There is no spoon.
i’ve been meditating for the past 10 plus years. taming the monkey mind is how i learned it. i learned to just ‘watch’ the thoughts rise, acknowledge them, then let them go. the more i tried to stop the thought process, the more thoughts came up.
i learned to see my random thoughts as monkeys at play and learned to just ‘watch’ them - and not taking one thought and making it into another, and into another more…
i agree with what vegita wrote. when i lift weights - there is nothing else. pure focus on what i’m doing, what muscle is being used - totally in that moment. lift on inhale, lower on exhale. any other thoughts rising just simply vanish. lifting with awareness has actually helped me to quiet the monkey mind during meditation more easily. i find weight-lifting and meditating go together very well.
[quote]Vegita wrote:
makkun wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wth is meditating really?
i mean do you just sit there and think about stuff or what?
im actually serious
Depends on the underlying school of … hm … thought - but if you’re following any of the zen oriented schools, you’ll try not to think. And that can be harder than you’d think. 
Makkun
Actually, I believe meditation is simply a tool. It’s not spiritual unless it’s used to achieve a spiritual goal. It can be used for enlightenment, relaxation, medical, sports, lovemaking, really anything you can think about and do, meditation is one tool that can help you achieve greater success. The basic premis behind it is having the ability to focus on one thing, a focused individual is more effective than a not focused individual, and focus can be trained. What Mak is talking about here is called the quit mind, and it is really a technique that in the beginning stages of your development, can be used to help you meditate. Similar to how someone looking for a big bench works on other things than benching, like triceps work, and deltoids work, and lockout work. So you see, your ability to push thoughts out of your mind in the beginning is helpful to staying focused on one specific thing.
Of course there is some advanced meditations where you have a clear mind for long periods of time, but in reality, you are only clearing your mind so that the next thought can be viewed and considered, eventually, you can get to some things that you need to meditate on, and you will know what those are when they come up, and you may even meditate on yourself, which is cool, creepy, and enlightening all at once.
For clarity sake, I would not consider being in the zone, as meditation. Meditation to me is practicing being in the zone, while being in the zone is the real deal. So while pumping out a PR and being extremely focused and connected to the bar feels awsome, your goal is moving the weight. Training your mind to be able to move the weight, would be meditation. Like say for instance you are on your lunch break, you know when you get home you are going to go for your PR in the deadlift. So on your lunch break, you start daydreaming about your hands gripping the bar, you tug the bar a little and compress your feet into the floor. You take several deep breaths, you look up, sit back a little and pull some more so there is good tension in all of your body. You breath a few more focused breaths and then every muscle in your body fires in exactly the way they are supposed to, 70% from your lower back to keep your plane stable, 95% from your quads and halmstrings, driving the bar through the first foot of it’s path, hands gripping the bar with just enough force to keep it from slipping, then towards the top, you back really fires hard as you approach lockout.
This type of visualization before doing the task, I would consider a meditation, Toger woods does this before basically every golf shot, actually most good golfers do, and probably most pro anythings do this.
so there is some more about meditation according to V
V[/quote]
I just wanted to bump this post and say thanks to Vegita. I already knew everything you said, but reading this post just gave me a much needed wake-up call. I’ve been spurned into, err, non-action, and I very much appreciate it.
And count me in the group that would like to read that email, Polo, if you’re still reading this thread. I don’t mind if it’s posted here or pmed, but I am quite interested.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Vegita wrote:
makkun wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
wth is meditating really?
i mean do you just sit there and think about stuff or what?
im actually serious
Depends on the underlying school of … hm … thought - but if you’re following any of the zen oriented schools, you’ll try not to think. And that can be harder than you’d think.
Makkun
Actually, I believe meditation is simply a tool. It’s not spiritual unless it’s used to achieve a spiritual goal. It can be used for enlightenment, relaxation, medical, sports, lovemaking, really anything you can think about and do, meditation is one tool that can help you achieve greater success. The basic premis behind it is having the ability to focus on one thing, a focused individual is more effective than a not focused individual, and focus can be trained. What Mak is talking about here is called the quit mind, and it is really a technique that in the beginning stages of your development, can be used to help you meditate. Similar to how someone looking for a big bench works on other things than benching, like triceps work, and deltoids work, and lockout work. So you see, your ability to push thoughts out of your mind in the beginning is helpful to staying focused on one specific thing.
Of course there is some advanced meditations where you have a clear mind for long periods of time, but in reality, you are only clearing your mind so that the next thought can be viewed and considered, eventually, you can get to some things that you need to meditate on, and you will know what those are when they come up, and you may even meditate on yourself, which is cool, creepy, and enlightening all at once.
For clarity sake, I would not consider being in the zone, as meditation. Meditation to me is practicing being in the zone, while being in the zone is the real deal. So while pumping out a PR and being extremely focused and connected to the bar feels awsome, your goal is moving the weight. Training your mind to be able to move the weight, would be meditation. Like say for instance you are on your lunch break, you know when you get home you are going to go for your PR in the deadlift. So on your lunch break, you start daydreaming about your hands gripping the bar, you tug the bar a little and compress your feet into the floor. You take several deep breaths, you look up, sit back a little and pull some more so there is good tension in all of your body. You breath a few more focused breaths and then every muscle in your body fires in exactly the way they are supposed to, 70% from your lower back to keep your plane stable, 95% from your quads and halmstrings, driving the bar through the first foot of it’s path, hands gripping the bar with just enough force to keep it from slipping, then towards the top, you back really fires hard as you approach lockout.
This type of visualization before doing the task, I would consider a meditation, Toger woods does this before basically every golf shot, actually most good golfers do, and probably most pro anythings do this.
so there is some more about meditation according to V
V
I just wanted to bump this post and say thanks to Vegita. I already knew everything you said, but reading this post just gave me a much needed wake-up call. I’ve been spurned into, err, non-action, and I very much appreciate it.
And count me in the group that would like to read that email, Polo, if you’re still reading this thread. I don’t mind if it’s posted here or pmed, but I am quite interested. [/quote]
He has my permission to post if if thats what he is worried about. It’s not much, just some techniques.
V
Here I guess since I wrote it I can post it right? Here is the why.
Cool glad you are interested in gaining control. Thats basically how I look at it. I mean when you see someone do something which is going to have a negative outcome for them, like say getting in a fight, or getting angry over something small, or letting an irrational fear impact them in a way that doesn’t let them function normally or how they would like to function, it’s a simple matter of them not knowing how to control the different tools we are given or born with.
I mean you may not have an interest in the metaphysical, but most people on the planet believe in a non-physical aspect of the human self. The only way you can say you don’t believe it is possible is if you were to hold the notion that humans are simply very complex biological and chemical computers of sorts. That based on external stimulus, chemicals and electrical signals are going to make responses, and that basically there is no free will, we just respond to everything automatically but it is so complex there is the perception of choice.
Choice is what it all boils down to. And medetating deep within yourself, you can communicate with your self and even the non-physical part of yourself. This is very important because if as most people believe, the soul or spirit is the true you, then making choices that are in line with it’s ideas are going to be important for happiness. I like the term higher self to refer to the spirit, so i’ll use that from now on with you. People who are not in tune with thier higher self are easy to spot.
Normal events, even events that are pleasurable will give this type fits. Have you ever seen someone get paid a compliment and take it the wrong way and get offended and make a big stink. This person is not resonating with thier higher self, and thus the internal conflict spills over to the outside world. People who have anger outbursts are also in this category, as are people who have anxiety.
The people who are fully in tune with thier higher self, those are the people who can get in a car accident, get out and be happy that no one was hurt, not yelling at the guy who just rearended him. Or the person who loses a close family member and says, well hopefully they are in a better place now and i’ll hold the good times in my memory in thier honer.
Not sobbing and feeling sorry for themselves wishing the person were still alive. It’s the person who can let the bad things roll off thier back, not sweat the small stuff and have a blast during the fun times as well.
Meditation brings this to you. It is simply a tool, used for ages by different peopl to find out just who you are at the core. From here, it is not difficult to make decisions that are in line with our higher self and our true calling. Our friend who is having anxiety going to the gym for instance. Perhaps he is driving himself to go to the gym because of some childhood fantasy of supeheroes and muscular role models.
Perhaps his higher self could care less about that stuff and instead had a plan of other sorts. Perhaps this gym persuit is taking away from something else he is supposed to be doing. Thats just one way to look at it. Another way is that he has a negative self image and going to the gym calls on his insecurities, through a culmination of events, he is letting his fear run out of control and the result is an anxiety attack.
V
Here is the how to, so to speak, well at least it’s a good starting template.
"Great, I’m glad you are interested in it. It really is a great tool to help you understand and become completely comfortable whith who you are and where you are in this thing we call life. First off you have to go about it with some intensity and determination. It’s not a magic pill, there will be work and internal struggle. You may have more questions in the beginning than you did to start with, but with patience and practice and of course time, you will answer these questions yourself. Anxiety and stress is for the most part a fear of uncertainty, a feeling of lack of control if you will. Meditaion does two things, it enhances your self control, and teaches you to accept that that is all you can control. So when things out of your control occur, there is acceptance and response, instead of irrational fear and freezing. This is what anxiety is, it can manifest in slightly different physical symptoms in different people, but at it’s root, it’s all the same.
In order to meditate on yourself, first you need to learn how to meditate period. Your first excercise will be focal meditation. This is a simple one to do and not that difficult to master. You must do and become at least very proficient at this before you can use self meditation to any degree of success. Take an object, a favorite trinket, or a lit candle in a dark room work really well. Sit in a comfortable postition and focus your sight and thought in the object or the candle flame. Lets say you choose the candle flame to start off with (I would), you will see the flame and you will notice things about it, the rate of flicker or lack thereof, slightly changing size of the flame, color of the flame etc… once your mind is satisfied that it has viewed the flame and found out what it can, you mind will begin to wander. You will start thinking about other things. Your goal is to NOT think about other things, and instead re-train your vision and thought only on the candle flame. Your first few times you mind will wander in a few minutes or less. You need to try to get a period of say five minutes where no thoughts distract you on your goal. You don’t need a stopwatch or anything, just note the time before you start, and then note the time after you finish. If it’s 4 minutes or 6 minutes it doesn’t matter. I would try to do this every day, or as often as you can, if you can do it twice a day do so. Every time you do it, stive for more time focusing only on the flame. After a week of this you should be able to quiet your mind pretty well, and can probably go for 10-20 minutes without being interrupted by your thoughts again. Your proficient level is for a good solid 30 minutes, a mastery level is an hour or more. If you can do an hour, generally speaking, you have shut your thoughts off and could stay in that state for as long as you want. At this point an audible alarm might be needed to let you know when to stop.
Once you have learned to sufficiently quiet the noise of your random thoughts, it’s time to self meditate with your consious thought, on yourself. Pick something specific to start with, an aspect of yourself that you want to get to know better and do the same thing you did with the candle. A good one to start with here, is your good side, your love side if you will, think only of your positive feelings, things you thought of recently that were noble or kind. and just think about them, focus yourself on those thougts and instances and let your mind run with those thoughts, BUT if you stray to other thoughts, thoughts like dinner, sex, work, friends, sports, anything other than those positive thoughts, correct yourslef and go back to them.
You can do this with anything once you are comfortable doing it. Meditate on your job, your relationship with your friends or family, your gym experience, anything. Just keep it specific and come at it with a positive attitude. An attitude of wanting to know more. Everyones meditative experinces are different, so what you will find out and how quickly it will make an impact in your day to day life are uncertain. But you will feel more centered, more balanced, more at peace with yourself. You will most likley find yourself really enjoying life, regardless of the specific circumstances of it. I know I do. I have been dealt many bad cards over the years and it just doesn’t bother me. I accept them as things I cannot control, and do what I can to control what I can. There is a lasting peace that comes from this and peace brings happiness.
V
I know this can be a personal struggle for many people. If you have questions you are uncomfortable asking please PM me, though I would prefer you air them here so that others may have the opportunity to learn from the group. I believe the members here will be cool with any sensetive situations you may air. Don’t be shy, we all have problems and faults.
V
Thanks for posting that Veg … don’t know why I didn’t think of it …
Good post Veg… I do something similar by focusing on something, but it is not something tangible… it is almost like mantric meditation. I take the prayer of St. Francis of Assisi and repeat it over and over in my head at a steady rhythm. Realizing what I am saying but not focusing on what is being said.
This gives my mind an anchor to eventually trail off into nothing and then I am sitting in complete silence, internally and externally… I have posted the prayer below… I think it has a great message of how we should view ourselves…
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace,
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury, pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
where there is sadness, joy;
O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying to self that we are born to eternal life.
Now please keep in mind that I am not a super religious person, I view religion as a man made mechanism of control… I am a spiritual person and I feel that there is a divine spark in all of us, so the term Lord does not have to mean the Judeo-Christian lord if that is not your thing.
It merely represents that power that flows through all of our subconcious that connects every living thing, while the divine master is ourselves, because we ultimately have the control… if we look deep enough and trust ourselves.