Confirmation fo what most here believe.
From Elite:
http://articles.elitefts.com/articles/nutrition/the-effect-of-whey-and-soy-protein-supplementation-on-lean-body-mass-lbm-of-resistance-trained-young-men/
I’ve had no problem maintaining muscle mass and strength and power on a vegan diet. While I’m no longer an athlete, I do like to think that I train pretty hard every day. A typical day for me looks something like this: bowl of oatmeal and a banana for breakfast, post-workout soy protein shake, Clif bar, two soy meat sandwiches and one-fourth cup of nuts for lunch, couple of pieces of fruit, huge salad with at least two to three types of beans, couple of cups of pasta with marinara sauce, fruit, pea-rice protein shake for dessert.
Guess what, guys? You can get jacked and strong as hell without ever eating a single animal product, just like my brother from another mother:
Don’t believe the hype, boys. It’s always funny as hell when some 140 pound “bodybuilder” is concerned with eating anything that might have traces of soy in it because he doesn’t want it to negatively affect his Testosterone levels. Uh, sorry pal, but you got many other problems to worry about.
I’ve carried around 245 pounds with approximately 11-12% body fat for many, many years now with no ill effects. If you guys saw how much soy I eat, well, let’s just say that I should be Roberta by now.
A section of an article from Alwyn Cosgrove interviewing NSCA Coach of the Year,
Robert Dos Remedios
There’s so many contradicting stories and studies out there. If you’re worried try an elimination diet and see how you respond.
^^^^This is an article from a little while back. I do not eat soy. Just making a point that there are studies for both sides of every story.
True, soy won’t kill you. But I’d avoid too much.
Would drinking Soy milk for a Squats and Milk program be too much soy?
[quote]rephore wrote:
Would drinking Soy milk for a Squats and Milk program be too much soy?[/quote]
Yes, but the same would be true for regular milk. Seriously, unless you want problems, don’t drink a gallon of any liquid, unless its water.
Soy milk is like the nasty of all nasties: it’s basically the byproduct of the process of sorting out soy-oil for industrial use. Someone was like: hey, we just removed all the fat (oil) and have a bunch of nasty fat-free, low-quality plant-protein-crap left… I bet if we added a bunch of sugar, and sold it as a low-fat alternative to dairy milk, affluent suckers will buy it… and they did.
I read an article a while back from Men’s health a friend showed me after I was bitching about PETA and drawbacks of soy, like the fact that men really don’t need any. anything over 1 serving is too much bc it’s been shown that the phyto-estrogens DO both to receptor sites. They help women, who have the same receptors we do, who in their right mind thinks we aren’t to be affected by it?
Honestly. But I digress… Men’s health article was about some dude chugging 3-4 quarts of silk a day and had the worst mood swings, over emotional and developed nubs on his chest. He was turning into a chick essentially, from, guess what? SOY!
It’s one example, but people are die-hards to defend what they do/are for a living.
dnlcdstn- You are one example. Also, we don’t know the circumstance you’re in. For all we know athlete means an overgrown soccer player. Also, how long have you been vegan? Spartiates made a good point, it’s crap. Next we will have to explain why you shouldn’t have a corn-protein supp…
Also, who takes advise from someone eating Clif bars (first ingredient is usually brown rice syrup)? You drink Gaterade too, don’t you? For people without a sugary diet who are big like you, and half-ass genetics meat is the only option. We were hunters and gatherers. We lived mostly off of meat man, how the hell do you think we are still existing, soy?
its not even milk… soy milk?? What does it come from a soy animal? It should be called soy juice or something
[quote]gregron wrote:
its not even milk… soy milk?? What does it come from a soy animal? It should be called soy juice or something[/quote]
x2
Although this should not apply for coconuts… Coconut juice sucks, whereas coconut milk is awesome w ton’s of fat/cal. Just putting it out there, for no good reason. But also to emphasize how much soy sucks -for dudes- compared to EVERYTHING else you could have.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I’ve had no problem maintaining muscle mass and strength and power on a vegan diet. While I’m no longer an athlete, I do like to think that I train pretty hard every day. A typical day for me looks something like this: bowl of oatmeal and a banana for breakfast, post-workout soy protein shake, Clif bar, two soy meat sandwiches and one-fourth cup of nuts for lunch, couple of pieces of fruit, huge salad with at least two to three types of beans, couple of cups of pasta with marinara sauce, fruit, pea-rice protein shake for dessert.
Guess what, guys? You can get jacked and strong as hell without ever eating a single animal product, just like my brother from another mother:
Don’t believe the hype, boys. It’s always funny as hell when some 140 pound “bodybuilder” is concerned with eating anything that might have traces of soy in it because he doesn’t want it to negatively affect his Testosterone levels. Uh, sorry pal, but you got many other problems to worry about.
I’ve carried around 245 pounds with approximately 11-12% body fat for many, many years now with no ill effects. If you guys saw how much soy I eat, well, let’s just say that I should be Roberta by now.
A section of an article from Alwyn Cosgrove interviewing NSCA Coach of the Year,
Robert Dos Remedios
There’s so many contradicting stories and studies out there. If you’re worried try an elimination diet and see how you respond.[/quote]
Sometime around that article he admitted that getting to 245 he did eat meat or drink milk or something like that. Getting to and maintaining or two different things.
While there are bodybuilders that will say you can gain some size being vegatarian, nearly all of them say its either twice as hard, or they got big eating meat first.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Sometime around that article he admitted that getting to 245 he did eat meat or drink milk or something like that. Getting to and maintaining or two different things.
While there are bodybuilders that will say you can gain some size being vegatarian, nearly all of them say its either twice as hard, or they got big eating meat first.[/quote]
We should all be able to agree that there are zero health benefits of being vegetarian over omnivorous, and that soy products are benign at best (fermented, like tempe), and generally bad for you.
Being vegetarian is a moral choice (and I would be happy to argue against it on moral grounds too). To think it will do anything but make your health/physique goals anything but more difficult is silly. With extra effort and meticulous attention to detail, I’m sure someone could become a world-class body-builder (for awhile). But you can’t argue it’s optimal for health or BBing.
removing the oil from soybeans creates soymeal, and its a friggin exchange traded commodity worldwide, purposefully produced in millions of metric tons a year, that feeds most of the meat you have ever eaten in your life, not something they were taking to the trash and decided to fool you into drinking.
Nothing should be eaten in excessive amounts, soy is no different. The way everyone seems to get their panties in a bunch over it makes me think maybe they are in a high risk group that needs to avoid anything that could possibly make them develop any additional vaginas.
Milktruck-“feeds most of the meat you have ever eaten in your life”, No, this is not true. Corn does this. Also, I’m confused as to your point about it not being trash and being produced in tons. Then talking about how things are no good in moderation. Soy isn’t produced to be used in moderation, and it isn’t used in such a way.
Also, aside from most of the BS, there is too much risk to have higher estrogen, or did you not realize the health risks of that for me? Also how it will work against you or limit results in the gym… The last thing we all want.
Spartiates, morally anyone could argue that all day, as far as the population as a whole having to eat soy instead of meat, or other things for that matter. Individually I think it’s alright, though that’s on you. Your goals are set as such. Most do not want to eat to take away from training.
[quote]fmaurice wrote:
Milktruck-“feeds most of the meat you have ever eaten in your life”, No, this is not true. Corn does this. Also, I’m confused as to your point about it not being trash and being produced in tons. Then talking about how things are no good in moderation. Soy isn’t produced to be used in moderation, and it isn’t used in such a way.
Also, aside from most of the BS, there is too much risk to have higher estrogen, or did you not realize the health risks of that for me? Also how it will work against you or limit results in the gym… The last thing we all want.
Spartiates, morally anyone could argue that all day, as far as the population as a whole having to eat soy instead of meat, or other things for that matter. Individually I think it’s alright, though that’s on you. Your goals are set as such. Most do not want to eat to take away from training.[/quote]
Said perfectly. If something is easy to avoid…why wouldn’t I avoid it?
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
[quote]fmaurice wrote:
Milktruck-“feeds most of the meat you have ever eaten in your life”, No, this is not true. Corn does this. Also, I’m confused as to your point about it not being trash and being produced in tons. Then talking about how things are no good in moderation. Soy isn’t produced to be used in moderation, and it isn’t used in such a way.
Also, aside from most of the BS, there is too much risk to have higher estrogen, or did you not realize the health risks of that for me? Also how it will work against you or limit results in the gym… The last thing we all want.
Spartiates, morally anyone could argue that all day, as far as the population as a whole having to eat soy instead of meat, or other things for that matter. Individually I think it’s alright, though that’s on you. Your goals are set as such. Most do not want to eat to take away from training.[/quote]
Said perfectly. If something is easy to avoid…why wouldn’t I avoid it?[/quote]
Very true. I’m all for the stuff, I have my girl eat as much as possible (has crohn’s, so not too much of the whole food version, but soy protein for her bc whey hurts during a flare-up). I’m not trying to attack anyone, but why use soy when you have things like gemma, hemp and rice protein if your a vegan male (sorry, actually had to say ‘vegan male’ lol) that have [almost] ZERO effect on estrogen/test and are priced only $0.20 differently/lb, if that?
SOYBOY ^^
Why risk it? 
All those veggie BBs that say they got big on veggie diet, how big COULD they have got on good old meat?
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
^^^^This is an article from a little while back. I do not eat soy. Just making a point that there are studies for both sides of every story. [/quote]
FMaurice did you read this? I’m not a vegan. I’m not defending the vegan approach to food. I am all for survival of the fittest. No one cares when a fucking lion eats an antelope. Why should we feel bad for eating animals? We’re smarter and more advanced so we rule the world. Our teeth are not flat and our eyes are not on the sides of our faces like plant eaters. We are most advanced species with little to no stress so the need for change/evolution is scarce.
I just found it strange that a top level fitness guru is a vegan. The fact he eats so much soy and is apparently healthy and was 245 lb contradicts popular belief. I have no beef (haha) with vegans and their approach to food. Most are very environmentally friendly people so more power to 'em.
My ex-wife was vegan and it rubbed off on me truth be told. I ran a lot and didn’t lift and guess what… I was a dripping wet 170lbs. I’m 198 give or take 2 lbs as of now (185ish in avatar).
I’ve eaten 4 sirloin patties today for my lunch(es). Just to be clear. I’M NOT VEGAN.
-dnl… Sorry man. I clicked respond after you posted the article, before you stated that was an article. I just didn’t send until later. No need to explain yourself, I just don’t tend to read something from the beginning again, takes too much time. Stick to “quotes” I guess for articles. People like to bash the small soy-boys here, clearly (or the freak posted above… who’s back is too big to be vegan lol)
[quote]Davinci.v2 wrote:
[quote]fmaurice wrote:
Milktruck-“feeds most of the meat you have ever eaten in your life”, No, this is not true. Corn does this. Also, I’m confused as to your point about it not being trash and being produced in tons. Then talking about how things are no good in moderation. Soy isn’t produced to be used in moderation, and it isn’t used in such a way.
Also, aside from most of the BS, there is too much risk to have higher estrogen, or did you not realize the health risks of that for me? Also how it will work against you or limit results in the gym… The last thing we all want.
Spartiates, morally anyone could argue that all day, as far as the population as a whole having to eat soy instead of meat, or other things for that matter. Individually I think it’s alright, though that’s on you. Your goals are set as such. Most do not want to eat to take away from training.[/quote]
Said perfectly. If something is easy to avoid…why wouldn’t I avoid it?[/quote]
This is true, I work in grains for one of the big 4. Corn too, but if you dont think meal is involved to a huge degree, you are wrong.
It is produced on purpose in millions of metric tons and sold as a feed ingredient. Why does this suggest in any way it is trash? The post I referred to described defatting soybeans and using the meal as if they were conspiring to feed you nuclear runoff, which is not the case categorically.
And how does worldwide production have anything to do with an indivduals moderation in his consumption?
When i grow tits from soy in moderation you can come play with them. Honestly, its a freaking legume. If moderate intake of soy is holding someones gains back, so are a million other things they could obsess about while they arent lifting hard enough. There are health risks for everything, its all a trade off.