E2 Up Again ... Need Dosage Advice

Bigger Stronger Leaner Over 35 Lifter
1

Just got back my latest E2 from LEF.

E2 = 41

I was taking the following when blood was drawn:
15mg of A-gel daily. (3 packs)
HCG 250IU EOD
3 drops of A-dex EOD

Before that I was only taking 2 pks of A-gel daily
No, HCG and 1 drop of A-dex daily.
My E2 was 24 at that dose, and my T was 566

What dose of A-dex do you think is needed now with the increased A-gel, and HCG protocol ???

Like I said currently on 3 drops A-dex EOD and E2 came back at 41.

I want to get back to low 20’s.

4 drops per day sound right ???

2

41/22 *.36= 0.67 week or 20.1 drops.
I’d start with 3ED and see how you feel. You know it will take about two weeks for your serum levels to stabilize, right?

For me personally, the addition of HCG required more than than “average” adex, but I apparently am an “under responder”. Read:4 drop ED for you.
If I take less than than 11 drops a day, it affects me negatively, so everybody’s different…

Good luck.

3

Thanks …
I am switching to 4 drops ED (Front load with 1/2 mg) for now.

I still plan on switching to shots in the very near future. And then plan to dial in once I have a consistent T level.

For me the best way (beside Libido) to tell my E2 is high, is slight swelling ( water retention) in hands.

4

KNB-
Just curious about the formula you used to determine dosage… where is it from and what are the variables? Thanks

5

Funny you say that about the swelling in your hands. I get the same thing. I’ve been taking .5mg a day of liquidex and I still can’t get my E2 down.

I’m curious about the strength of liquidex because I’ve been on the real Arimidex and that ran my E way to low at 1mg a week. I just bought some 6-OXO which really works for me. If I take that stuff at 6 caps a day for a week my joints are dried out and crunching. I don’t think the liquidex is making it into my system for some reason.

I’m considering squirting the drops on a small piece of bread and taking it that way. I’m at a lose with that stuff because it’s not working.

6

How much T for .5 mg A-dex ED ???
That sounds like a lot of A-dex.
I would get a quick E2 check to confirm levels. Have you check via bloodwork while maintaining that dose for at least 2 weeks ?

7

[quote]Babo wrote:
KNB-
Just curious about the formula you used to determine dosage… where is it from and what are the variables? Thanks[/quote]

I copied it from a post by KSman.
Of course the variables screw it up for guys like me.
On 1mg/week my E2 was 69, and 2mg/week it was <32.
But, that was before I started on HCG, and now I’m still in search of the “sweet spot”. I’m on 11 drops/day and will get b/w tomorrow, so I’ll see what my numbers show.

The test results are relative because libido is the best barometer for me. I know, bad pun…
I use C1’s liquid adex.

8

The testes have a lot of aromatase and the intratesticular T levels can be 80 times higher than serum in young normal males. That is a lot of T [substrate] for the aromatase to work on.

250iu hCG EOD is not making the testes create more E2 than for young normal males. It is an HRT dose.

When on TRT without hCG, you have a baseline extrogen production. When adding hCG and the testes come back to life, the estrogen level climbs past that baseline. Nothing unexpected there.

Guys say that hCG increases estrogen… so what! New baseline, adjust your adex. Do not blame adex, blame your testes that are now back on line.

When increasing T by 50%, 2 packs to 3 packs, there is a lot more T for aromatization. T and adex are competitive and statistically oppose each other for aromatization probabilities. More T needs more adex. If you increase T, adex must be increased.

3 drops of ldex EOD is (3x3.5)/28=.375 mg/wk.
8 drops of ldex EOD is 1mg/wk.

Now with E2=41 and a E2 target of 22. Your dose can be scaled as (41/22)*.375=.7mg. That is still a low dose for many.

The above seems to work well for injecting.

For Agel, the aromatase under the skin is seeing huge transient amounts of T over large surface areas. This is a different dynamic when T levels are VERY high under the skin - adex is out numbered at this part of the body.

There will be surges of E production. With surging and decaying E2 levels, the E2 lab results may vary with the time of the blood draw. That would have very little diagnostic value, more of timestamp.

If the testes are still regenerating and recovering T production, then T levels are increasing, which is a moving target for labs and adex dosing in the near term.

If you get to a good endpoint in T and E labs, if you change T levels, it is a new game. You have to balance the results of two greatly different processes.

I think now that it is clear that asking adex to balance with T in internal tissues and dermal layers with transdermal TRT at the same time is like trying to play to games at once. Not as simple as with injections* where the intensity of battle is the same everywhere.

*Yes injections that are once a week create large changes in T and E levels. Many inject more than once a week and changing level issues become less of a concern. Some even inject T EOD.

With transdermals, there may be a weakness to linearly scaling up adex. With transdermals and E spikes, lab results will vary with the time of the blood draws. 24 hour urine tests would then be of value.

I had not thought before about how transdermals add complexity in comparison to injections.

9

KSman,

Is E2 more sensitive to Free or to total T?