There is no luck in it…i am sure whatever i post in the future will be severely derailed by the CARDIO OBSESSOR ATP
As long as you don’t mention Drew Baye I think you will be alright!
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What more would you like discussed about Drew Baye winning?
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If there is nothing else to be said of Drew Baye winning, then the thread can be put to rest, lol
Your original post sir! You made several assumptions in this short statement. You offered no (zero) evidence of an actual SuperSlow workout. As best as I can recall, he has tried many numerous types of methods, including body weight. You offered no facts. I see no one actually ridiculing SuperSlow exercise, but rather see this regimen of exercise as another “tool in the toolbox “! Why should anyone apologize? Speak for yourself is advice you might heed!
Although it’s common Internet knowledge that DB is using HRT, he releases no data as to be transparent on his usage thereof. He leaves many with the appearance of being “natural”. He is noted for being vehemently anti-cardio! He will not debate on this issue.
He is noted for limiting comments and restricted freedom of speech on his site.
You don’t like my posts on cardio-so what!
But post on DB, and ask for an apology from others, and you open this discussion to all avenues of his character. Deal with it!
Wow…at least you posted about the topic
and the sad thing is, your display of jealousy by allowing an individual or numerous individuals live rent free in your head
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I am in no need of your diagnostic ability!
Why don’t YOU stay on the subject- hypocrite!
pettersson,
Do you have any more of that pop corn you mentioned a few posts back? 
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Someone should start a thread for the “most amazing training protocols that are never actually used by elite sportsmen”.
I say he wins his pro card this year, takes down Hadi and Lunsford for the Olympia crown next year
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If my understanding is correct, that would be a very long thread.
Gonna chip in… I was on DB’s private forum last year. Always thought he was a fairly abrasive and dogmatic character but he’s actually a really decent bloke, massively helpful and seemingly transparent.
I don’t share his views on cardio, just to get that out there. I also think he makes some errors in his approach to hypertrophy: tempo and lack of long rest between sets to name two. I disagree with his avoidance of unilateral work too, although I see his rationale.
However, those doubting he used his methods to win this; he posts weekly workout videos and quantifies nearly every aspect of his week. Sure it could be an elaborate lie, but it could be that he does what he says he does and got good results.
I followed his dietary advice and workout approach last year and got down to around 8% bf.
I would say I was less dense than other times, and found the workouts draining but I was glad to have done the experiment and came away with more respect for his approach than I previously had.
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I don’t know him personally, and have no interest in his paid forum. I can only judge his social media persona, which comes across to me as dogmatic and condescending. Perhaps some of his fans like that style. It is not a selling point for me.
His recommended exercise protocol is mostly standard Hutchins Super Slow. At times, it seems like he hasn’t moved much beyond the 1970’s or 1980’s in terms of his understanding of exercise science. He is often just repeating talking points that have circulated in the HIT/SS community for decades. And he seems unable to appreciate that, depending on one’s objectives, there can be value in other kinds of training that fall outside the narrow blinders of SS theology. Anything like that gets labeled “uninformed opinion”, a particularly irritating phrase that he invokes way too often.
On the plus side, he does seem to incorporate more variety of exercise in his programs than some other SS folks. And he does show some creativity in how he adapts this advice to situations where machines are not available. Likewise, some of his tips on how to improve the biomechanics of various exercises seem useful.
I don’t doubt that he largely follows his own exercise advice, and has done so for years. I’ve merely noted that there was a noticeable improvement in his physique shortly after he acknowledged he was using TRT, and after he (supposedly) hired a nutrition coach.
I’m sure the improvement in his physique has helped boost his training/advice business. But if that improvement was largely the result of TRT and nutrition coaching by a third party, that shouldn’t really buy him more credibility as a trainer. But that is how the industry works. If you look the part you get more clients, even if you continue to tell those clients that it really just comes down to good genetics and maintaining an appropriate calorie input.
Yep, sadly it is how the industry works…. Well muscled dudes on social media do a good job of attracting followers even when they peddle nonsense with zero evidence base (carnivore clowns are my current favourites).
Drew is pretty good on his private forum in terms of helpfulness and doesn’t come across like he’s wilfully selling lies, (like some) but I don’t disagree with your assessment above.
This is horrible advice for cardiovascular conditioning.
What is needed:
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greater than 50% muscle mass utilized
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rhythmical, rapid contraction of agonist /antagonist muscles
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no impediment to breathing ie. NO Valsalva maneuver to impede venous return of blood to right atrium
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no prolonged contraction of muscle tissues to impede blood flow
Your suggestions do not provide the proper cardiovascular conditioning stimulus . Neither Arthur Jones, nor Dr. Darden suggestions on cardiovascular conditioning are supported by experts and the vast majority of scientific studies on this subject.
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I would say, based on this recent research, that the advice of lots of activity like golf and Pickleball was spot on.
Calcification of the arteries was shown in greater quantities in those that did too much of their “cardio” at an intensity of 9 Mets and above, regardless of the overall volume (think of running to fit that description).
A little “very vigorous” activity is okay ( think of an 80/20 distribution) but like any medicine ( if we view exercise as medicine) you can overdose.
Vigorous exercise at 6 to 9 Mets for most of your activity ( the activities above, hiking, easy cycling etc) seem to be where it’s at, with a sprinkling of harder stuff thrown in.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIRCULATIONAHA.122.061173?fbclid=IwAR3GXs0q_7GJyTgqqB7Y9L1yukSU-wZ-vjIeCvkYdlKROgdaRic6rwXyEkA_aem_AVGSCxnjkhgfzDalzRDQBMzP9DFbKpFiBcrJLMUvBlMOR1bxo2MN94-NGYQTWEL7hc4
Here is a meta analysis by James O’Keefe et al which shows the same thing regarding activity vs higher intensity cardio exercise and it’s relationship to mortality. The cut off point from this study appears to be no more than two and a half hours per week of the harder stuff, but there is no apparent upper limit to easier activity, and the suggestion is, that you can get by on that alone.
Notice the recommendations for the short time spent weight training per week also…
Then don’t follow it
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Some easy, sane, and non-dogmatic (non-ATPmatic?) cardio recommendations:
The Best and Worst Cardio for Natural Bodybuilding - T Nation Content - COMMUNITY - T NATION (t-nation.com)
General Fitness was the framing category, not Cardio. Anyone performing the above activites regularly will be better off than the 85% couch potato population out there. Lighten-Up, Francis! (or Marc-is) – you’ve gone far beyond being a broken record on this topic.
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