interview with Martin he posted link on his twitter today
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
wouldnt 3 hours before bed also have to do with digestion? some people would be unable to digest before lights out also there would be a ever fluxing issue of consistant bed times and one of actual sleep times. just because you lie down doesnt mean youre sleeping. if youre getting 7 hrs and you stop eating 3 before arent you technically fasting for 10hrs?
I havent read anything from Aragon - only heard that he is a complete moron but like I said I havent read anything from him. Il get on it.
at the end of the day - and i am looking into it as to not have a dogmatic opinion - im not with the simple equation of body weight = cal in vs cal out. Im also mainly just concerned with body fat not body weight, this law is set up for body weight, from what ive seen. If anyone can post links on studies or what not I would love to read em. I know I hold fat on my body due to metabolic problems such as insulin sensitivity issues and some slight hormonal I dont think it has to do with cals because I believe my cals would b too low for day to day basis anyway. I only eat 2x a day and try to pack everything into those two meals. [/quote]
Alan Aragon is an actual dietetic professional and publishes a monthly research review. The people who are telling you he is “a complete moron” are charlatans or brainwashed followers of charlatans.
I’m sorry I love T-Nation but knocking Alan Aragon and Martin Berkhan is some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.
Please read up on some of their stuff. They know their shit.
[quote]D Public wrote:
High leptin does NOT equal high metabolic rate…just normal
It operates as a defense mechanism against fat loss…when you restrict calories, your body deceases leptin…
when you increase calories(carbs mainly), your body raises leptin…but it has minimal effect on increasing metabolic rate beyond normal…
the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs…
That book seems super gimicky…he may have some factual science thrown in there…but, the actual application of science is poor…
[/quote]
High leptin does equal high metabolic rate you fucking idiot. The only problem is that with people that eat constantly leptin is not making its way to the brain properly, the brain cannot correctly sense how much leptin is in it’s body. Therefore the brain cannot sense if the body is starving or has enough food.
Leptin CONTROLS metabolic rate, idiot.
" the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs… " lol??
YOU need to read to REAL science. Byron has gone trough over 10 000 studies on leptin over the last 10 years and has 20 years of experience in helping people get their health on the rigth track.
ive been IF’ing for about a year and have tried all different feeding/fasting time combinations and number of meals eatern during the feeding window and was very meticulous with keeping nutrition n training the same to measure the difference in fat/weight loss and from my exp all combinatins worked the same . the only one i didnt try was 1 meal a day .
as for the leaving 5/6 hours between meals i think this is nonsense because people have been and still are losing fat n staying very fit/healthy eating every 2.5 to 3 hours a day which is what i used to do . also think about this i train fasted ( 10g bcaa) post work out i have 60g fast acting carbs , 2 hours later (when my blood sugar drops) ill have another 40g fast acting carbs 2 hours after that all carbs from veg’s(my last meal)so after my last meal ive got about 16/18 hours when ill be burning fat due to the deficet in cals n absense of insulin .
personally IF’ing makes dieting easier for me as i dont have the constant hunger that i did with 6 small meals a day and it fits my daily schedule.
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
wouldnt 3 hours before bed also have to do with digestion? some people would be unable to digest before lights out also there would be a ever fluxing issue of consistant bed times and one of actual sleep times. just because you lie down doesnt mean youre sleeping. if youre getting 7 hrs and you stop eating 3 before arent you technically fasting for 10hrs?
I havent read anything from Aragon - only heard that he is a complete moron but like I said I havent read anything from him. Il get on it.
at the end of the day - and i am looking into it as to not have a dogmatic opinion - im not with the simple equation of body weight = cal in vs cal out. Im also mainly just concerned with body fat not body weight, this law is set up for body weight, from what ive seen. If anyone can post links on studies or what not I would love to read em. I know I hold fat on my body due to metabolic problems such as insulin sensitivity issues and some slight hormonal I dont think it has to do with cals because I believe my cals would b too low for day to day basis anyway. I only eat 2x a day and try to pack everything into those two meals. [/quote]
Alan Aragon is an actual dietetic professional and publishes a monthly research review. The people who are telling you he is “a complete moron” are charlatans or brainwashed followers of charlatans.[/quote]
^This. Alan has a book out called “Girth Control”. It is a great book. Not your average read or for the novice lifter with surface level knowledge on nutrition. Kinda pricey but worth it.
I like Martins stuff and follow it (except cal counting) and I have spent part of the morning reading Aragons stuff. Really? Im surprised that he’s popular on here because he flip-flops opinions, tries to remain unbiased by concluding his articles with this “Im not gona say what I think Im just putting the evidence on the table” but then does in fact state his opinion. He is also very against TNation and its authors and members. Even claiming chocolate milk is better than Surge.
I think martin has more on the ball and has his program organized very well. Im very interested in reading his book (whenever it comes out).
Any women doing LG on here or anyone having their GF or wife doing it with em? Hows that going?
[quote]ultralars wrote:
High leptin does equal high metabolic rate you fucking idiot. The only problem is that with people that eat constantly leptin is not making its way to the brain properly, the brain cannot correctly sense how much leptin is in it’s body. Therefore the brain cannot sense if the body is starving or has enough food.
Leptin CONTROLS metabolic rate, idiot.
" the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs… " lol??
YOU need to read to REAL science. Byron has gone trough over 10 000 studies on leptin over the last 10 years and has 20 years of experience in helping people get their health on the rigth track. [/quote]
CHO OF increased plasma leptin concentrations by 28%, and 24 h EE by 7%. Basal metabolic rate and the energy expended during physical activity were not affected. FAT OF did not significantly change plasma leptin concentrations or energy expenditure. There was no relationship between changes in leptin concentrations and changes in energy expenditure, suggesting that leptin is not involved in the stimulation of energy metabolism during overfeeding. Interstitial subcutaneous glucose and lactate concentrations were not altered by CHO OF and FAT OF.
so leptin was elevated by 28% over baseline, yet there were no changes in energy expediture…dietary fat had no effect on raising leptin…
[quote]ultralars wrote:
High leptin does equal high metabolic rate you fucking idiot. The only problem is that with people that eat constantly leptin is not making its way to the brain properly, the brain cannot correctly sense how much leptin is in it’s body. Therefore the brain cannot sense if the body is starving or has enough food.
Leptin CONTROLS metabolic rate, idiot.
" the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs… " lol??
YOU need to read to REAL science. Byron has gone trough over 10 000 studies on leptin over the last 10 years and has 20 years of experience in helping people get their health on the rigth track. [/quote]
You know, most people tend to start threads in order to encourage a collection of ideas, to gather info from a variety of sources etc
But in this case, sure looks like we’ve got an OP hell-bent determined on jamming ONE book down our throats…
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I like Martins stuff and follow it (except cal counting) and I have spent part of the morning reading Aragons stuff. Really? Im surprised that he’s popular on here because he flip-flops opinions, tries to remain unbiased by concluding his articles with this “Im not gona say what I think Im just putting the evidence on the table” but then does in fact state his opinion. He is also very against TNation and its authors and members. Even claiming chocolate milk is better than Surge.
I think martin has more on the ball and has his program organized very well. Im very interested in reading his book (whenever it comes out).
Any women doing LG on here or anyone having their GF or wife doing it with em? Hows that going? [/quote]
Aragon’s stuff is all based on research, and a lot of what you will find is him interpreting and reviewing research. Studies are not always conclusive, so that may be the reason for “flip flopping”. Or, it may just be that you are mistaking his stance that moderation is usually the answer as him not taking a hard stance.
As far as the Surge vs. Chocolate milk debate, I refuse to bring that back up. BUT, if you believe that Surge is magical, then you’re either a charlatan, or have been tricked by one. He is against the authors and members here due to the actions taken by some of the authors on this site in attempts to discredit him that were very shady in nature. I’m not going into specifics but it’s all out there. This seems to be largely an exercise in your bias vs. reality and you discrediting any reality that doesn’t conform to your bias.
I tried Intermittent Fasting yesterday. I had diarrhea all day and everyone said I have a small penis. WTF gives? Intermittent fasting is so FAIL.
[quote]chillain wrote:
[quote]ultralars wrote:
High leptin does equal high metabolic rate you fucking idiot. The only problem is that with people that eat constantly leptin is not making its way to the brain properly, the brain cannot correctly sense how much leptin is in it’s body. Therefore the brain cannot sense if the body is starving or has enough food.
Leptin CONTROLS metabolic rate, idiot.
" the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs… " lol??
YOU need to read to REAL science. Byron has gone trough over 10 000 studies on leptin over the last 10 years and has 20 years of experience in helping people get their health on the rigth track. [/quote]
You know, most people tend to start threads in order to encourage a collection of ideas, to gather info from a variety of sources etc
But in this case, sure looks like we’ve got an OP hell-bent determined on jamming ONE book down our throats…
[/quote] yeah i don’t i always do that, i find one thing i agree with or something, and then i figth to the death to get other people to agree with me on that thing too 
But to be honest, it works good for fat loss, but when it comes to strength and muscle mass it feels like i am loosing it. but i am on a diet tough so thats to be expected right?
[quote]D Public wrote:
[quote]ultralars wrote:
High leptin does equal high metabolic rate you fucking idiot. The only problem is that with people that eat constantly leptin is not making its way to the brain properly, the brain cannot correctly sense how much leptin is in it’s body. Therefore the brain cannot sense if the body is starving or has enough food.
Leptin CONTROLS metabolic rate, idiot.
" the only way to raise leptin during a calorie deficit is to do large refeeds of carbs… " lol??
YOU need to read to REAL science. Byron has gone trough over 10 000 studies on leptin over the last 10 years and has 20 years of experience in helping people get their health on the rigth track. [/quote]
CHO OF increased plasma leptin concentrations by 28%, and 24 h EE by 7%. Basal metabolic rate and the energy expended during physical activity were not affected. FAT OF did not significantly change plasma leptin concentrations or energy expenditure. There was no relationship between changes in leptin concentrations and changes in energy expenditure, suggesting that leptin is not involved in the stimulation of energy metabolism during overfeeding. Interstitial subcutaneous glucose and lactate concentrations were not altered by CHO OF and FAT OF.
so leptin was elevated by 28% over baseline, yet there were no changes in energy expediture…dietary fat had no effect on raising leptin… [/quote]
The function of leptin in nutrition, weight, and physiology
Control of food intake via leptin receptors in the hypothalamus.
Central regulation of energy balance: inputs, outputs and leptin resistance.
Role of adipose tissue in body-weight regulation: mechanisms regulating leptin production and energy balance.
This study explains that appetite is regulated primary by leptin, which input from numerous other signals. Bringing these signals into harmony is a key reason why factors such as meal size and meal timing are so important to proper leptin function ( not just calorie intake in a day)
The most basic leptin problem is called leptin resistance. It means that leptin does not enter the brain. One reason for this is that high triglycerides in the blood , from excess eating, are blocking entry to the brain, The body starts to think it’s starving. As problems sett in, fat cells expand and get clogged, another way leptin is disturbed. Swollen fat cells signal the liver to make exstra cholesterol. Improper dieting (starvation) may induce weigth loss; However it is invariably followed by weight gain.
Triglycerides induce leptin resistance at the blood-brain barrier.
Leptin signaling, adiposity, and energy balance.
thats enough, you get he pictures. Byron bases his stuff on science…
and now i cant be botherd with writing more so
dude I’m glad you posted all those studies, but there is none that show that leptin increases metabolic rate in a caloric surplus. It stops people from getting fat by decreasing hunger. People who are prone to be fat gain tend have less sensitivity to the signal. as you stated, it may have soemthing to do with triglycerides blocking leptin at Blood brain barrier.
The book is not aimed at bodybuilders. People on this site are interested in extreme physique enhancement. I’m certain Byron would admit that the diet is not ideal for a bodybuilder intrested in getting to sub 8% bf. If you are not naturally ripped, you need to be very meticulous to get to that level. you need to track your macros/cals everyday. It doesn’t matter if you use IFing or eat 6x a day…You need to be tracking energy and making calculated decisions every week in regards to your macros/cals based on your rate of progress…
[quote]Stronghold wrote:
[quote]hipsr4runnin wrote:
I like Martins stuff and follow it (except cal counting) and I have spent part of the morning reading Aragons stuff. Really? Im surprised that he’s popular on here because he flip-flops opinions, tries to remain unbiased by concluding his articles with this “Im not gona say what I think Im just putting the evidence on the table” but then does in fact state his opinion. He is also very against TNation and its authors and members. Even claiming chocolate milk is better than Surge.
I think martin has more on the ball and has his program organized very well. Im very interested in reading his book (whenever it comes out).
Any women doing LG on here or anyone having their GF or wife doing it with em? Hows that going? [/quote]
Aragon’s stuff is all based on research, and a lot of what you will find is him interpreting and reviewing research. Studies are not always conclusive, so that may be the reason for “flip flopping”. Or, it may just be that you are mistaking his stance that moderation is usually the answer as him not taking a hard stance.
As far as the Surge vs. Chocolate milk debate, I refuse to bring that back up. BUT, if you believe that Surge is magical, then you’re either a charlatan, or have been tricked by one. He is against the authors and members here due to the actions taken by some of the authors on this site in attempts to discredit him that were very shady in nature. I’m not going into specifics but it’s all out there. This seems to be largely an exercise in your bias vs. reality and you discrediting any reality that doesn’t conform to your bias.[/quote]
While at first I thought you were just an arrogant asshole who likes to argue, I tend to enjoy your posts as there are mostly backed by reputable sources. I have to ask, what is a charlatan? Is it a Poliquin follower?
[quote]D Public wrote:
dude I’m glad you posted all those studies, but there is none that show that leptin increases metabolic rate in a caloric surplus. It stops people from getting fat by decreasing hunger. People who are prone to be fat gain tend have less sensitivity to the signal. as you stated, it may have soemthing to do with triglycerides blocking leptin at Blood brain barrier.
The book is not aimed at bodybuilders. People on this site are interested in extreme physique enhancement. I’m certain Byron would admit that the diet is not ideal for a bodybuilder intrested in getting to sub 8% bf. If you are not naturally ripped, you need to be very meticulous to get to that level. you need to track your macros/cals everyday. It doesn’t matter if you use IFing or eat 6x a day…You need to be tracking energy and making calculated decisions every week in regards to your macros/cals based on your rate of progress…
[/quote]
Yeah thats something thats buggin me, does this diet work for bodybuilders or is it only for the obese or average guy?
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I have to ask, what is a charlatan? Is it a Poliquin follower? [/quote]
God damned amazing. Yes.
[quote]dnlcdstn wrote:
I have to ask, what is a charlatan? Is it a Poliquin follower? [/quote]
Come on, you can’t look this up?
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.
This is a great thread and I’m learning loads - thanks chaps.
In light of Martin NEVER writing a book, I am considering buying Girth Control. Does it give specifics on calories/meal plans (not actual meals, but macronutrients) or is it all science studies and conclusions?
[quote]toocul4u wrote:
humans are not bomb calorimeters. humans have enzymes and hormones. that said, both quality and quantity of calorie matters. but calories in DO NOT EXACTLY = calories out in humans.[/quote]
So where do those extra calories go? Do “enzymes and hormones” cause that matter and the energy contained within to simply evaporate?