Just as a point of fact guys, notice how KingBeef started this thread recommending one thing (body part once a week in the 4-6 rep range) but is now currently training a different way? Not only that, but he has a loose plan for what he can do when things get stale.
He adapted the program to fit his results, his needs, and his lifting style. This is what you MUST do if you ever hope to become the best you can.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Just as a point of fact guys, notice how KingBeef started this thread recommending one thing (body part once a week in the 4-6 rep range) but is now currently training a different way? Not only that, but he has a loose plan for what he can do when things get stale.
He adapted the program to fit his results, his needs, and his lifting style. This is what you MUST do if you ever hope to become the best you can.[/quote]
Good posts in here, man. I admire your patience in answering some of the questions that cause me to close the thread when I read them, lol.
This is a great thread, enjoyed reading through all of it. Here are two questions if you don’t mind : )
#1
What is your guyses input on training a muscle based on their “fast” or “slow” twitch dominance?
For example, triceps are apparently 70% + fast twitch; hamstrings are also very fast twitch - AKA they will get bigger mostly from low rep ranges[Makes sense eh?Powerlifters seem to have huge triceps and hamstrings]
On the other hand,some muscles like the traps/calves/side+rear delts are very slow twitch dominant - AKA they get bigger mostly from higher rep ranges. Oddly enough, most bodybuilders I see do…15…20…25…40…50 reps on these bodyparts and it seems to have always been like that. You never see people using low reps for shrugs or side/rear raises; its always very high reps and burning them out.
Thoughts/input?
#2 This has probably been beaten to the ground , and I’m sure you have been asked a million times; but if you don’t mind a brief,non time-consuming response about how important having a good strength base/strength training is?
I was thinking about getting a 315bench,405squat,495deadlift,and probably a 225 press with 185 bicep curl/185 tricep extension before I split off to pure bodybuilding hypertrophy training(aka more sets…more reps; instead of pretty low volume/low rep ranges,etc).
It seems all the guys who were the most successful did this…Ronnie…Arnold…Reg Park, but then there are exceptions who didn’t.
= )
Ethan:
#1 - That sounds like “majoring in the minors” to the highest degree to me. Having said that, again… YOU WILL HAVE TO EXPERIMENT. Try it for 12 weeks and see.
PS - I DO see people using low reps for Shrugs (google Jamie Lewis from Chaos and Pain… The man has traps and NEVER goes above 3 rep sets) … How did he know to do this? He has been training for 20 years and FIGURED OUT WHAT WORKS FOR HIM.
#2 - Well, I’m certainly not going to argue against getting as strong as possible, but SIMPLY lifting more weight means nothing. There are some powerlifters who can dead lift 3-4x their body weight but do NOT look like body builders. Hell, I’ve seen a few that barely look like they lift.
Your question seems to hint that you dont think “body building” training will get you stronger, which I disagree with. Progressive overload = getting stronger over time no matter what kind of training you do. 3 days a week full body, body part splits, upper/lower, oly lifting. They can ALL get you bigger and stronger, you should go with the one you find gets you closer to your goals the fastest.
There are certain programs that are geared MORE for strength, and MORE for size… but anyone busting their fucking ass in the gym is going to do both provided you are eating large amounts of food. The two are not as separate as people seem to think.
Very true Lonnie! I myself know a few powerlifters personally that deadlift 700+ pounds and yet have 14-15 inch arms, pretty pencil thin and don’t even look like they lift except their legs are big from squatting. However I can see essentially anybody benching 400+ pounds will probably have well developed delts/triceps, it just depends on the movement too I guess 
Oh wow ok I will try to figure out what rep ranges work best for me, I have just been sticking with the 3x5 and 5x5 since I’m on Reg Parks, but will experiment more once I finish building my strength base and continue strength specialization training! Thanks again : )
Thanks KB (and Lonnie) for opening my eyes. My
“Beginner 3 Big Lifts with Assistance Movements To Be Performed Maximally 3X a Week Not To Burn-Out Your CNS & Yourself Pussy Plan”
just got thrown out the window.
I don’t know if KB’s 5 day split is the right one for me, but the purpose of the thread hasn’t been lost on me. If you want to get to point A, is the map in your hands going to get you there? My present map is brainless, misleading and not nearly enough work to justify eating 3100 kcals or 1.5gms of protein a day. I’m going to try KB’s plan anyway as it’s obviously more in line with my goals.
Thanks again and keep up the good work, which has probably helped more people than you can imagine.
I have been using KB’s 6 day split the past 3 weeks, so far i think its great.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Mon - Legs
Seated Calf - 4x15-20
Leg press calf - 3x10-15 (knees slightly bent, 1-2 sec squeeze and stretch on each rep)
Lying Leg curls - 4x10-15
Bulgarian Squat - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 4x10-15
SLDL’s - 4x8-12
Tues - Chest/Delts/Tris
Flat dumbbell - 4x8-12
Incline barbell - 4x8-12
Seated OH barbell (ass slid forward) - 3x10-15
1 arm up right row - 3x10-15
Seated lateral raises - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Decline close grip bp - 4x8-12
Rope pushdowns - 3x10-15
Lying behind the head extensions - 3x10-15
Wed - Back/Bis
WNG chest supported row machine - 4x8-12
WNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Shrugs - 4x8-12
Rear delt row - 3x10-15
Standing reverse cable x’s - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Pinwheels (meadows style) - 4x10-15
Machine “V” preacher curls - 3x10-15
Incline curls - 3x10-15
Thurs - Legs
Standing calf - 4x10-15
Donkey calf - 3x10-15
HS single leg curls - 4x10-15
Single Leg Press - 4x10-15
Squats - 4x10-15
Hack Squats - 4x10-15
Fri - Chest/Delts/Tris
Low incline dumbbell - 4x8-12
Flat barbell - 4x8-12
SHIPs - 3x10-15
Machine laterals - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Dips (weighted) - 4x8-12
Straight bar pushdowns - 3x10-15
1 arm overhead exts - 3x10-15
Sat - Back/Bis
NG pull ups - 50
CNG pulldowns - 3x8-12
CNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Reverse pec deck - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Hammer curls (both arms together) - 4x10-15
1 arm machine preacher - 3x10-15
Spider curls - 3x10-15
I’ll probably start rotating rep ranges when progress stalls, but for now making great gains and enjoying training with higher reps than I’m used to. Also, I’d say if you’re newer to just keep it to 2 exercises per bodypart with 3 ramped sets.[/quote]
KB,
I have few questions on doing some of your exercises. Could you explain how to correctly do it:
â?¢ Standing reverse cable x’s
â?¢ SHIPs
â?¢ HS single leg curl
Thanks!
Just checking in again. Its been two months and I have been training with the 5 day split from day one the only difference is I train back on mondays and chest on tuesdays(I train with a friend and that fits his schedule for mondays and I dont mind it).
I would just like to point out to any other newbies lurking in this thread to take to heart very much what king and Lonnie say about finding what works for you and your mind muscle connection. For whatever reason I could not get the feel of flat BB bench and have been using DBs.
My progress was astounding once I was able to do this. It even translated to me being able to recently go back to flat bench and get a much better feel from the exercise. Anyway, if you still look around at this thread kingbeef and other main contributors, thanks alot for explaining bodybuilding training and this thread. It has helped me tremendously with my training philosophy and even though I started out in the higher rep range to get the feel down(12-15), the exercise selection made me think of training my body as a whole not just saying ok chest only needs one exercise move on mentality of “3 times a week same exercises everyday” mentality. I am definitely stronger and bigger than when I started(7 lbs up).
Good job man, thats gotta be a great feeling (I know it well, its awesome)
Keep beasting and getting strong, eat to fuel performance and the size will come
[qoute/]
Lo Incline Dumbbell Press- 3x4-8
Decline Barbell Press- 2x6-10
Seated overhead Barbell press- 3x6-10
Cable Lateral raises- 3x6-10
Shrugs- 3x6-10
Lying Behind the head extensions- 3x6-10
1 arm overhead extensions- 2x6-10
Tuesday - Back/Bi’s/Calves
Weighted Pull ups- 3x4-6
Seated straight bar Rows- 3x8-10
Pinwheel Curls- 3x4-8
Incline curls- 3x4-8
Standing Calf Raises- 3x4-8 (2)
Leg Press Calf Raises- 2x12-15
Wednesday - Legs/Abs
Seated Leg Curls- 3x6-10
RDL’s- 3x6-10
Leg Press- 3x6-10
Front Squats- 3x4-8
Weighted crunches- 3x12-15
Weighted planks- 3x30secs (weight on lowerback/glutes)
Thursday - Chest/Shoulders/Tri’s
Flat Dumbbell Press- 3x4-8
Incline Barbell Press- 2x6-10
Seated Overhead dumbbell Press- 3x6-10
Dumbbell lateral raises- 3x6-10
Machine Dips- 3x6-10
French Press (can you tell I love these?)- 2x6-10
Friday - Back/Bi’s/Calves
Barbell Rows- 3x6-10
Straight bar Pulldowns (shoulder with grip)- 3x6-10
Alt Dumbbell Curls- 3x6-10
Reverse Preacher curls- 2x6-10
Seated Calf Raises-5x6-12 (3)
Saturday - Legs/Abs
Lying Leg curls- 3x4-8
Single Leg curls- 2x6-10
Squats- 3x6-10
Hack Squats (close stance)- 3x6-10
Cable Rope crunches- 3x12-15
Weighted leg raises- 2x12-15
[/quote]
First of all, thanks so much for posting this KingBeef. I need some direction and I have been looking for a good routine that is set up for lifting six days a week (this is exactly the split I have been using thus far).
My only issue with committing to this program is that I’m scared to stop spending two to three hours a day in the gym. I’m worried I won’t improve as much if I stop doing that kind of volume. Would it be acceptable for me to compromise by adding a few exercises to the above?
Thanks.
NO ONE needs to spend 3 hours a day in the gym. What the hell are you doing for 3 hours? Try dropping your rest periods a little bit. My LONGEST days are 90 minutes and those are few and far between.
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
NO ONE needs to spend 3 hours a day in the gym. What the hell are you doing for 3 hours? Try dropping your rest periods a little bit. My LONGEST days are 90 minutes and those are few and far between.[/quote]
Gotcha. I rest 1-3 minutes depending on the exercises. Heavier compound sets are on the higher end, but as the workout progresses and I move to more isolation/higher rep work, I rest for 60 seconds between sets.
Hey guys,
I’ve been trying to design my own program and came up with this based on what I’ve read on this site. Let me know what you think:
Stats:
5’9 170lbs ~14% bodyfat
~1RM
BB Bench (Closer grip): 235
Incline BB Bench (Closer grip): 205
Deadlift: 405
Back Squat - 345
Front Squat - 280
Day 1
Horizontal Push/Pull:
A1. Incline DB Bench - 4x8
A2. Deadstop DB Rows - 4x8
B1. Incline Barbell Bench - 12, 10, 8, 6
B2. 1-Arm Cable Rows - 4x8
C1. Cable Flyes 2x12
C2. Face Pulls 2x12
D1. Pinwheel Curls w/ Grip4orce 3x8
D2. Rope Extensions 3x12
E1. Barbell Curls w/ Grip4orce 3x10
E2. Close Grip Bench: 3x10
Day 2
Deadlift Day
A1. Deadlift Variation - 3x5
B1. GHRs 3x10
B2. DB RDLs 3x10
C1. Leg Curls 3x12
C2. Hamstring Pullthroughs 3x12
D1. Standing Calf Raises
Day 3
Vertical Push/Pull
A1. DB Arnold Press 4x8
A2. Chinups 4x8
B1. Heavy DB Partial Lateral Raises 3x35
B2. Wide Grip Pulldowns 3x12
C1. Machine Lateral Raises 3x25
C2. Rear Delt Flyes 3x35
D1. Hammer Curls w/ Grip4orce 3x10
D2. V-Bar Pushdowns 3x12
E1. Incline DB Curls - 3x8
E2. Incline EZ Curl Extensions - 3x15
Day 4
Squat Day
A1. Back Squat 4x8
B1. Bulgarian Squats 3x8
C1. Walking Lunges 3x12 ea
D1. Leg Press - 3x25
E1. Seated Calf Raises
How is it laid out during the week? How often do you “restart” this 4 day phase.
It looks fine if its laid out right, of course you’ll have to TRY IT AND SEE for a few months. Thats the ONLY way to know if it works.
Due to my work/life schedule, I can lay it out as Monday, Tuesday, Thursday and Friday and I take the weekends off. I just did the first day and it felt pretty good.
Have at it, report back to us in a few months with PICTURES if you can
Keep your diet big, but clean, and gain some quality mass. I’m challenging you to focus on this aspect. Gain weight, but not so quickly that its mostly fat. Focus on this part for the next 12 weeks and it will pay dividends your entire life.
Thanks Lonnie, I appreciate the words of encouragement. I’ll be working my ass off on this program.
[quote]kingbeef323 wrote:
Mon - Legs
Seated Calf - 4x15-20
Leg press calf - 3x10-15 (knees slightly bent, 1-2 sec squeeze and stretch on each rep)
Lying Leg curls - 4x10-15
Bulgarian Squat - 4x8-12
Leg Press - 4x10-15
SLDL’s - 4x8-12
Tues - Chest/Delts/Tris
Flat dumbbell - 4x8-12
Incline barbell - 4x8-12
Seated OH barbell (ass slid forward) - 3x10-15
1 arm up right row - 3x10-15
Seated lateral raises - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Decline close grip bp - 4x8-12
Rope pushdowns - 3x10-15
Lying behind the head extensions - 3x10-15
Wed - Back/Bis
WNG chest supported row machine - 4x8-12
WNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Shrugs - 4x8-12
Rear delt row - 3x10-15
Standing reverse cable x’s - 2x20-30 (both to failure)
Pinwheels (meadows style) - 4x10-15
Machine “V” preacher curls - 3x10-15
Incline curls - 3x10-15
Thurs - Legs
Standing calf - 4x10-15
Donkey calf - 3x10-15
HS single leg curls - 4x10-15
Single Leg Press - 4x10-15
Squats - 4x10-15
Hack Squats - 4x10-15
Fri - Chest/Delts/Tris
Low incline dumbbell - 4x8-12
Flat barbell - 4x8-12
SHIPs - 3x10-15
Machine laterals - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Dips (weighted) - 4x8-12
Straight bar pushdowns - 3x10-15
1 arm overhead exts - 3x10-15
Sat - Back/Bis
NG pull ups - 50
CNG pulldowns - 3x8-12
CNG seated rows - 3x8-12
Reverse pec deck - 4x10-15 + 2 dropsets
Hammer curls (both arms together) - 4x10-15
1 arm machine preacher - 3x10-15
Spider curls - 3x10-15
I’ll probably start rotating rep ranges when progress stalls, but for now making great gains and enjoying training with higher reps than I’m used to. Also, I’d say if you’re newer to just keep it to 2 exercises per bodypart with 3 ramped sets.[/quote]
Appreciate all your time you’ve spent laying it out flat for us. Mindless training, thats what I’m about :D. I’ve been using the first 5 day split you posted and its been working great. I’ve done a little research and I want to start doing more frequency so I will be starting this new plan that you posted up. My question is, instead of working to failure on these sets (or are you), about how much effort would you say you put throughout your sets? I would imagine you wouldn’t train to failure but leave some room for later in the week?
and what is WNG chest supported row machine and WNG seated rows?? Dont understand what WNG stands for.
WNG? (wide neutral grip)?
SHIPS?
NG (Neutral grip right?)
CNG (Close neutral grip?)
HS single leg curl ?
Also if I were set on including power cleans into my regimen, where would it be best fit?? I swear it works out my traps the most. Part of my legs.