I do not support a draft at all. I feel if a country does not support a war enough that enough people are volunteering, then they should not be at war in the first place.
If they started a draft for this war, I would go as it would be a disservice to my father who fought in Vietnam. I doubt I’d end up in combat though, as I have a college degree and work with computer systems and programming. I’d be more of a behind the scenes guy, especially with my vision and knees.
Hate to say it but that is exactly why we need a draft.
Nobody wants to fight but sometimes you have to. That is the price of living in a free nation. The individual doesn’t decide if the war is just or if they want to fight. That’s up to the elected leaders.
The possibility of a draft might be closer than a lot of us think. There are currently two bills, one in the House and one in the Senate, providing for the reinstitution of the draft. Men and women ages 18-26 (or 25, not sure) could be drafted as early as Spring 2005, according to a Vancouver media outlet.
http://www.vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/01/105146.php
You can find the text of the two bills, Senate 89 and House 163 on Thomas, I think.
That was a different time. And exactly what I was trying to say. In WWII and Korea nobody had a problem with serving. All I’m saying is todays society, the majority of draftees would be assholes. It’s only logical considering the majority of the guys I served with were bonus babies and had no patriotic involvement. Most the idiots we get in my unit now are all about college. None of them care about protecting and serving like those of us that came in under patriotic reasons.
See what I’m getting at?
Nathan
Lumpy,
Interesting post. You were dead wrong to sterotype people who support the Iraq War. We feel the pain of the soldiers and their families. We understand the sacrifice.
You stated: “I would personally be okay if a draft would be reinstated though. Why?”
I’ll answer for you, Lumpy. You know you couldn’t pass the physical. Therefore, it’s easy for you to call for the draft.
Most of those bills have been in and out since 99-2000. It’s just getting noticed now, cause of current events. It almost went through in 2000.
Nathan
I agree with Hedo that everyone should be required to serve their country for two years. I think you should be able to chose whether it is in the military or in some CCC type of set up.
Well Ive got some news that might not sound that great to any on this forum. I got out a little over 1 1/2 years ago. I have been ordered back to take an active duty physical which I did, I have also been ordered to update all of my records, current address, etc. which I did. I have most recently been informed that I need to train to keep my military training up to date. This is not normal for an IRR citizen.
…basically, there are movements in the DOD to activate IRR, for those that dont know, this is recalling those that have served before and finished their commitment. The idea is to prevent a draft of those that never have volunteered, but, in a way, makes those of us who have already served go back again before those who havent.
Now thats a pretty dry cut version. I sure as hell want to stay right where I am -doing what I do. I like my freedom. People have a right to disagree with the war. I do…as most on this forum can attest…
If there wasnt a draft in world war II, at best we would be fighting German occupation forces right now, at worst we would be speaking German.
However, Iraq is not Germany and this is not WWII. And we all realize this. WMD’s were a threat and if Saddam had been able to distribute them to terrorists he would have, I know I was training for WMD retrieval missions just prior to Sept 11. But, Saddam is captured, there are no WMD’s to be threatened by now(in Iraq). Anti-war people have a strong position. We wanted to give Iraqis a Revolution, instead we have given them a civil war (the most loathed event in our own history). I have friends from the Middle East and it is interesting to note that all of them advocate getting out of Dodge…more boots on the ground is not an answer.
We are using up resources, man power and economic, in Iraq. Most especially frigthening to me, is the loss of special operations forces. Bush realizes that these individuals are the best tool in the box for fighting a war on terrorism. We are expending this valuable resource in Iraq, and while some terrorists are moving into Iraq, a lot lie in wait across the globe. We must not use our resources putting ourselves in middle of a three way civil war.
Just as a note to Rangertab (I dont know your time in etc. but when I left SFOD was taking spec-4’s!!! Has this gotten any worse?)
To those that fear a draft
“The more intelligent you are the more courageous you must be”
This country is founded on regular men doing courageous things.
xMillertimex -
I have read your post and have agreed with your post. I am truly sorry about the possibility of you getting called up. As for me, I will be going back. I neither fear nor loathe that fact. The way I think about it is this: When I do get called back, I could die or I can again come back in one piece. Either way, I’m gonna kick some ass. You probably don’t have a choice when ol’ Uncle Sam comes a knockin’. But either way, you should perform your job as best you can to help this war come to as quick an end as possible, regardless of your standpoint on this war. Do your job, and get home safely. I want you home here under the banner of red, white, and blue as much as you do.
I’ll agree with you on the fact that the Iraqis are not like the Germans of old. But I do think that this war is just as dangerous a war as any, and must be fought with as much gallantry, intensity, and bravery as our predecessors fought with. I wish you the BEST of luck in this situation. If you don’t want to go, that’s fine. With you having already served your country, no one on this forum (or anywhere for that matter) should think less of you. I can see your frustration with the possibility of getting called up in a conflict that you are opposed to. I guess it is much easier for me to go since I am all for this war. I have a firm belief that anyone who wishes this country harm should suffer. This may sound bad, but I am pretty passionate about this subject having been under fire. Again, good luck and keep us posted. RLTW
rangertab75
In a lot of ways this war is more dangerous than most of before.
Do I want to go back? O hell no.
But, to be honest, I just hate getting up early…and running, and uniforms…well you get the point.
Plus, if I go back, its not like I get called up to Regt or the Squadron.
I get sent out into the great big army. AND you know how much “we” hate that.
O yea, and I like my hair. Although we were wearing that the we wanted there for awhile along with cowboy hats.
O ya, my response is yes I support a draft. There is no choice. Once all the volunteers and us (grudgingly re-volunteers) are dead what happens?
Hey Ranger
Did you guys get computers installed in those fancy new barracks or do you guys just not work and let 1st and 2nd do all the work.
I have officially become naseaus! This post just sickened me to my stomach.
“It’s ludacris to expect someone to sacrifice their life for something they don’t believe in.”
WTF do you believe in then?! How would you like it if your beliefs were infringed upon. How would you like it if Mr. Bush had the authority to tell you what to believe, and if you didn’t you would be imprisoned and killed?
You guys don’t understand the world we live in. You’re all so soft and babied! Here’s a fuckin idea; remove momma’s tit, reach down and grab hold, remind yourself that you’re a man (If you are) and protect your country. The only reason you’re able to sit on your ass and type away on your little lifting forum, is because better men than you died for your freedom!
But alas, you guys don’t care. You just want to sit around and point fingers, bitch about how it could be done better and talk around in circles, while better men than you undertake the load and do the job. You all are no T-men! You have no idea of sacrifice, commitment, esprit de corps, servitude, or anything that remotely resembles manhood. You’re all a bunch of chattering little women. I feel sorry for you all, because you’ll never know the pride that comes with service. Actually, I’m happy you never will!
So, go ahead, drink your protein shake, debate on your forum, but do yourself a favor and take down all your mirrors, it gotta hurt to look at your cowardly ass.
xMillertimex -
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You know I can’t tell you that. RLTW
rangertab75
Doogie said
“I agree with Hedo that everyone should be required to serve their country for two years. I think you should be able to chose whether it is in the military or in some CCC type of set up.”
Gee, doesn’t that sound a little bit like Socialism, which I know you hate? Mandatory service for the State? LOL
“There’s not an American … that doesn’t understand what we are engaged in today and what the prospects are for the future,” Senator Chuck Hagel told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on post-occupation Iraq.
“Why shouldn’t we ask all of our citizens to bear some responsibility and pay some price?” Hagel said, arguing that restoring compulsory military service would force “our citizens to understand the intensity and depth of challenges we face.”
The Nebraska Republican added that a draft, which was ended in the early 1970s, would spread the burden of military service in Iraq more equitably among various social strata.
“Those who are serving today and dying today are the middle class and lower middle class,” he observed.
The call to consider a imposing a draft comes just days after the Pentagon moved to extend the missions of some 20,000 of the 135,000 US troops in Iraq.
Some critics of the US-led occupation complain that military planners used too few troops to subdue Iraq, and insist that more military muscle will be needed to restore order.
The US-led military coalition was put under further strain by the announcement this week by coalition members Spain and Honduras that they would withdraw their military contingents from Iraq.
Meanwhile, witnesses at the hearing, including academics and former US officials, expressed concern about ongoing flareups of violence in Iraq this month – the bloodiest yet for US troops.
“I think it’s clear that pressures in Iraq have reached the boiling point,” said Samuel Berger, national security adviser during the Bill Clinton administration, who called for an increase in troops there, and a “genuine, non-grudging effort to internationalize the enterprise in Iraq, both military and civilian.”
“We’ve got to be prepared to give up our hammerlock on decision making in exchange for genuine burden sharing.”
Richard Perle, a former White House adviser who currently serves as a fellow at a conservative think tank, advised against adding troops or extending the date of handover of Iraqi sovereignty beyond the currently-set June 30 date.
“It is essential that we not delay the handover of sovereignty set for the end of June, even if there is continuing violence by those who know they have no place in a decent, democratic Iraq,” he said.
Perle also warned against entrusting the United Nations with the post-occupation administration of Iraq, saying UN involvement should be kept at “an absolute minimum.”
“A large UN contingent in Iraq … would do more harm than good,” Perle said.
“It would discourage the assumption of sovereignty by Iraqis themselves. It would drain resources urgently needed for the development of Iraq’s economy,” Perle said.
A senior Democrat meanwhile, lashed out at the White House for failing to send a top administration official to appear before the panel.
“I think it is outrageous that the administration has not provided every witness we’ve asked for,” said Senator Joseph Biden, the highest-ranking Democrat on the committee.
“The fact that they are not prepared to send a witness means that they are either totally incompetent and they don’t have anything to tell us … or they’re refusing to allow us to fulfill our constitutional responsibility” of congressional oversight, Biden said.
The committee’s Republican chairman, Richard Lugar, also slammed the White House for “inadequate planning and communication related to Iraq.”
Lumpy -
You know that Israel has mandatory service for both men and women. And don’t forget about mandatory service here in the states back in WWII and Vietnam. RLTW
rangertab75
Hey look at this way draft dodgers…you could be president one day!!! And think of all beautiful ass you will have access to!
Mandatory service? Are you shitting me? I am really playing hell believing that without a draft we would have lost WW2. That’s bunk. Casualties certainly would have been much higher. But eventually we’d get our shit together. Forcing people to fight is SLAVERY. If the country cannot raise sufficient men to fight then we do not deserve to win, but if a country FORCES men to fight then it’s no country of mine. LIFE <–great potential to die in combat, LIBERTY ← taking you away from home and losing many of your freedoms PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS <–fighting ain’t fun.
And another thing, I’m sick of hearing people say that it doesn’t affect us. Who is us? America? Fine, this may not affect America, but it affects our fucking species. I AM my brother’s keeper. What the fuck have most people done to EARN their freedom? Dick. Yet these are the ones that shout out loud and clear that we can’t help the Iraqis cause they won’t help themselves. Bush had it right on the money, “25 million Iraqis have EVERY right to freedom as Americans do.”
And as for me saying that I’d dodge a draft, I stand by that. But no man here rates to call me yellow. I fought in Op. Enduring Freedom and I’m trying my damdest to get deployed. Unfortunately it isn’t as easy as I’d hope. Which sucks because a lot of my comrades have been there far too long.
I do feel you Millertime. But yeah, we signed for 8 years, even if we only expected to work for 4. I love the corps deeply, but damn if I hate formations and the bullshit that goes along with fighting the good fight. Getting up at 0430 to stand in formation for a half hour so you could do a formation run for 20 minutes as a snail’s pace. What I don’t understand is that when I see the news I’m afflicted with extreme guilt for not being there. But neither yourself nor any of the guys that got out with me feel the same.
Semper Fi,
mikeyali
Isreal also has the lowest domestic crime rate in the world because everybody is armed, and all are fighting together, not against each other.
Nathan