I think that’s high estrogen without high testosterone. Estrogen dominance can cause those issues, but not high e2 along with high TT, right?
Hi @e306 sure sounds like Defy has you pretty well tuned in. I see no reason you can’t experiment a round a little. You know what this protocol gives you just remember it. Since you don’t seemed to be bothered by an E2 that is over range what is your SHGB? I\m guessing it is over 40?
I will also report to the group my ejaculate is about 1/10th of what it used to be.
I have blamed this on a side effect of injecting T not E2 or any of the other bloods we measure.
It is not as bio identical as the drug companies say.
e306 I am also a Defy patient >6years. Here is my latest T at 120mg/wk .125mg anastrozole on shot days Mon /Thurs 400iu HCG on shot day. This blood is a 4 day trough. So that might give you a ball park as to where 120 might take you. I have no issues gaining at the gym or with my libido. I do have severe ED from the overrange E2.
Thanks, as always - very helpful. My SHBG actually started at 67 on Clomid only in January, then 37 on TRT by April and in May down to 27. Haven’t retested since.
E2 is a very personal thing.
A drop from 1300 to 750 on TT while only dropping 10 points on E2 . If the problem is ratio, that would have really given you a whacked out ratio comparatively. Was your AI dose the same at both 160mg and at 140mg? 3x week should give you a slightly lower E2 than 2x week, helping your ratio.and explaining the some of the difference in how you feel. I wouldn’t be cncerned too much with E2 levels for any reason oher than negative sides - actual ones not theoretical future possibilities. We know next to nothing about E2 long-term, other than too low is quite bad.
I was on no AI at 160 but because my E2 was at 65, I was dropped to 140mg and while my TT dropped to 750, my E2 only went down to 55. But perhaps thats because my SHBG keeps dropping?
Lower SHBG can elevate E2, but it will also give you more free T. SHBG has a preference for Test and strong androgens (like anadrol for example), and will bind them first if available. Chances are, the lower T dose resulted in less free T, skewing your ratio further. Over time your E2 should drop without a dose change, we’re talking over one or more years, faster depending on how much fat you do or do not carry.
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Not carrying much and even less since starting TRT 6 months ago. It’s been a shocking comp transformation
Aromatase enzyme is stored in fat, so all other tings being equal your E2 should drop with your fat level to a point. I would not be tempted to play with dose too much, if you feel good at one then run with it. Don’t spend too much time stressing over “optimizing”, it generally just causes you problems.
Good to know and exactly why I’m hesitant to change vs ride things out for longer than 6 months and see how I adjust. I’ve made a few changes already and trying to stabilize on something
It really requires patience, and that seems to be in short supply these days with most people.
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Forget about the ejaculate volume. If u judge ur protocol on this it is not a good idea.
I also usually have a tiny amount but it feels like an awesome orgasim. If I skip a day or 2 and edge I can get much more volume. U may need to change ur thinking in volume to - “ it is what it is”. Of course I wish I could shoot a huge load each time but am ok with that now. It may not be e2 at all affecting ur volume it could be your LH and FSH being 0 which is what u get being on trt
I would actually keep ur dose the same or lower each injection a bit and drop the ai. You may be over worrying about your e2.
Some extra zinc and water may help increase your load. If u are ejaculating everyday, don’t expect much volume.
Once you are stable you can alter an injection here and there. Like do 50-40-50 or 60-40-40. See if u like the affect. Sometimes with these fluctuations u get some libido bursts and perhaps a shooting load lol
I think it really is just that its such a sudden change. To go from a tablespoon to a quarter teaspoon, or less, is just drastic. Am I overly concerned? no. Are my orgasms more intense than before TRT? Yep. Does my wife care that she isn’t dripping all day long afterwards? LOL nope. So it doesn’t REALLY matter but the change is a little bit of a mental thing, ya know?
I didn’t realize SHBG could lower that much from TRT. That’s crazy. Is a 40 point drop like that (67 - 27) fairly uncommon? Seems like you’d rather have it higher than lower (if the low is really low).
My was that high as a common side effect of Clomid. I was on Clomid monotherapy for 8 years successfully but while it kept my TT up around 600-700 (from 400), year after year my SHBG rose to a level that high and I saw diminishing returns from the Clomid as my FT obviously was decreasing along the way. No regrets at all, though. I fathered 3 children on that regimen while getting a quality of life boost that was needed.
That blows my theory unless that 27 was a lab error.
No, not normal but he was on clomid so who knows. I’ve been reading these boards for about 6 years this is a first. Me pre-trt I was 38 now I am 25.6 I’ve held the mid to high 20’s for the last 4 years. I look forward to seeing his next SHGB when something goes that far off I always supect lab error. Time will tell.
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Just quickly looked and in 2011, right before I started Clomid, my SHBG was 29. Perhaps it’s settled back to my natural state?
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Also - so glad you guys made me think to look at those labs. My E2 was 10. Whoa.
Agreed. Very drastic. But confusing as it’s so much more intense at the same time. I had to ask my wife if she cared and she looked at me like I’m nuts and laughed. She has zero issue with everything being cleaner and it also equates to less chance of pregnancy to her (I did an at home test and showed up infertile). We have 3 kids and do not want more (yes, she’s also on birth control).
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