[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
appropriate and humorous[/quote]
.[/quote]
You shop in funny places for a guy who hates sodomy. 
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
That being said, the crown of thorns is only a reference to Jesus if you choose to interpret it that way, otherwise it’s just a symbol of suffering and burden. Maybe people are offended by this because they’re looking to be offended. [/quote]
Basically this. unless a crown of thorns alone now equals “Jesus”, then there is no way you can label it “blasphemy”.
Everyone who wears a crown of thorns in a picture is literally trying to be Jesus Christ?[/quote]
No, not that. The artist is intending to portray Obama as a Christ with outspread arms and a crown of thorns. To suggest that he just happens to be wearing a crown made out of thorns and there is no connection to Jesus is idiotic.
Blasphemy: “Blasphemy is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for a religious deity or the irreverence towards religious or holy persons or things.”[/quote]
I didn’t say “no connection at all”. I said he is NOT painted as a literal portrayal of Christ. There is no cross.
If he were literally mimicking the exact pose you would have more of a case…but being pinned to a cross wasn’t about simply having “outstretched arms”. It was about being nailed to that sucker with the arms in a specific cross like formation.
As you can see, that pic ain’t that…so it can not be “blasphemy”. It also isn’t making fun of Jesus or insulting him…so you miss that point.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I didn’t say “no connection at all”. I said he is NOT painted as a literal portrayal of Christ. There is no cross.
[/quote]
There doesn’t need to be a cross. The artist is clearly intending to portray Obama as Jesus or liken him to Jesus.
Dude, that’s ridiculous. No one is arguing that the artist isn’t intending to portray Obama as Jesus. Not the people who like the picture. Not the people who don’t like the picture. Not the presenters. Not the curator of the exhibition.
[quote]
As you can see, that pic ain’t that…so it can not be “blasphemy”. It also isn’t making fun of Jesus or insulting him…so you miss that point.[/quote]
It’s showing irreverance towards a person considered holy. And for the record, it doesn’t offend me and I don’t support blasphemy laws. I’m just stating facts.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
There doesn’t need to be a cross. The artist is clearly intending to portray Obama as Jesus or liken him to Jesus.[/quote]
This is art. To claim what an artist is “clearly” trying to portray implies you know the artist personally…because most art is left to the interpretation of the viewer.
[quote]
Dude, that’s ridiculous. No one is arguing that the artist isn’t intending to portray Obama as Jesus. Not the people who like the picture. Not the people who don’t like the picture. Not the presenters. Not the curator of the exhibition.[/quote]
What? Just like the Nas video, I am sure Nas knew he wasn’t Jesus. Once again, using the crucifixion as a metaphore does not mean a literal portrayal of Christ OR imply insulting the idea of Christ.
What you are claiming now doesn’t even follow the definition YOU JUST QUOTED.
[quote]
It’s showing irreverance towards a person considered holy. And for the record, it doesn’t offend me and I don’t support blasphemy laws. I’m just stating facts.[/quote]
How is it showing “irreverence”? Please list out the ways in which it shows this.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
This is art. To claim what an artist is “clearly” trying to portray implies you know the artist personally…
[/quote]
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.
A cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns and arms outstretched is showing irreverence towards a person considered holy.
Yes it does. I just quoted it again.
It’s showing irreverence by likening a specific person to Jesus or symbolising some parallel between them. If you can’t see why a cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns doesn’t show a lack of respect then I don’t know how else to explain it to you.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[quote]
A cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns and arms outstretched is showing irreverence towards a person considered holy.[/quote]
How? if you stretch your arms out, this means you are insulting Jesus?
If you wear a crown of thorns at all, ever, this means you are insulting Jesus?
Uh, no, it doesn’t show how this is INSULTING Jesus Christ.
[quote]
It’s showing irreverence by likening a specific person to Jesus or symbolising some parallel between them. If you can’t see why a cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns doesn’t show a lack of respect then I don’t know how else to explain it to you.[/quote]
Wait, showing ANY parallel at all between the suffering of Jesus and the suffering of any other human is “irreverence”?
I asked you HOW it is insulting Jesus Christ. You have not shown that yet.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
I can be pretty certain that the artist is using the symbolism of Jesus superimposed over Obama.
I didn’t use the word insulting. I quoted irreverence towards a person considered holy.
Showing irreverence towards a person considered holy.
Depends on the context. A cartoon-like picture of a politician wearing a crown of thorns? Yes, that would be showing irreverence.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
That being said, the crown of thorns is only a reference to Jesus if you choose to interpret it that way, otherwise it’s just a symbol of suffering and burden. Maybe people are offended by this because they’re looking to be offended. [/quote]
Basically this. unless a crown of thorns alone now equals “Jesus”, then there is no way you can label it “blasphemy”.
Everyone who wears a crown of thorns in a picture is literally trying to be Jesus Christ?[/quote]
strange I guess
whenever I hear “crown of thorns” I immediately think “Jesus”
If someone makes a pic of Obama with a crown of thorns - that doesn’t mean that Obama is trying to be Jesus, but I would say the artist is at least in some way playing with that idea
I imagine many a Christian would see that as blasphemy
It angers me a bit because I hate to see gov’t officials being glorified on a massive scale as is happening today.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
I can be pretty certain that the artist is using the symbolism of Jesus superimposed over Obama.[/quote]
So what? That doesn’t mean you know the artist’s intent. He may HATE Obama for all you know. You are using your own emotional bias to cloud your judgment of what INSULTING means.
ir·rev·er·ence (-rvr-ns)
n.
- Lack of reverence or due respect.
- A disrespectful act or remark.
Goodness, the use of semantics is boring.
[quote]
Depends on the context. A cartoon-like picture of a politician wearing a crown of thorns? Yes, that would be showing irreverence.[/quote]
Why? Because he is a politician? You are not telling anyone WHY or HOW it is showing all of this irreverence/DISRESPECT.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
His intent was to use the symbolism - some will consider that as lacking respect, and blasphemous.
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
His intent was to use the symbolism - some will consider that as lacking respect, and blasphemous.[/quote]
Use of the metaphore at all is a lack of respect?
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
His intent was to use the symbolism - some will consider that as lacking respect, and blasphemous.[/quote]
By “symbolism” we’re talking religious symbolism, applied to nonreligious figures.
Yeah, one could logically call that as disrespect, and blasphemy. Even STILL if Obama is being attacked - think about it
Let me make this clear…the Nas video should actually produce more emotions of “irreverence” considering he actually reproduced the entire walk and crucifixion. That picture in the OP is of a guy with a crown of thorns with his arms out. It is not mimicking Jesus in any other way than to symbolize (I assume) a metaphore for suffering or attack.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
So what? That doesn’t mean you know the artist’s intent. He may HATE Obama for all you know. You are using your own emotional bias to cloud your judgment of what INSULTING means.
[/quote]
Again, no. I can be pretty certain that an artist who likens Obama to Jesus does not hate Obama.
For one thing yes.
[quote]
You are not telling anyone WHY or HOW it is showing all of this irreverence/DISRESPECT.[/quote]
By making a flippant analogy likening a politician to Jesus. As I said, if you can’t see how that is showing disrespect then I don’t know how else to explain it to you.
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
His intent was to use the symbolism - some will consider that as lacking respect, and blasphemous.[/quote]
By “symbolism” we’re talking religious symbolism, applied to nonreligious figures.
Yeah, one could logically call that as disrespect, and blasphemy. Even STILL if Obama is being attacked - think about it[/quote]
Does any application of any religious symbolism equal “blasphemy”?
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
Again, no. I can be pretty certain that an artist who likens Obama to Jesus does not hate Obama.[/quote]
Assumption much? He could be making a statement about the media for all you know.
You know what they say about assuming shit.
[quote]
By making a flippant analogy likening a politician to Jesus. As I said, if you can’t see how that is showing disrespect then I don’t know how else to explain it to you.[/quote]
How is it “flippant”?
flip·pant (flpnt)
adj.
- Marked by disrespectful levity or casualness; pert.
- Archaic Talkative; voluble.
More semantics.
HOW is it showing insult, disrespect, irreverence or flippancy?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
No, it doesn’t imply that. Using the symbolism of Jesus is something I can recognise without personally knowing the artist.[/quote]
? Uh, yes, he used the symbolism. No, that does not mean you know his intent for sure.
[/quote]
His intent was to use the symbolism - some will consider that as lacking respect, and blasphemous.[/quote]
By “symbolism” we’re talking religious symbolism, applied to nonreligious figures.
Yeah, one could logically call that as disrespect, and blasphemy. Even STILL if Obama is being attacked - think about it[/quote]
Does any application of any religious symbolism equal “blasphemy”?[/quote]
hhhmmmm… I’m a bit simple minded and prefer to keep it simple and specific to this case
In this case it is supposed symbolism for the Almighty, Creator Of The Universe.
In other words - you make a point, probably not. I could have chose my words better. But in this case it’s not a stretch really
I’m not insulted personally by it by I can definitely see how others would be. X, I think it has more to do with the fact that the crown of thorns is a generally thought of as a Christian symbol coupled with the outstretched arms. It is easy to see the likeness to Jesus, I do not know if that was the artist’s intent, but it seems like it.
Its disrespectful because Jesus is a religious figure, to compare a human (any human really) to him (however symbolically) is very disrespectful to those who hold Jesus as God, I would guess.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Assumption much? He could be making a statement about the media for all you know.
You know what they say about assuming shit.
[/quote]
He could be making a statement about German Beer or sinusitis or cabbages. But if all the information we have to go on is a cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns with his arms outstretched then we have to make a reasonable judgement, surely?
[quote]
How is it “flippant”?[/quote]
For starters, comparing any ‘suffering’ that the recently re-elected president has endured to the suffering of Jesus is flippant because:
- The two aren’t remotely comparable.
and
- Jesus is considered the son of God who endured suffering for the sake of all mankind. Whereas Obama is the son of a Communist philanderer and sailed through life with a silver spoon in his mouth. However, even if it were Mother Teresa the picture would still be blasphemous as it misappropriates the symbolism of Jesus and diminishes its importance by comparison with man.