Does this Upset You?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

He could be making a statement about German Beer or sinusitis or cabbages. But if all the information we have to go on is a cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns with his arms outstretched then we have to make a reasonable judgement, surely?
[/quote]

? Is viewing art about your “judgment”?

The last time you went to a museum, you spent time “judging” Da Vinci?

The point is, in art, it is about interpretation…and most artists people care about are usually making a statement that is NOT so easily “judged”. That is why Mona Lisa’s smile is still being debated today.

You are making the point that you KNOW the intent of the artist. You have no proof of this.

[quote]

For starters, comparing any ‘suffering’ that the recently re-elected president has endured to the suffering of Jesus is flippant because:

  • The two aren’t remotely comparable.

and

  • Jesus is considered the son of God who endured suffering for the sake of all mankind. Whereas Obama is the son of a Communist philanderer and sailed through life with a silver spoon in his mouth. However, even if it were Mother Teresa the picture would still be blasphemous as it misappropriates the symbolism of Jesus and diminishes its importance by comparison with man.[/quote]

? Once again, without knowing the artist’s intent, you can’t make these claims. You don’t know what he is “comparing”. You simply know he drew Obama with a crown of thorns. That’s it. If his “intent” was to show he he perceived the media’s portrayal, once again, that would make you wrong.

102

I think it’s HIGHLY over-suggestive to paint someone in reference to a deity after having spent only 2 years in the Senate, never run any public office, or ever ran a company of his own.

A great orator he is, after that…meh (shrug).

103

[quote]Professor X wrote:

? Is viewing art about your “judgment”?

The last time you went to a museum, you spent time “judging” Da Vinci?

[/quote]

I said make a judgement about what the artist is intending to portray.

Okay, let’s take a looksie then. Just googled the artist and surprise, surprise he’s a rabid leftist who has previously displayed a painting of a talk radio mic splattering blood over the word ‘HOPE.’ Gee, I was really surprised.

[quote]
? Once again, without knowing the artist’s intent, you can’t make these claims. You don’t know what he is “comparing”. You simply know he drew Obama with a crown of thorns. That’s it. If his “intent” was to show he he perceived the media’s portrayal, once again, that would make you wrong.[/quote]

No it wouldn’t. Because he would still be misappropriating religious symbolism to make a political statement.

104

I don’t know guys… Jesus seems like the type of person you wouldn’t want to cross…

105

^Ba-Zing! hahaha good one

106

To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?

107

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

He could be making a statement about German Beer or sinusitis or cabbages. But if all the information we have to go on is a cartoon-like picture of Obama wearing a crown of thorns with his arms outstretched then we have to make a reasonable judgement, surely?
[/quote]

? Is viewing art about your “judgment”?

The last time you went to a museum, you spent time “judging” Da Vinci?

The point is, in art, it is about interpretation…and most artists people care about are usually making a statement that is NOT so easily “judged”. That is why Mona Lisa’s smile is still being debated today.

You are making the point that you KNOW the intent of the artist. You have no proof of this.

[quote]

For starters, comparing any ‘suffering’ that the recently re-elected president has endured to the suffering of Jesus is flippant because:

  • The two aren’t remotely comparable.

and

  • Jesus is considered the son of God who endured suffering for the sake of all mankind. Whereas Obama is the son of a Communist philanderer and sailed through life with a silver spoon in his mouth. However, even if it were Mother Teresa the picture would still be blasphemous as it misappropriates the symbolism of Jesus and diminishes its importance by comparison with man.[/quote]

? Once again, without knowing the artist’s intent, you can’t make these claims. You don’t know what he is “comparing”. You simply know he drew Obama with a crown of thorns. That’s it. If his “intent” was to show he he perceived the media’s portrayal, once again, that would make you wrong.[/quote]

Artists participate in and appropriate their symbols from particular cultural contexts. They do not create symbols sui generis; if they did, those symbols would not be able to communicate to anyone except the artists themselves. You seem to be operating under the mistaken notion that the meaning of the symbols an author uses is inextricably bound to the author’s “intent,” but that is simply not the case. The author does not create the meanings of words or symbols, not if he wants to be understood. The symbols are part of the culture and thus have meaning independent of the “intent” of the author. Language precedes the individual. Consequently, whether the author did or did not know that the crown of thorns is a distinctively Christian symbol, the fact remains that, in out cultural matrix, it IS a distinctively Christian symbol, and consequently, it does provoke an allusion to Christ. Thus, for Christians, it IS offensive.

Here’s an example to make clear what I’m saying - if I call an African-American the N word, I can say all day long that I have given that word a different meaning, that I am using the N word as slang for “a real go-getter,” but despite my protestations, the fact remains that, in our cultural context, a white man using the N word is inherently derogatory. My “intent” is insignificant; I should recognize that I cannot go investing words with my own meanings and expecting someone else to catch my meanings.

108

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

Here’s an example to make clear what I’m saying - if I call an African-American the N word, I can say all day long that I have given that word a different meaning, that I am using the N word as slang for “a real go-getter,” but despite my protestations, the fact remains that, in our cultural context, a white man using the N word is inherently derogatory. My “intent” is insignificant; I should recognize that I cannot go investing words with my own meanings and expecting someone else to catch my meanings.[/quote]

This guy puts it very well.

Do a quick google search of “crown of thorns”. Basically every single search result is a direct reference to Jesus. Unless the guy who painted this has lived under a rock his whole life, he obviously knew exactly what kind of comparison he was making. And it’s an idiotic one, by any standards.

The Jesus of the Bible lived in poverty, worked hard with his own hands, was a bad orator, was ugly, was tortured and brutally killed for proclaiming the truth, and rather than preaching that government was to handle the poor, he told INDIVIDUALS to care for the poor among them.

Barack Hussein Obama did NOT grow up in poverty, had every educational and otherwise opportunity handed to him, has probably never even been physically beaten, relies on a smooth tongue to get his way rather than actions, And rather than give of his own money, would rather force everyone else to give theirs whether they like it or not.

Nope, not even close.

109

Is it offensive? Yes

Do I care? No

110

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?[/quote]

112

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

Here’s an example to make clear what I’m saying - if I call an African-American the N word, I can say all day long that I have given that word a different meaning, that I am using the N word as slang for “a real go-getter,” but despite my protestations, the fact remains that, in our cultural context, a white man using the N word is inherently derogatory. My “intent” is insignificant; I should recognize that I cannot go investing words with my own meanings and expecting someone else to catch my meanings.[/quote]

This guy puts it very well. >>>[/quote]He usually does. Except of course when his royal majesty disagrees with ME lol. Your point is well taken too. Obama and Jesus both have two eyes. And that’s about all they have in common.

113

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?[/quote]

[/quote]

You guys have to love how I get posts about racism from non-racist posts but people post things like this and no one bats an eye.

It is truly hilarious.

114

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?[/quote]

(bats eyelid) Now it’s everyone else’s turn.

115

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?[/quote]

(bats eyelid) Now it’s everyone else’s turn.[/quote]I actually didn’t see it until just now. I do hereby denounce both the mindset with which this post was delivered and the content it conveys. Further, whatever nugget of truth it may have had the potential for is irrevocably lost to the hateful, condescending and overtly racist package. OR… troll.

116

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]florelius wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
To be completely honst, there was a time when I viewed Barack Obama as a sort of savior of the American negroes, especially the youth.

I hoped that his historic rise to prominence, and the amount of support and promotion he received would inspire other negroes to act like civilized individuals, instead of worthless parasites who shoot people, steal things, and then complain about how it’s unfair that everyone hates them.

Basically, what im trying to say, is that I had hoped his story would inspire the American negro to act like something other than an undomesticated chimp, so while the picture does not offend me, it makes me feel disappointed that a golden opportunity was not capitalized on.

did i answer your question, prof?[/quote]

[/quote]

You guys have to love how I get posts about racism from non-racist posts but people post things like this and no one bats an eye.

It is truly hilarious.[/quote]

Well, pointing out that his post, indeed, was racist, would be a tad superfluous, dont you think?

117

Hey, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and burns crosses in yards like a duck, I reserve the right to yell out, “Look at that fucking DUCK!” whenever I feel like it.

That’s what my grandaddy fought in the war for.

118

[quote]hungry4more wrote:

[quote]KingKai25 wrote:

Here’s an example to make clear what I’m saying - if I call an African-American the N word, I can say all day long that I have given that word a different meaning, that I am using the N word as slang for “a real go-getter,” but despite my protestations, the fact remains that, in our cultural context, a white man using the N word is inherently derogatory. My “intent” is insignificant; I should recognize that I cannot go investing words with my own meanings and expecting someone else to catch my meanings.[/quote]

This guy puts it very well.

Do a quick google search of “crown of thorns”. Basically every single search result is a direct reference to Jesus. Unless the guy who painted this has lived under a rock his whole life, he obviously knew exactly what kind of comparison he was making. And it’s an idiotic one, by any standards.

The Jesus of the Bible lived in poverty, worked hard with his own hands, was a bad orator, was ugly, was tortured and brutally killed for proclaiming the truth, and rather than preaching that government was to handle the poor, he told INDIVIDUALS to care for the poor among them.

Barack Hussein Obama did NOT grow up in poverty, had every educational and otherwise opportunity handed to him, has probably never even been physically beaten, relies on a smooth tongue to get his way rather than actions, And rather than give of his own money, would rather force everyone else to give theirs whether they like it or not.

Nope, not even close. [/quote]

LOL.

I don’t think anyone is saying this piece of art will be used in museums 300 years from now to represent our contribution to history.

I think it’s cheaper than those rugs with lions on them you buy at flea markets…right next to the black lights and lava lamps.

I am also not sure why you think anyone think he isn’t referencing Christ at all. That isn’t the point. BLASPHEMY implies mockery or insult. Making a reference or a metaphore is the same?

119

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Hey, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck and burns crosses in yards like a duck, I reserve the right to yell out, “Look at that fucking DUCK!” whenever I feel like it.

That’s what my grandaddy fought in the war for.[/quote]Yer gittin worse Doc. This is the most idiotic thing I’ve ever read in these forums. You go ahead n reserve all the rights you want, but if you go around tellin people about talking ducks burning crosses on your lawn, there will be folks lookin to talk to you who won’t take no for an answer.

120

If James Bond can make racist posts on this forum, I can talk about racist talkin’ ducks from Alabama.