound, my ass would be at McDonalds (or insert favorite burger joint here) eating BURGERS every goddammed day until my lifts started going through the roof.
146

I just ate a delicious cheeseburger thanks to this thread. Seriously, anyone who isn’t jonesin’ for a cheeseburger after reading this is not human.

147

[quote]gregron wrote:
EDIT: this post was addressing Steelys last post

^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?
[/quote]

If given the choice, and it was that easy, you wouldn’t.

But, it isn’t all that easy. As someone said in here before, 4,000 cals from a loose diet is “easier” than a strict one. (Not that 4,000 is tough, but I’m just using a rando # to make a point.)

Now post in the new Halloween thread god damn it.

148

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?

We already established (according to everyone but me apparently lol) that the muscle gain is the same. [/quote]

OK-- real simple.

Ready?

Nobody is suggesting eating McApplePies and Shamrock Shakes from McDonalds everyday.

Nobody is suggesting eating McDonald’s every day.

In a pinch, a goddammed cheeseburger is a goddammed cheeseburger.

If I were one of the thousands (lol) of “hard gainers” on this site who can eat 5000 cals a day and not gain a pound, my ass would be at McDonalds (or insert favorite burger joint here) eating BURGERS every goddammed day until my lifts started going through the roof.[/quote]

Well said. I still have a fast metabolism. Why the hell would I have avoided all fast food in college when I was very active and I was growing so fast my biceps still have the stretch marks all over them?

149

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
EDIT: this post was addressing Steelys last post

^^but if you gain the exact same amount of muscle from mc donalds as you do from eating good “clean” (don’t really like that word) food choices like I was suggesting then why would you choose the food that has a worst effect on body comp?
[/quote]

If given the choice, and it was that easy, you wouldn’t.

But, it isn’t all that easy. As someone said in here before, 4,000 cals from a loose diet is “easier” than a strict one. (Not that 4,000 is tough, but I’m just using a rando # to make a point.)

Now post in the new Halloween thread god damn it.[/quote]

Also well said.

No one gets a freaking award for suffering more than everyone else.

This is about PROGRESS…which means the guys making the most win.

No one gives a shit at the end HOW you did it.

Get huge. Diet fat off. Enjoy.

150

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
^^I just flat out don’t beleive that.

Quality foods/calories (MDD style) will do more for your physique than processed fast foods. That’s not even debatable IMO[/quote]

Do more like what? What is “grass fed beef” doing for my muscle gains specifically that regular beef ins’t?[/quote]

This is just from my personal experience… Since changing up my food choices I have seen great results. I’ve upped my carbs/fats, lowered my protein slightly, cals are roughly the same and I have gotten more muscular, stronger and leaner while keeping my training the same. I feel better too. I used to have stomach issues and bad gas, that is all gone as well.

I don’t expect people to believe me because I say so. I was skeptical at first too but after actually trying it out I’ve seen the results and I’m a believer.[/quote]

I think a big part of the difference is the fact it’s much harder to hit your macros accurately from fast food type sources.

When you’re at home and you just want to increase your protein you can simply eat some lean meat while taking in immaterial amounts of fat/carbs.

If you are trying to up your protein from the average fast food place, you will have no choice but to up your carbs/fat a decent amount in the process.

[/quote]

But if you are worried about hitting your macros “accurately” you have the wrong mindset about gaining muscle. I saw no progress until I changed my mindset from “aim for exactly x, y, z grams of protein/carbs/fat” to “aim for those totals if you can but get NO LESS than the calories/protein you need to grow every day, even if it means full sugar soda”.

I eat like shit compared to 90% of people on TN and I am somehow not fat. I believe if you are lifting weights with intensity 5 days a week and have an IQ above room temperature you will simply not get obese.

I have never eaten “dirtier” than I have this past year and I have never made progress like this before either. Im not saying cheeseburgers=muscle, more that the underlying thought process you need to have to be OK with eating them is necessary to gaining muscle.

Hope that was intelligible, posting from my phone on a plane lol

151

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Now post in the new Halloween thread god damn it.[/quote]
LOL
Done and done!

152

Surely the grass fed beef has better micros/amino profile? Meaning more muscle gain?

Plus the trans fat etc, in going to have a blunting effect on insulin sensitivity, if the goal I just to ‘dirty bulk’ I’d rather make and eat burgers myself than expose myself to the added crap and bad hygiene of many fast food joints.

/endbeingadick.

My burger of choice is double steakhouse Angus from BK with no cheese and extra meat (hate cheese), other stuff is a footlong steak and cheese sub, no cheese treble steak, jalepenos, iceberg, cucumber, red onion and green pepper with south Weston sause.

have them as ‘cheat meals’ usually on a leg day or double session day and they taste so good, don’t enjoy the lethargic foggy feeling after though, normally just down a coffee and get on with my day.

153

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
Surely the grass fed beef has better micros/amino profile? Meaning more muscle gain?
[/quote]

Wait…so you think you control how fast your body absorbs and utilizes protein?

Why do you think this?

154

In a few hours I will be taking advantage of Pizza Hut’s $10 any pizza/any crust/any size/any toppings deal.

155

No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?

156

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

OK…so do you understand that your body is likely to use more protein AS fuel instead of using it build more muscle unless the overall calories and even carbs are substantial?

Do you understand that you could possibly grow MORE by taking in less protein if the other two variables are increased?

Some of the fastest gains I ever made were in college with NO protein supplements eating what most of you would call “junk”.

How is that possible if the “amino acid profile” is the most important aspect of making muscular gains?

157

[quote]JLone wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]
Without using the minds-eye to put a picture of grass fed beef vs. chicken nuggets into our minds. The question is, would a diet consisting of the same organic macros vs inorganic macros in identical percentages produce the same result.

The answer is yes. [/quote]

BULL FUCKING SHIT.

I dont personally eat they way Id like to all the time because I can afford it but the idea that REAL food (read: as natural and unprocessed as realistically possible) doesnt make a difference is complete bullshit.

You clearly havent devoted any significant period of time to eating they way gregron is talking about. And since youll likely come back at this, significant = 6 months +

158

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

Majoring in the minors. Yes that’s true but micronutrients are way less important than macronutrients if your primary fitness goal is mass gain

159

[quote]Blackaggar wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
In terms of muscle growth, your genetics and metabolism are what govern that along with the training stimulus and overall food intake. So, in the sense of gaining muscle, he is not wrong.[/quote]

so if I eat Mc Donalds Double cheese burgers and fries all day long for 6 months while lifting hard/consistently I’ll gain the same amount of muscle mass that I would if I had eaten free range chicken/eggs, grass feed beef, wild caught salmon and sweet potatoes as long as the macros were the same?

You’re saying I would gain the exact same amount of muscle but that I would more than likely just gain more fat with the Whack Arnolds diet? All other outside factors remaining the same.[/quote]

if your macros are the same on both diets then probably yes but its near impossible to determine. Would look better and generally feel better on the MDD diet as opposed to Mcdonolds? ofcourse you would but in terms of muscle gain its really hard to say for sure because individual to individual is completely different[/quote]

What? There is a huge logical flaw here.

It isnt necessary to compare different people to each other. The premise is that Person A will have different (and obviously better, from a bodybuilding perspective) results eating oragnic/natural foods than eating highly processed foods.

If youre saying that there are some people where the opposite is true, I think youre naive/ignorant.

160

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]MAsteve wrote:
No but I think better amino profile = better muscle fuel.

Otherwise why pay a fortune for Biotest protiens instead of wal marts 12 quid whey?[/quote]

OK…so do you understand that your body is likely to use more protein AS fuel instead of using it build more muscle unless the overall calories and even carbs are substantial?

Do you understand that you could possibly grow MORE by taking in less protein if the other two variables are increased?

Some of the fastest gains I ever made were in college with NO protein supplements eating what most of you would call “junk”.

How is that possible if the “amino acid profile” is the most important aspect of making muscular gains?[/quote]

Yeah again here I aggree with X

if amino acid is all important then why do people even eat chicken in the first place? the amino acid makeup in regular beef is superior to that in chicken by a decent amount along with other things that make it superior.