I think oly weighlifters would get very good numbers in PL but it wouldn’t happend the other way.
Just as an example, Pat Mendes, one or two years ago was squating 360kg, benching 230kg and deadlifting 330kg (for 4 reps lol), that puts him in a 920kg total, wich is 2028 lbs, not that far from the world records, and with a virtually untrained bench lol.
[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]Wrah wrote:
Powerlifting and strongman are for those who are too weak for weightlifting.[/quote]
The demands of the sports are fundamentally different. Each also has its own allure. You can’t call one group of elites “stronger” or “weaker” than another as it is pure speculation and a comparison of apples and oranges, really. [/quote]
Weightlifting is the only globally respected strength sport and it shows in the level of performance. Strongmen are strong, but the sport itself is as much a show than a sport, and the athletes themselves realise this. Powerlifters are amateurs, and I say this without any intent to insult.
[quote]alternate wrote:
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Power lifting is a strength sport. Oly requires some strength, but is a power sport. Two different things two different training requirements. Try grinding out a clean the way you do a max deadlift and you will be pop your shoulders and limbs.
This is common sense, otherwise powerlifters would be the best Oly lifters in the world. Why would you even ask this question.
[/quote]
Yes, but surely powerlifters COULD be world-class oly lifters if they just spent a couple of weeks doing plyo work to peak?
They have that massive base quality of maximal strength that oly lifters don’t have, and all they need to do is convert some of it to speed.
So, powerlifters could become world class oly lifters with very little additional training, but oly lifters would need a lifetime of re-training to become world class powerlifters - and even then would probably fail - because you can’t convert speed to strength because strength is the a more fundamental quality than speed.
Is that correct?[/quote]
You need to practice for years and years to obtain a solid technique for the lifts. Only strength will get you nowhere in Oly lifting. Also, many good powerlifters are inflexible as hell and won’t be able to hold a broomstick in an overhead squat position let alone a barbell with weights on it.
[quote]Wrah wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]Wrah wrote:
Powerlifting and strongman are for those who are too weak for weightlifting.[/quote]
The demands of the sports are fundamentally different. Each also has its own allure. You can’t call one group of elites “stronger” or “weaker” than another as it is pure speculation and a comparison of apples and oranges, really. [/quote]
Weightlifting is the only globally respected strength sport and it shows in the level of performance. Strongmen are strong, but the sport itself is as much a show than a sport, and the athletes themselves realise this. Powerlifters are amateurs, and I say this without any intent to insult.[/quote]
I don’t know what you mean by “it shows in the level of performance.” Are you suggesting that if powerlifting were more “globally respected” then the records would all be higher? That somebody would have deadlifted 1500lbs by now instead of just over 1000?
The elite performers in PL and strongman are just as strong at their endeavor as the elite OL are at theirs. The boundaries have been pushed in all 3 sports over the last century. I just don’t know what you’re saying.
Hearkening back to your original post, I will repeat, neither is stronger than the other. They are all strong in their own ways, contingent upon what they train for/how they train. Many of the top athletes in each endeavor probably possess characteristics that have allowed them to excel in their sport. Sagir was one hell of weightlifter, but I doubt that even if he trained for it he would have ever gotten a respectable bench press for a 170lb PL. He was a technical master who was built for power and speed and that made him one strong ass weightlifter, but it doesn’t automatically make him stronger than a top tier PL of the same body weight. There’s simply no way to compare.
I dislike powerlifting squats/gear as much as the next guy, but I also hate the elitist attitude prevalent among a lot of weightlifters that seems to be an insecurity on their part stemming from the myth believed by a lot of people that OL is “all technique” and “no strength.”
/rant
[quote]ape288 wrote:
I don’t know what you mean by “it shows in the level of performance.” Are you suggesting that if powerlifting were more “globally respected” then the records would all be higher? That somebody would have deadlifted 1500lbs by now instead of just over 1000?
[/quote]
Nah but possibly a good few lifters would be over 1000, not just a 1 or 2 lifters all alone up there.
Weightlifting has number of participants, money, fame and propaganda value over the other strength sports. Just to give an extreme example, pull ups are contested regularly in many places around the world. But the level of competition is far away from what it could be. We don’t know the absolute human potential in pull ups because there’s no money, fame or propaganda value.
When did conjugate method become mainstream in powerlifting, some 10 years ago? It was probably used by Russian weightlifters in the 60’s or something. They researched the shit out of everything because it had value to them. And about drugs. Powerlifters, strongmen and weightlifters use them hell of a lot, but weightlifters have always known the best what to use, when and how much. It’s a science on its own.
The standard of weightlifting is going to be higher than powerlifting. I’m not saying that powerlifters don’t train as hard or any such thing. However it is not an Olympic sport, it doesn’t give the country the same glory as weightlifting. When China and Russia and other countries pick kids from a young age and train them their whole lives to be good at one thing which is represent their country in an internationally popular sport then and only then will we truly know whether the current powerlifting world records are close to the peak of human possiblity
Trololololololololololoz
Koing
[quote]Wrah wrote:
weightlifters have always known the best what to use, when and how much. It’s a science on its own.[/quote]
Chyeahh brah, Klokov and Akkaev had to time their shit perfectly this year to take that one/two finish. Oh wait…
[quote]Koing wrote:
Trololololololololololoz
Koing[/quote]
What’s so funny Koing
[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]Wrah wrote:
weightlifters have always known the best what to use, when and how much. It’s a science on its own.[/quote]
Chyeahh brah, Klokov and Akkaev had to time their shit perfectly this year to take that one/two finish. Oh wait…
[quote]Koing wrote:
Trololololololololololoz
Koing[/quote]
What’s so funny Koing[/quote]
The OP.
He is TROLLING YOU ALL.
PL doing a few weeks of plyometrics and getting anywhere near worlds best LOL, give me a f0cking break. No real OLifter will stack up against a PL at the top end either.
Koing
[quote]Wrah wrote:
It’s a strength sport. That is all I bother to say. If some of you are fascinated by speed and technique, try golf instead.[/quote]
Its a strength sport yes, but how many powerlifters and strongmen can flick 190KG+ above their head in a matter of seconds?
I read somewhere that powerlifters are jealous of a weightlifters power and I agree. Take your benchpress and then try and imagine doing a snatch or a jerk with it.
I am amazed by the C&J and the snatch, they’re 2 movements I am currently getting my head (and body) around in order to get a power that few in most gyms will bother to attain.
[quote]harrypotter wrote:
I read somewhere that powerlifters are jealous of a weightlifters power and I agree. Take your benchpress and then try and imagine doing a snatch or a jerk with it.
[/quote]
I’ve jerked almost 20 kilos more than my best bench press and I’m not even a real Oly lifter haha.
[quote]Koing wrote:
[quote]ape288 wrote:
[quote]Wrah wrote:
weightlifters have always known the best what to use, when and how much. It’s a science on its own.[/quote]
Chyeahh brah, Klokov and Akkaev had to time their shit perfectly this year to take that one/two finish. Oh wait…
[quote]Koing wrote:
Trololololololololololoz
Koing[/quote]
What’s so funny Koing[/quote]
The OP.
He is TROLLING YOU ALL.
PL doing a few weeks of plyometrics and getting anywhere near worlds best LOL, give me a f0cking break. No real OLifter will stack up against a PL at the top end either.
Koing[/quote]
I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and just assuming he was very misinformed lol.
TheJonty has said everything that needs to be said. So much speculation and bullshit from some of the other posters. And I’m not referring to the usual olympic lifting members.
just hit some cleans in a squat suit + briefs
get at me
I am a powerlifter and I am training weightlifting now. I just did a powerlifting meet on July 21st and I am going to do a weightlifting meet on October 13th. This is a first person comment. I am a lifting enthusiast. To those who say powerlifting is not technical, I say try making it to elite level, be consistent, and not perform the powerlifts with technical precision: It won’t work and you’ll get hurt.
I began training regularly with weightlifting as my main training about a month ago. Previously I incorporated weightlifting into my powerlifting but not as a main training. Weightlifting is challenging in an associated way to powerlifting. I’ve been doing push presses, as a powerlifter forever and there is some similarity to the jerk. I am getting better at my weightlifting form and it will take some time for me to be a proficient weightlifter however my base of powerlifting does have some carryover to weightlifting.
Weightlifting is more technical than the powerlifting but both disciplines require strength and speed. I believe the equation for power has something about speed plus strength equals power. Perhaps there is more speed in weightlifting but considering the load in powerlifts the speed is expressed in a different way. Weightlifting requires a ton of power as does powerlifting.
I believe this is like comparing apples and oranges where both are still fruit but different components and tastes are important factors, each deserving its own merits and levels of sport recognition.
Every person expresses their strength, power, speed, athleticism in their own way be it powerlifter or weightlifter or both.
This is total bullocks man , its stupid to say that powerlifters possess the genetics and natural ability to become olympic lifters! its madness to suggest that with a few days a week of training plyos and technique they could become elite at what is clearly an olympic sport which requires years of training. Powerlifting is a maximal strenth sport and clearly strenegth is a pre requisite for power BUT olympic lifers are much more naturally athletic than powerlifters- Dont get your knickers in a twist powerlifters because I will explain my point: You can improve strength in many subjects wBUT you can not make an indovidual who is not born explosive into an explosive elite athlete. Ok I understand and agree that powerlifters are naturally very gifted in the strtength department but you arent telling me that power lifters can for example do good on the vertical jump test or have extremely springy muscles which enable generation of massive speed and power is a short period???/ You could be a 300kg squatter BUT if you dont have the right neural pathways and/or body composition you not gona be able to jump more than 60cm on the vertical jump. On the other hand have you seen Rezaazadeh the former world champion jump ??? he is big fat belly and looks like his been downing too many kebabs but when he jumps he is explosive and springy, Thats a natutral gift that gets worked on for it to become exceptional and it is not something you necessarily have just because you have strength. A further example is elite sprinters like tim montgomery or carl lewis who were not overly bulky. Sure they had a decent strength/weight ratio as do all sprinters BUT you are not telling me that they possessed powerlifting level strength??? If you get them to jump you will see much more force despite the presence of powerlifter level strength and in the same way just because some one has strength does not mean they have power and/or explosive strength. This is a response to alternate`s point
"Yes, but surely powerlifters COULD be world-class oly lifters if they just spent a couple of weeks doing plyo work to peak?
They have that massive base quality of maximal strength that oly lifters don’t have, and all they need to do is convert some of it to speed.
So, powerlifters could become world class oly lifters with very little additional training, but oly lifters would need a lifetime of re-training to become world class powerlifters - and even then would probably fail - because you can’t convert speed to strength because strength is the a more fundamental quality than speed.
Is that correct?"
[quote]gifted gonads wrote:
olympic lifers are much more naturally athletic than powerlifters- Dont get your knickers in a twist powerlifters because I will explain my point: You can improve strength in many subjects wBUT you can not make an indovidual who is not born explosive into an explosive elite athlete. Ok I understand and agree that powerlifters are naturally very gifted in the strtength department but you arent telling me that power lifters can for example do good on the vertical jump test or have extremely springy muscles which enable generation of massive speed and power is a short period???/ You could be a 300kg squatter BUT if you dont have the right neural pathways and/or body composition you not gona be able to jump more than 60cm on the vertical jump. [/quote]
Fred Hatfield was known to have a 40 inch vertical jump when he was squatting 1000+ lbs. Andy Bolton claims he could run 100m in just over 11 sec. while weighing almost 110kg. These are top level powerlifters exhibiting great explosiveness. Sure, not all great powerlifters will be this explosive, but one could simply argue that that is because they haven’t trained in such a way to maximize their potential in that regard.
What I’m saying is, I would wager that there is a great deal of crossover between guys who are top level powerlifters and elite level weightlifters. It’s simply a function of how they train. You can’t unequivocally tell me that Hatfield or Bolton, if they had been trained as weightlifters since they were 7 years old, wouldn’t have had the GENETIC potential to become great. In that same regard, a guy like Klokov could have been a great powerlifter if he had chosen to train in that manner for many years. Guys like this all possess a great affinity for strength acquisition/power development. It’s just something that is in their genes and they have chosen to nurture it in different ways and have thus developed different physical attributes.
But to say that oly lifters as a whole are much more naturally athletic than powerlifters is simply untrue (to be clear, I’m referring to the best of the best in each endeavor). To excel to that level in the squat/deadlift takes a huge amount of natural explosive strength, to C&J 200kg takes a huge amount of natural explosive strength. The initial physical attributes that cause the athletes to excel in their respective sports are very similar, but they are then developed in different ways and are thus later expressed more readily in different ways.
Anyway, I’m rambling. Hope that makes sense.
Weightlifting is a sport that requires speed…if you train for a long time doing slow stuff (like powerlifting), then it’s harder. That’s because you aren’t getting the muscle activation that you get doing speed stuff, apart from other stuff…
In my opinion, gymnastics, 100m, or sports like soccer are more related to weightlifting than powerlifting. Powerlifting is important in weightlifting mainly (not exclusively) if you decide to drop under the bar (it isn’t compulsory, is it?), cause then you have to squat, and do something slow.
Besides, i can imagine weightlifters playing all sorts of sports, and performing well, can we say the same about powerlifters?
So, no way a weightlifter trains like a powerlifter and then does some plyo and becomes a good weightlifter…
[quote]ape288 wrote:
Fred Hatfield was known to have a 40 inch vertical jump when he was squatting 1000+ lbs. Andy Bolton claims he could run 100m in just over 11 sec. while weighing almost 110kg. These are top level powerlifters exhibiting great explosiveness. Sure, not all great powerlifters will be this explosive, but one could simply argue that that is because they haven’t trained in such a way to maximize their potential in that regard.[/quote]
I don’t have any issues believing a big vertical, but 100m in 11 sec is FAST. Especially for someone who’s not a sprinter. Maybe it was rather generously hand timed.
Who said anything about a little bit of plyo and then the powerlifter becomes an elite weightlifter? Weightlifting takes time and effort and dedication. Powerlifting is no different in that aspect. The difference is in execution and to say one in powerlifting cannot posses the same or develop the same neural muscular speed pathways or any other aspect of any other sport is to speak from ignorance in knowing the history of athletes in powerlifting.
If you want to be aloof and think that weightlifting is absolute and master of all sports…go on and think that and believe in purple spotted flying elephants too named god that will save you the next time a failed lock out overhead comes crashing on to your neck. In the mean time me a powerlifter now a weightlifter will lift and compete and do well and be saved by a green freckled hippo flying on a skateboard powered by a rocket named Zeus with an afro. Please…