Doctors Planning Exit Under Obamacare

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
222

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

You fail to counter the status quo system. IT IS YOU WHO IS SUBSERVIENT.
[/quote]

Progressivism and statism are the status quo. I counter them at every turn.

You are the dumb sucker who surrenders his liberty for safety. You are the slave who offers his wrists and ankles to be manacled in exchange for “stuff.”[/quote]
And you are the fool who probably votes against his own economic interests in the name of ideology. The status quo is the corporations more so than the government. If you want to defend a system that forces it’s public into BK, costs twice as much as the rest of the world and isn’t even ranked number 1 with all it’s outrageous costs then that is all on you brother.[/quote]

Yes, and he would like it to remain “all on him”.

It is you who wants to take his choice away. [/quote]

You are so concerned with choice. I bet you were against the notion of choice when one would have to choose between private and public healthcare. Or were you for that choice?[/quote]

No, because that “choice” means robbing other people.

I am also not concerned with the choice of rapists and bankrobbers. [/quote]
In the overall argument no one has made evidentiary claims as to why it is better to pay twice as much as everyone else in the world for healthcare and why this system forces the public into BK.[/quote]

Actually multiple people have, you just refuse to listen or acknowledge them. Multiple people who have been in other countries or live in other countries with socialized healthcare have told you it sucks and is horrible unless again you are wealthy. I’d rather pay double and actually get care than get raped and actually pay more through taxes eventually and get shit care.

Again, you have dodged the question multiple times now. Has you ever been to a hospital or ER needing care in the countries you seem to tout as bring so progressive and humanitarian with healthcare?
[/quote]
“shit care” then what is the reason the U.S. is not even ranked in the top 10 in overall healthcare?

No I have never been to another country but know plenty of people whom I work with that are from other countries and it’s funny how they do not complain about their healthcare.

[/quote]

Again you have ZERO first hand experience. Rankings based on what? You do realize the best care in the world is in the US. Go ahead go have surgery in a socialized medicine country, if you can even get in to have said surgery before you die. Unless you have the cash of course to pay it outright.

Yeah they are not complaining because they are now in the US.

Does our healthcare system need reform? Yes. Is socialized medicine the answer? NO.

And by government run healthcare you mean something like the VA? Ask any vet. VA care blows donkey dick.

223

[quote]Bauber wrote:

And by government run healthcare you mean something like the VA? Ask any vet. VA care blows donkey dick.[/quote]

Yup

224

Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out…

225

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out… [/quote]

BUT BRO EVERYONE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE AND IT WILL BE CHEAP!!!

Never mind that you can’t access it or die waiting.

226

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

And by government run healthcare you mean something like the VA? Ask any vet. VA care blows donkey dick.[/quote]

Yup [/quote]

+1

227

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

And by government run healthcare you mean something like the VA? Ask any vet. VA care blows donkey dick.[/quote]

Yup [/quote]

+1[/quote]

My father-in-law agrees. He was in Vietnam, and to this day he has never set foot in the VA because they will not see him in a short period of time. He has to wait 6 months. He is able to get in to his doctor on his private insurance usually within a week.

My Mom is on Medicare and she can not see a doctor for her well woman visit unless she makes an appointment 6 months out.

Socilized medicine is the way to go.

228

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out… [/quote]

BUT BRO EVERYONE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE AND IT WILL BE CHEAP!!!

[/quote]

I really dont’ understand why he insists that it is “cheaper” simply because the government reported monetary costs are “lower”.

He never factors in price fixing, opportunity costs, government intervention into treatments and treatment methods, wait times, etc.

229

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out… [/quote]

BUT BRO EVERYONE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE AND IT WILL BE CHEAP!!!

[/quote]

I really dont’ understand why he insists that it is “cheaper” simply because the government reported monetary costs are “lower”.

He never factors in price fixing, opportunity costs, government intervention into treatments and treatment methods, wait times, etc. [/quote]

Of course not, that’s what evil right wing economics does.

231

I don’t think people have any idea how bad this will be.

When my father was still alive, he flew back to Los Angeles from Rome to visit, and I took him to Kaiser to get another medical opinion about his cancer.

I brought him to Kaiser, where he got a scan he needed in about 30 minutes. When the doctor asked him why he didn’t get this done sooner, my dad told him that he was on a waiting list about 6 months long. The doctor shit himself in shock.

What you think is free or low-cost, is really a trade for timely adequate care.

If only the government would understand, there is truly no such thing as free.

232

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

What you think is free or low-cost, is really a trade for timely adequate care.[/quote]

This one trade off is a best case.

The trade could be for zero care at all. If the government chooses that a particular condition’s current treatment isn’t worth the cost, they will stop paying for it… What then?

It is either die, or go bankrupt getting care. Not much different than today.

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. Well, you’ll have less people going into the profession as the brightest will go to an industry where they are paid their worth, and research will dry up, as your reward becomes solely altruistic. (Their will be doctors that want to research, but less and less investors, private equity being one, that will invest in the research.)

[quote]
If only the government would understand, there is truly no such thing as free. [/quote]

They are politicians, it is free for them. They pay no price for being wrong with the grand scale level of ignorance of the voting populous.

POTUS goes on The View and Daily Show for a reason.

233

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…

234

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…[/quote]

So two evils.

I’ll take the evil that has to “compete” (Not that the government forces insurance companies to compete with each other,) over the evil that can always tax their way into the black…

235

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…[/quote]

If the Fed hadn’t invoked the all powerful commerce clause, we, could set the price.

236

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…[/quote]

So two evils.

I’ll take the evil that has to “compete” (Not that the government forces insurance companies to compete with each other,) over the evil that can always tax their way into the black…[/quote]

Maybe…but I am just making the point that many of those same doctors were complaining about the insurance companies ten years ago and planning early retirement because of it.

Doctor salaries have been DECREASING over the last decade, not increasing…which is one of the smaller reasons I chose dentistry…less insurance control so more of my money comes to me.

237

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out… [/quote]

BUT BRO EVERYONE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE AND IT WILL BE CHEAP!!!

[/quote]

I really dont’ understand why he insists that it is “cheaper” simply because the government reported monetary costs are “lower”.

He never factors in price fixing, opportunity costs, government intervention into treatments and treatment methods, wait times, etc. [/quote]

He doesn’t even understand how they calculate the overhead costs to give the “much lower than private sector insurance” result. I asked him that pointedly in another place. How can you say that such and such “costs less” if you don’t understand the methods by which they came to that calculation?

Another part of that question I asked him was whether he thought it was more appropriate to calculate it aggregately or on a per capita basis and why. Never got an answer to that either. This is actually a central question for his argument, but he didn’t answer and I honestly don’t think he knows. He did admit he didn’t know how they measured cost.

238

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Can you image healthcare for 314,000,000 people run by the VA? You’ll be booking appointments 18-24 months out… [/quote]

BUT BRO EVERYONE WILL HAVE HEALTH CARE AND IT WILL BE CHEAP!!!

[/quote]

I really dont’ understand why he insists that it is “cheaper” simply because the government reported monetary costs are “lower”.

He never factors in price fixing, opportunity costs, government intervention into treatments and treatment methods, wait times, etc. [/quote]

He doesn’t even understand how they calculate the overhead costs to give the “much lower than private sector insurance” result. I asked him that pointedly in another place. How can you say that such and such “costs less” if you don’t understand the methods by which they came to that calculation?

Another part of that question I asked him was whether he thought it was more appropriate to calculate it aggregately or on a per capita basis and why. Never got an answer to that either. This is actually a central question for his argument, but he didn’t answer and I honestly don’t think he knows. He did admit he didn’t know how they measured cost.[/quote]

Well he has, thus far, abandoned the minimum wage thread after posting a link proving himself wrong, so I wouldn’t expect much here.

239

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…[/quote]

As I believe Doc Skeptix has noted elsewhere Obamacare is going to entrench the current price setting schemes, only in a roundabout way. It doesn’t actually fix anything or change the schemes leading to problematic costs.

240

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

Then lets factor in the fact that government sets the price. [/quote]

Well, right now the insurance companies set the price…[/quote]

So two evils.

I’ll take the evil that has to “compete” (Not that the government forces insurance companies to compete with each other,) over the evil that can always tax their way into the black…[/quote]

Maybe…but I am just making the point that many of those same doctors were complaining about the insurance companies ten years ago and planning early retirement because of it.

Doctor salaries have been DECREASING over the last decade, not increasing…which is one of the smaller reasons I chose dentistry…less insurance control so more of my money comes to me.[/quote]

Seeing as you work in the industry, if you had a magic wand, what would you do? (If anything.)