Does Your GF/Wife Have Male Friends?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I respect your choice not to go after what may have been low-hanging fruit. And, she sounds like something of a jerk.
[/quote]

I sort of doubt the fruit was hanging as low as you think. My guess is that she would’ve been happy to get me to the point where I made a pass at her, whereupon she could have stopped my advance by pointing out her marital status, secure in the knowledge that I wanted her.

Not that there was a risk of that happening; I had no urges of that sort toward the woman she’d become.[/quote]

Which I respect even more!

People, man. They can be pretty ugly. On the other hand, they can sometimes be awfully nice. So I suppose it balances out.

(WHY am I not packing? HOW does this computer keep winding up on my lap?)[/quote]

Hahaha… I have a mountain of way more important stuff I need to do, not least of which is to fill out the paperwork for a job I’ve been chasing for almost 5 years now. Yet here I am as well.

Self-discipline… FAIL.

Now it’s too late for me to do any work. I have to race off to have dinner and car making out with my boyfriend, who’s been out of town for an entire two days. This takes clear priority over being efficient and diligent re my move so I can sleep without middle-of-the-night wakings for extended anxiety and self-recrimination attacks.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
A couple of things: I think it bears mentioning that not all platonic male/female relationships are created equal. Work pals and casual acquaintances are not the same as someone you go out for drinks with alone on a regular basis. A whole bunch of people socializing in a mixed gender group is not the same as a woman calling a man late at night to have a long talk about life and love.

Long standing friendships, particularly those originating in childhood are different from more recent acquaintances. As rds points out above, there often simply isn’t any sexual tension in these relationships. I think it has something to do with the incest defence mechanism mentioned earlier.

As an example, my boss’s daughter has known me since she was 6 or 7. Recently some of the girls she knows at the club we both row out of saw me talking to her and commented that I was attractive (the lighting must have been bad). The “EWWWWWW!” response on her part was visceral and immediate. I find it easy to believe that we just don’t tend to see people from our early childhood in that light.

As rds also points out in his side-story, seeking to renew acquaintances originated in HS, after we reach sexual maturity, can potentially have very different connotations. This is where FB can become a problem IMO. I have seen more than one spouse get trade in for the idea of an old flame or the one that got away. My wife has some casual male acquaintances she has had for years.

She keeps in touch through FB and would go for coffee to catch up if she crossed paths with one of them. This is obviously cool. If she started calling one of these guys on a regular basis or having one on one meals, cocktails etc, this would be uncool. I’m not sure if this is because I find it to be inherently uncool or simply because it would represent a significant change in her current pattern of behaviour.

As another example my ex had a LOT of male friends. Every time she switched jobs she would immediately get super friendly with all the dudes working there. She was pretty hot and she derived much of her sense of worth from the power she exerted over guys. She actively cultivated sexual tension with almost every guy she came in contact with and crossed over personal boundaries all the time. I was cool with it because I was, well cool and oh-so-secure. At that time I very much had the attitude that she was gonna do what she was gonna do. My lack of response caused her to escalate her behaviour, since she was looking for a reaction.

I honestly don’t know if she could help herself. It really is like a sickness/addiction with her. However I was 21 and I was with the girl ALL the dudes wanted to be with and in my ignorant cock-surety I figured I had life by the balls as a predictable result of my undeniable awesomeness. Naturally cheating ensued. Twice. Of course, we had gotten together while she was with another guy and we had developed a “friendship” at work. I expect it is a pattern she will repeat throughout her life barring some significant personal breakthroughs.

I couldn’t have changed her actions and I’m grateful we’re not together, but I might have seen things for what they were sooner and invested less time and emotional energy. We very nearly got married which would have made the whole thing much more complicated and painful to sort out.

In no way am I implying that this is the OP’s situation. I don’t know anything about him or his GF. My point is simply that not all guy/girl friend situations are the same and, when we want to, we can very easily fool ourselves into believing something is one thing when it is, in fact, another.[/quote]

You’re killing it in this thread, man. Another great post.

Cheers Lanky.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
As another example my ex had a LOT of male friends. Every time she switched jobs she would immediately get super friendly with all the dudes working there. She was pretty hot and she derived much of her sense of worth from the power she exerted over guys. She actively cultivated sexual tension with almost every guy she came in contact with and crossed over personal boundaries all the time. I was cool with it because I was, well cool and oh-so-secure. At that time I very much had the attitude that she was gonna do what she was gonna do. My lack of response caused her to escalate her behaviour, since she was looking for a reaction.

I honestly don’t know if she could help herself. It really is like a sickness/addiction with her. However I was 21 and I was with the girl ALL the dudes wanted to be with and in my ignorant cock-surety I figured I had life by the balls as a predictable result of my undeniable awesomeness. Naturally cheating ensued. Twice. Of course, we had gotten together while she was with another guy and we had developed a “friendship” at work. I expect it is a pattern she will repeat throughout her life barring some significant personal breakthroughs.

I couldn’t have changed her actions and I’m grateful we’re not together, but I might have seen things for what they were sooner and invested less time and emotional energy. We very nearly got married which would have made the whole thing much more complicated and painful to sort out.[/quote]

Holy shit man it’s like we had the same life at 21 lol. Uncanny.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
As another example my ex had a LOT of male friends. Every time she switched jobs she would immediately get super friendly with all the dudes working there. She was pretty hot and she derived much of her sense of worth from the power she exerted over guys. She actively cultivated sexual tension with almost every guy she came in contact with and crossed over personal boundaries all the time. I was cool with it because I was, well cool and oh-so-secure. At that time I very much had the attitude that she was gonna do what she was gonna do. My lack of response caused her to escalate her behaviour, since she was looking for a reaction.

I honestly don’t know if she could help herself. It really is like a sickness/addiction with her. However I was 21 and I was with the girl ALL the dudes wanted to be with and in my ignorant cock-surety I figured I had life by the balls as a predictable result of my undeniable awesomeness. Naturally cheating ensued. Twice. Of course, we had gotten together while she was with another guy and we had developed a “friendship” at work. I expect it is a pattern she will repeat throughout her life barring some significant personal breakthroughs.

I couldn’t have changed her actions and I’m grateful we’re not together, but I might have seen things for what they were sooner and invested less time and emotional energy. We very nearly got married which would have made the whole thing much more complicated and painful to sort out.[/quote]

Holy shit man it’s like we had the same life at 21 lol. Uncanny.[/quote]

Are you referring to your post back on page 2 about your marriage and subsequent divorce? If so, I totally agree. I almost commented upon reading that that it sounded pretty damn familiar lol.

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
I never understood how someone can cheat and come home to their wife/husband with a clean conscience or what the point of the relationship is at that point…
[/quote]

Realize that not everyone is as beholden to their “conscience” as you are.

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
As another example my ex had a LOT of male friends. Every time she switched jobs she would immediately get super friendly with all the dudes working there. She was pretty hot and she derived much of her sense of worth from the power she exerted over guys. She actively cultivated sexual tension with almost every guy she came in contact with and crossed over personal boundaries all the time. I was cool with it because I was, well cool and oh-so-secure. At that time I very much had the attitude that she was gonna do what she was gonna do. My lack of response caused her to escalate her behaviour, since she was looking for a reaction.

I honestly don’t know if she could help herself. It really is like a sickness/addiction with her. However I was 21 and I was with the girl ALL the dudes wanted to be with and in my ignorant cock-surety I figured I had life by the balls as a predictable result of my undeniable awesomeness. Naturally cheating ensued. Twice. Of course, we had gotten together while she was with another guy and we had developed a “friendship” at work. I expect it is a pattern she will repeat throughout her life barring some significant personal breakthroughs.

I couldn’t have changed her actions and I’m grateful we’re not together, but I might have seen things for what they were sooner and invested less time and emotional energy. We very nearly got married which would have made the whole thing much more complicated and painful to sort out.[/quote]

Holy shit man it’s like we had the same life at 21 lol. Uncanny.[/quote]

Are you referring to your post back on page 2 about your marriage and subsequent divorce? If so, I totally agree. I almost commented upon reading that that it sounded pretty damn familiar lol.[/quote]
Yea man except you were just that little bit smarter than me lol!

Say, whatever happened to the OP? Did he talk to his girl? Has the issue been resolved?

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
So I guess the question for you in determining how it should work is: what sort of person are you? My gut tells me that you’re intimacy- and attachment-seeking and will prefer to cleave unto your person, once you acquire her. But I could be wrong.
[/quote]

I had meant to type earlier:
I think the question is “what does this relationship/friendship give my significant other that I am not or cannot?” And I think it is a relevant question regardless of whether the relationship is with a person of the opposite or same sex. If you can figure out the answer to that question, I think you can figure out whether the friendship is appropriate or not, and whether your romantic relationship is even salvageable.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
So I guess the question for you in determining how it should work is: what sort of person are you? My gut tells me that you’re intimacy- and attachment-seeking and will prefer to cleave unto your person, once you acquire her. But I could be wrong.
[/quote]

I had meant to type earlier:
I think the question is “what does this relationship/friendship give my significant other that I am not or cannot?” And I think it is a relevant question regardless of whether the relationship is with a person of the opposite or same sex. If you can figure out the answer to that question, I think you can figure out whether the friendship is appropriate or not, and whether your romantic relationship is even salvageable. [/quote]

Yes, I agree. I would further offer that this is a good question for people to ask themselves of potential relationships: “what does this relationship give me that I did not have without it?” I think for many of us, the primary romantic relationship is such that the answer is “nothing, really” when considering an opposite-sex friendship.

I think, though, that I meant the question quoted above in response to earlier, broader, thoughts of yours, about whether it’s desirable or necessary to limit opposite-sex friendships just because one is in a relationship.

.

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think, though, that I meant the question quoted above in response to earlier, broader, thoughts of yours, about whether it’s desirable or necessary to limit opposite-sex friendships just because one is in a relationship. [/quote]

I have been single for a long time, and I doubt that status is going to change anytime soon. I would have quite a way to go before this could even be an issue.

I will say that, many years ago, I had a relationship with a girl who wanted to spend separate time with friends from different aspects of her life. Not merely “girl time,” but she wanted to attend certain parties by herself to be with friends I didn’t know. Some of this was due to youth, but in retrospect it was a clear signal that our relationship was asymmetric, and that I didn’t tick all of the boxes she required for an acceptable boyfriend at the time. She wasn’t cheating on me. She just wasn’t as serious about me as I was about her.

One more thought about same-sex friendships. Ever know someone who constantly complains about his or her significant other to a third party the significant other doesn’t even know (or knows in passing)? Those kinds of relationships, too, can poison the romantic relationship during rough patches.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]batman730 wrote:
As another example my ex had a LOT of male friends. Every time she switched jobs she would immediately get super friendly with all the dudes working there. She was pretty hot and she derived much of her sense of worth from the power she exerted over guys. She actively cultivated sexual tension with almost every guy she came in contact with and crossed over personal boundaries all the time. I was cool with it because I was, well cool and oh-so-secure. At that time I very much had the attitude that she was gonna do what she was gonna do. My lack of response caused her to escalate her behaviour, since she was looking for a reaction.

I honestly don’t know if she could help herself. It really is like a sickness/addiction with her. However I was 21 and I was with the girl ALL the dudes wanted to be with and in my ignorant cock-surety I figured I had life by the balls as a predictable result of my undeniable awesomeness. Naturally cheating ensued. Twice. Of course, we had gotten together while she was with another guy and we had developed a “friendship” at work. I expect it is a pattern she will repeat throughout her life barring some significant personal breakthroughs.

I couldn’t have changed her actions and I’m grateful we’re not together, but I might have seen things for what they were sooner and invested less time and emotional energy. We very nearly got married which would have made the whole thing much more complicated and painful to sort out.[/quote]

Holy shit man it’s like we had the same life at 21 lol. Uncanny.[/quote]

Are you referring to your post back on page 2 about your marriage and subsequent divorce? If so, I totally agree. I almost commented upon reading that that it sounded pretty damn familiar lol.[/quote]
Yea man except you were just that little bit smarter than me lol![/quote]

Hahaha… You’re giving me a little too much credit I think. Just dumb luck really. I wouldn’t do that relationship again, ever, but it was one wild ride and when it ended I was sorry as hell. The overwhelming sense of relief didn’t come til later.

[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I think, though, that I meant the question quoted above in response to earlier, broader, thoughts of yours, about whether it’s desirable or necessary to limit opposite-sex friendships just because one is in a relationship. [/quote]

I have been single for a long time, and I doubt that status is going to change anytime soon. I would have quite a way to go before this could even be an issue.

I will say that, many years ago, I had a relationship with a girl who wanted to spend separate time with friends from different aspects of her life. Not merely “girl time,” but she wanted to attend certain parties by herself to be with friends I didn’t know. Some of this was due to youth, but in retrospect it was a clear signal that our relationship was asymmetric, and that I didn’t tick all of the boxes she required for an acceptable boyfriend at the time. She wasn’t cheating on me. She just wasn’t as serious about me as I was about her.

One more thought about same-sex friendships. Ever know someone who constantly complains about his or her significant other to a third party the significant other doesn’t even know (or knows in passing)? Those kinds of relationships, too, can poison the romantic relationship during rough patches.[/quote]

Interestingly, the last time I had weirdness with my boyfriend it was after talking to a friend. She likes to tell people what to do in a loud, ranting voice, which I tolerate because she’s 82 and such a wonderful person in so many ways. Anyway, when I spoke to her I was just getting ready to start my new job and was still agonizing over where to move…immediately near to the boyfriend or in my work town. And she ranted something like “DO YOU THINK HE DOESN’T REALIZE THAT YOU KEEP GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER?” And I sort of stammered back that of course he knows, we’ve talked about it every step of the way. I defensively noted that he’s asked me about living together more than once, which step I’m not ready for. He and I have worked to stay on the same page.

But nonetheless, it ate at me because it pushed exactly the right buttons, everything I fear. Am I foisting myself on him? Suffocating him? So I got all twisted up, which resulted in a giant thing with him. It was ultimately a very positive thing, happily. I don’t any longer question that he wants me close. So maybe it needed to happen and my grouchy friend was just the spark, I don’t know.

I was thinking more about this in the shower. The 82-year-old has had two bitter marriages and has rocky relationships with her children. She consistently recommends, in all interactions, that one self-protect (“you don’t need to tell him a goddamn thing! you don’t wear your heart on your sleeve!”). I don’t want to live like that.

My closest friends are different. They nurture their own relationships and support me in doing so in mine. There are posters here at TN from whom there is nothing to fear if I admit that I’m confused or hurt by my boyfriend. Their advice would be geared toward fixing, not ending, a relationship. Others would fan flames of discord, and are probably not particularly happy in their own lives.

I think this goes back to the “choose wisely” thing.