I do military and now I’m starting BTN push press.
In the past I did a lot of DB seated and standing and military started just a while ago while trying BTNP and really like it.
Though I haven’t been consistent about getting stronger at them, now I really want to. My fav lifts-overhead.
snatch grip high pulls probably won’t work well with your routine, but they’ve done more for my “side” delts than lateral raises and overhead pressing alone.
[quote]Zoro wrote:
snatch grip high pulls probably won’t work well with your routine, but they’ve done more for my “side” delts than lateral raises and overhead pressing alone.
[/quote]
You’re doing it wrong.
nah, the delts and traps get prefatigued with the lat raises and OHP, and then i finish the session with snatch grip high pulls from the hang. Regular wide grip upright rows are just uncomfortable with heavy weight for me, so until I discovered the high pull my medial delts were shit.
Zoro is right. Try doing the snatch grip high pulls from the hang concentrating on bringing your elbows up and back and see if that doesn’t work your medial delts. Works great for mine.
What you’re both describing sounds like a cheated wide grip upright row to me. I did some olympic lifting many years go and was taught the high pulls as variations of the main olympic lifts, which have minimal involvement of the shoulders during the pulling portion save for a violent shrug. I can see the rear delts being worked hard as well, but i have a hard time imagining the side delts being involved in a manner which would bring significant hypertrophy.
I do not read many current articles so perhaps the defintions have changed. Could you describe this SGHP as it is defined now. I would apperciate it as i’m also looking for good shoulder exercises which bring minimal pain to my left shoulder. Thanks.
Hope I cover it adequately; bar, in my case, is about 4 inches above knee; shoulders over the bar, lats flexed; then start the movement by hip thrusts forward, legs straightening the bar moving into the hip crease–does it automatically in my case IF the lats are flexed; this gets the bar moving upward and the arms, as you know, in the regular snatch is to pull yout body under the bar, and to do this you are “pulling” your body down by means of the arms going up–elbows back–and flipping the bar over as your body goes under the bar.
In my case, I’m not pulling my body under the bar, I’m “pulling” it up, mostly with the hip and leg movement, This may not be the best wording but if you’ve done Olympic lifting I think you get what I mean. You said you did Olympic lifting? did you ever do snatch grip high pulls from blocks as part of that training? When I was doing snatch grip high pulls from blocks using Christian Thibadeau’s template, it thoroughly woked both my traps and medial and rear delts.
[quote]germanicus wrote:
Hope I cover it adequately; bar, in my case, is about 4 inches above knee; shoulders over the bar, lats flexed; then start the movement by hip thrusts forward, legs straightening the bar moving into the hip crease–does it automatically in my case IF the lats are flexed; this gets the bar moving upward and the arms, as you know, in the regular snatch is to pull yout body under the bar, and to do this you are “pulling” your body down by means of the arms going up–elbows back–and flipping the bar over as your body goes under the bar.
In my case, I’m not pulling my body under the bar, I’m “pulling” it up, mostly with the hip and leg movement, This may not be the best wording but if you’ve done Olympic lifting I think you get what I mean. You said you did Olympic lifting? did you ever do snatch grip high pulls from blocks as part of that training? When I was doing snatch grip high pulls from blocks using Christian Thibadeau’s template, it thoroughly woked both my traps and medial and rear delts. [/quote]
I did a short stint with a coach from a local atheletic association out of interest. This was because of Thib’s old Power Look article haha. Never got good at it.
Now, I’m not sure I’m reading it right, but what you are describing is a hip extension with an upright row somwhere during the lift.
From what I was taught, the “pulling yourself under the bar” part is just a mental cue to get into the catch position in the snatch. The arms don’t actually pull.
Any variation we did, including the snatch pull from blocks, was either to work on explosion or to overload the movement with less techinique involved, but the movement pattern stayed similar. Since the arms still do not do any real pulling, elbows are locked till after the shrug and the bar is in the air after the shrug portion, I don’t see how the side delts would be involved in any true variation of an olympic pull.
I’m not a stickler for terminology though. Since the SGHP done like you described has worked for you and others for side delt developement, i’m going to play round with it the next couple of workouts and see how it feels.
Thanks for the write up.
dt79, keep in mind that I was also doing standing barbell overhead pressing while working the snatch grip high pulls, so maybe it was the combo that helped the medial delts. Anyway, the “pulling your self under the bar” is a term used by Tommy Kono one of our best Olympic lifters ever.
Yup, not going to stop overhead pressing. Just needed some ideas to keep training interesting and painfree. Tommy Kono is a real freak.
Good luck in your training.
Cant OHP press right now, but NG DB press is pain free for me at least.
Would like to learn this “high pull for BBers” style, but need a youtube instruction or something.
[quote]germanicus wrote:
Hope I cover it adequately; bar, in my case, is about 4 inches above knee; shoulders over the bar, lats flexed; then start the movement by hip thrusts forward, legs straightening the bar moving into the hip crease–does it automatically in my case IF the lats are flexed; this gets the bar moving upward and the arms, as you know, in the regular snatch is to pull yout body under the bar, and to do this you are “pulling” your body down by means of the arms going up–elbows back–and flipping the bar over as your body goes under the bar.
In my case, I’m not pulling my body under the bar, I’m “pulling” it up, mostly with the hip and leg movement, This may not be the best wording but if you’ve done Olympic lifting I think you get what I mean. You said you did Olympic lifting? did you ever do snatch grip high pulls from blocks as part of that training? When I was doing snatch grip high pulls from blocks using Christian Thibadeau’s template, it thoroughly woked both my traps and medial and rear delts. [/quote]
So is that essentially the top part of a snatch, like starting from the knees?
For the sake of common terms: http://tnation.T-Nation.com/strength-training-search/video
Skyzyk8, more or less, minus the dropping under and catching the barbell overhead in a lot of instances [depends upon why you are doing the movement. If for strength and muscle development you don’t do a full snatch from blocks., unless you are focusing on improving what I, and a lot others call the “second pull” from above knees into hip crease and the explosive launch of he barbell up the body via explosive hip and leg movement to the point the lifter will drop his body to catch the barbell before standing up with it. As the first video shows Thib is pulling the bar almost up to his chin. He is demonstrating the movement whose purpose is strength and muscle development. As a exercise to develop the second pull for olympic lifting the bar wouldn’t be pulled that high–probably no higher than the bar heighth on a full snatch]
[quote]germanicus wrote:
Skyzyk8, more or less, minus the dropping under and catching the barbell overhead in a lot of instances [depends upon why you are doing the movement. If for strength and muscle development you don’t do a full snatch from blocks., unless you are focusing on improving what I, and a lot others call the “second pull” from above knees into hip crease and the explosive launch of he barbell up the body via explosive hip and leg movement to the point the lifter will drop his body to catch the barbell before standing up with it. As the first video shows Thib is pulling the bar almost up to his chin. He is demonstrating the movement whose purpose is strength and muscle development. As a exercise to develop the second pull for olympic lifting the bar wouldn’t be pulled that high–probably no higher than the bar heighth on a full snatch][/quote]
The vid is worth a thousand words so yeah, I can see how that would hit the delts. I do power cleans from a hang for essentially the same thing. I’ve never seen the snatch divided up like that. The only way I was taught to do it was as a whole movement, where by the time the bar gets to about shoulder height it is pretty much floating, then the lifter drops into the bottom of an overhead squat, locking it up in position to finish the lift.
Thibs has an amazing way of looking at things and developing solutions.
[quote]germanicus wrote:
dt79, keep in mind that I was also doing standing barbell overhead pressing while working the snatch grip high pulls, so maybe it was the combo that helped the medial delts. Anyway, the “pulling your self under the bar” is a term used by Tommy Kono one of our best Olympic lifters ever.[/quote]
I’m back with an update but first I reread this and I realised I should have responded better in regard to “pulling your self under the bar”. I definitely agree with that part for the snatch and I see it as a great mental cue.
Anyway, I did SGHPs from pins today the way you described but with light weights and high reps and squeezed the side delts at the top. Was quite surprised at how good my shoulder felt. Will be increasing weight and playing around with rep ranges in the coming weeks. Thanks again.
[quote]dt79 wrote:
[quote]germanicus wrote:
dt79, keep in mind that I was also doing standing barbell overhead pressing while working the snatch grip high pulls, so maybe it was the combo that helped the medial delts. Anyway, the “pulling your self under the bar” is a term used by Tommy Kono one of our best Olympic lifters ever.[/quote]
I’m back with an update but first I reread this and I realised I should have responded better in regard to “pulling your self under the bar”. I definitely agree with that part for the snatch and I see it as a great mental cue.
Anyway, I did SGHPs from pins today the way you described but with light weights and high reps and squeezed the side delts at the top. Was quite surprised at how good my shoulder felt. Will be increasing weight and playing around with rep ranges in the coming weeks. Thanks again.[/quote]
I had zero experience with olympic lifts before so my attempts at doing SGHP were more like power upright rows. Then I read CT mentioning the cue “rolling/throwing your chest to the ceiling” will add 40 lb to your lift. I thought he was exaggerating until I tried it the next session and added 20kg instantly, haha. Finally felt it on my upper back and delts the next day too.