Doctors Planning Exit Under Obamacare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

Sorry, I don’t think a lot of people understand how long it takes before the typical doctor is in the black after school.[/quote]

Yeah, and some in this thread don’t have a single clue as to how much work the typical doctor does to earn the salary they earn that goes to pay off school for the most part for the better part of a lifetime. [/quote]

Next time the 3AM ER doc is putting someone’s face back together after a DUI car wreck we can all insult their lack of awareness of vitamins and minerals.
[/quote]
Nutrition has to do with prevention and treatment of disease not acute injuries, which western medicine has done a good job with.[/quote]

Take a look around the country. You honestly think an extra 15 minutes of nutrition with a patient, espousing the merits of blueberries and chicken is going to make that much of a difference? By the time a patient sees a physician, the cat is oftentimes out of the bag, anyway. “Preventive medicine” starts during childhood – learning eating habits, exercising, not smoking/drinking. As we all know, it is a lifestyle. People “know” they should exercise but they don’t. It doesn’t take much education to see yourself balloon to 300lbs and put two and two together and realize you should change. You don’t need an MD to tell you that.

In my first two years of med school, I studied 70-90 hours/week both basic and clinical topics. We had a nutrition class. It wasn’t much, but I’d argue medical expertise is more important than knowing blueberries are helpful and bread is bad. This is also a skewed population here. I could spend 2 hours with a patient repeating over and over again, “bread is bad.” And you know what? ALL of them will still go home and eat bread. People’s habits are difficult to break. The average poster here could go without bread, but you are seriously overestimating how helpful nutritional expertise would be in MD’s training. Again, take a look around the country.

And, btw, with 200k in debt (public med school) and my first real paycheck coming in my late 20s (50-60k), after missing family events, barbecues, weddings and birthdays, yes I want to start earning money and having a good life when I am done with residency. Maybe once I pay off my med school mortgage, I’ll actually get a real mortgage. I knew I would sacrifice, but I have also earned my future salary.

122

[quote]engerland66 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

Sorry, I don’t think a lot of people understand how long it takes before the typical doctor is in the black after school.[/quote]

Yeah, and some in this thread don’t have a single clue as to how much work the typical doctor does to earn the salary they earn that goes to pay off school for the most part for the better part of a lifetime. [/quote]

Next time the 3AM ER doc is putting someone’s face back together after a DUI car wreck we can all insult their lack of awareness of vitamins and minerals.
[/quote]
Nutrition has to do with prevention and treatment of disease not acute injuries, which western medicine has done a good job with.[/quote]

Take a look around the country. You honestly think an extra 15 minutes of nutrition with a patient, espousing the merits of blueberries and chicken is going to make that much of a difference? By the time a patient sees a physician, the cat is oftentimes out of the bag, anyway. “Preventive medicine” starts during childhood – learning eating habits, exercising, not smoking/drinking. As we all know, it is a lifestyle. People “know” they should exercise but they don’t. It doesn’t take much education to see yourself balloon to 300lbs and put two and two together and realize you should change. You don’t need an MD to tell you that.

In my first two years of med school, I studied 70-90 hours/week both basic and clinical topics. We had a nutrition class. It wasn’t much, but I’d argue medical expertise is more important than knowing blueberries are helpful and bread is bad. This is also a skewed population here. I could spend 2 hours with a patient repeating over and over again, “bread is bad.” And you know what? ALL of them will still go home and eat bread. People’s habits are difficult to break. The average poster here could go without bread, but you are seriously overestimating how helpful nutritional expertise would be in MD’s training. Again, take a look around the country.

And, btw, with 200k in debt (public med school) and my first real paycheck coming in my late 20s (50-60k), after missing family events, barbecues, weddings and birthdays, yes I want to start earning money and having a good life when I am done with residency. Maybe once I pay off my med school mortgage, I’ll actually get a real mortgage. I knew I would sacrifice, but I have also earned my future salary.[/quote]

Hmmm…I was told by a progressive physician to go gluten-free and most of my issues have disappeared. If I would have just listened to the first classically trained doctor I’d be shooting up with pharmaceuticals everyday and continued to eat gluten having no idea it was the catalyst of my problems. Nutrition makes more of a difference than you know or are willing to admit to in this thread. And should be a centerpiece in med school, but it isn’t. Then again you can’t make a lot of money off of it which is one of the reasons why you only have one semester of it.

And I’m against the high cost of schooling in this country. Stop the immoral wars and healthcare and schooling could probably be paid for. We would have a healthier,more educated and safer public.

124

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
I am seeing more come out of my check each month to pay for those who don’t and aren’t. Sounds fair… Not.[/quote]

This sounds like its on the same level of bullshit that you were spewing in the Red State vs. Blue State violent crime discussion, which you conveniently never posted in after I posted the actual statistics.

So please explain to us how your tax burden has changed over the past 5 years? That would be especially strange considering the lack of change in tax brackets and SS/Medicare deductions. Unless of course you would have us to believe you make $500k+ per year lol
[/quote]

I didn’t respond to you because you came at me like a fucking dickhead
[/quote]

You could have really stopped here…nothing rational or level headed has ever come out of his mouth in this forum.

125

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

…Stop the immoral wars and healthcare and schooling could probably be paid for. We would have a healthier,more educated and safer public.
[/quote]

Even if the so called immoral wars ceased where in the world would the federal government find the authority in the constitution to fund healthcare and schooling?

By the way, please cite a “moral” war since I’m inferring you have distinctions in that regard.[/quote]

Not sure I can find a moral war so what is your point? Same place they find the ability to commence war without a congressional say so. But in this respect we have a more healthy population. Also make a paradigm shift in what constitutes health in med school. Nutrition should be a primary concern in regards to the prevention of and treatment of disease.

127

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Curious what American doctors make compared to the rest of the world?[/quote]

What would it matter?

[/quote]
Interesting to note. To see what the differences are so you can trace the psychology.[/quote]

So you are surprised that somebody who works their asses off to get good grades from Jr. High on through college, JUST so they can get into med school and spend 10’s of thousands of dollars …JUST so they can go intern in a hospital for peanuts…might want to make some money after they are out?

SHOCKING.

We have the best doctors in the world, and they are paid accordingly…if you are jealous, go to med school.[/quote]
First of all schooling in this country is way too expensive. Secondly I can’t say that we have the best doctors in the world. They are woefully ignorant of nutrition. I don’t care if they want to make some money just curious what their counterparts in the world make and what their schooling costs them? Is that a sin?[/quote]

That’s what nutritionists are for.

128

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
Blue Cross sent me a check for 9.38 because they didn’t use 80% of premiums for health care because of Obamacare. So make sure you divide that by 12 and put it in your zero based budget. I think they gave me like 6 dollars last year too. Anyone know any good mutual funds?[/quote]

It probably cost more in admin & overhead to send you that check than you put in your account. lol[/quote]

Well as far as I see it Obamacare has saved me a little over 78 cents a month on health insurance. I know that for positive because I put it into a calculator. Nevermind the fact that in the 4 years I’ve had to pay my own insurance my premium has gone up 18 dollars per month.[/quote]

Lucky you, mine went up $27 per month over the last two years. I’ve never received a check back.

129

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

…Stop the immoral wars and healthcare and schooling could probably be paid for. We would have a healthier,more educated and safer public.
[/quote]

Even if the so called immoral wars ceased where in the world would the federal government find the authority in the constitution to fund healthcare and schooling?

By the way, please cite a “moral” war since I’m inferring you have distinctions in that regard.[/quote]

Not sure I can find a moral war so what is your point? Same place they find the ability to commence war without a congressional say so. But in this respect we have a more healthy population. Also make a paradigm shift in what constitutes health in med school. Nutrition should be a primary concern in regards to the prevention of and treatment of disease.
[/quote]

Oh, I see, you like to play dodgeball. OK.[/quote]

Does this guy realize that there is an entire field of doctors who tell people how to eat? They don’t cost very much…they mostly just repeat what the government says anyway, balanced diet, low fat, no red meat, a lot of “whole” grains, in general bad advice.

And, he wants the government to educate doctors in nutrition? That’s great.

130

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

…Stop the immoral wars and healthcare and schooling could probably be paid for. We would have a healthier,more educated and safer public.
[/quote]

Even if the so called immoral wars ceased where in the world would the federal government find the authority in the constitution to fund healthcare and schooling?

By the way, please cite a “moral” war since I’m inferring you have distinctions in that regard.[/quote]

Not sure I can find a moral war so what is your point? Same place they find the ability to commence war without a congressional say so. But in this respect we have a more healthy population. Also make a paradigm shift in what constitutes health in med school. Nutrition should be a primary concern in regards to the prevention of and treatment of disease.
[/quote]

What exactly about nutrition should be taught? On this site alone there are hundreds of diets and everyone thinks theirs is the best. Did you doctor run a food panel on you to suggest you stop eating gluten or what it a blind guess?

131

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Does this guy realize that there is an entire field of doctors who tell people how to eat? They don’t cost very much…they mostly just repeat what the government says anyway, balanced diet, low fat, no red meat, a lot of “whole” grains, in general bad advice.

And, he wants the government to educate doctors in nutrition? That’s great.[/quote]

Oh, is this the part where people start blaming the USDA for America’s eating disorder(s)?

132

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
What exactly about nutrition should be taught?[/quote]

While I personally don’t consider it to be perfect, many would do just fine with the advice commonly doled out if they actually followed it.

But then, I don’t get my POV from the latest “Paleo-approved” article… so what do I know.

133

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:
What exactly about nutrition should be taught?[/quote]

While I personally don’t consider it to be perfect, many would do just fine with the advice commonly doled out if they actually followed it.

But then, I don’t get my POV from the latest “Paleo-approved” article… so what do I know.[/quote]

That’s the problem though, isn’t it? You’ll be hard pressed to find a doctor that doesn’t recommend increasing vegetable intake, decreasing caloric intake, and increasing exercise. You can train doctors for 30 years on these subjects but if patient compliance is lacking then what’s the point?

135

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Does this guy realize that there is an entire field of doctors who tell people how to eat? They don’t cost very much…they mostly just repeat what the government says anyway, balanced diet, low fat, no red meat, a lot of “whole” grains, in general bad advice.

And, he wants the government to educate doctors in nutrition? That’s great.[/quote]

Oh, is this the part where people start blaming the USDA for America’s eating disorder(s)?[/quote]

Red herring.

137

Wait, have you guys looked at the food pyramid or the new my plate thing?

These are the same people that ordinary people trying to lose weight should eat mostly bread and pasta. And eat trans fat instead of god given saturated fat.

And you want them teaching our children how to be healthy? really?

The government stepping in and “teaching” the population to be healthy is a HUGE part of the reason we are so fat and disease ridden in the first place.

139

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

…Stop the immoral wars and healthcare and schooling could probably be paid for. We would have a healthier,more educated and safer public.
[/quote]

Even if the so called immoral wars ceased where in the world would the federal government find the authority in the constitution to fund healthcare and schooling?

By the way, please cite a “moral” war since I’m inferring you have distinctions in that regard.[/quote]

Not sure I can find a moral war so what is your point? Same place they find the ability to commence war without a congressional say so. But in this respect we have a more healthy population. Also make a paradigm shift in what constitutes health in med school. Nutrition should be a primary concern in regards to the prevention of and treatment of disease.
[/quote]

What exactly about nutrition should be taught? On this site alone there are hundreds of diets and everyone thinks theirs is the best. Did you doctor run a food panel on you to suggest you stop eating gluten or what it a blind guess?
[/quote]
Nutrition ought to be taught as it is a primary reason for the prevention of and treatment of disease. Do you think they should all learn about pharmaceuticals for the treatment of disease. I know there is plenty of good info on this website but people should not have to become detectives to find out about nutrition. Doctors should know much more than they do. Nutrition should be front and center, not the stupid pharmaceutical commercials.

My gluten allergy was discovered by a progressive doctor who told me some people that have my symptoms are allergic to gluten. And viola that was the main catalyst of my issues. And to think the other classically trained doctor wanted me to shoot up with pharmaceuticals everyday and didn’t have a clue about the symptoms of gluten allergies.

Fuck Western medicine and the pharmaceutical companies!

140

[quote]engerland66 wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

Sorry, I don’t think a lot of people understand how long it takes before the typical doctor is in the black after school.[/quote]

Yeah, and some in this thread don’t have a single clue as to how much work the typical doctor does to earn the salary they earn that goes to pay off school for the most part for the better part of a lifetime. [/quote]

Next time the 3AM ER doc is putting someone’s face back together after a DUI car wreck we can all insult their lack of awareness of vitamins and minerals.
[/quote]
Nutrition has to do with prevention and treatment of disease not acute injuries, which western medicine has done a good job with.[/quote]

Take a look around the country. You honestly think an extra 15 minutes of nutrition with a patient, espousing the merits of blueberries and chicken is going to make that much of a difference? By the time a patient sees a physician, the cat is oftentimes out of the bag, anyway. “Preventive medicine” starts during childhood – learning eating habits, exercising, not smoking/drinking. As we all know, it is a lifestyle. People “know” they should exercise but they don’t. It doesn’t take much education to see yourself balloon to 300lbs and put two and two together and realize you should change. You don’t need an MD to tell you that.

In my first two years of med school, I studied 70-90 hours/week both basic and clinical topics. We had a nutrition class. It wasn’t much, but I’d argue medical expertise is more important than knowing blueberries are helpful and bread is bad. This is also a skewed population here. I could spend 2 hours with a patient repeating over and over again, “bread is bad.” And you know what? ALL of them will still go home and eat bread. People’s habits are difficult to break. The average poster here could go without bread, but you are seriously overestimating how helpful nutritional expertise would be in MD’s training. Again, take a look around the country.

And, btw, with 200k in debt (public med school) and my first real paycheck coming in my late 20s (50-60k), after missing family events, barbecues, weddings and birthdays, yes I want to start earning money and having a good life when I am done with residency. Maybe once I pay off my med school mortgage, I’ll actually get a real mortgage. I knew I would sacrifice, but I have also earned my future salary.[/quote]

Don’t bother. I posted an entire novel on the the subject replete with sourced info and he didn’t so much as understand the basic argument present much less reply. Started with all the ideological projection nonsense again.

I am firmly in your camp. Very few people have any bloody idea what it means to work that much in school, save perhaps law schoolers, and those same people do not understand why doctors might actually deserve the salary. I mean, hey school’s over right? Oh wait, you still work 70+ hours a week. Right. But you’re supposed to keep up with the 21 hours a day of medical reading too, you know so you can be a GOOD PHYSICIAN.

/sarcasm.