Ditch the Burqua, Bitch

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
121

[quote]pat36 wrote:

No, it just wasn’t accurate…we don’t torture prisoners (thought the prisoners have been known to torture each other), while any punishment for the enforcement prohibition is in my mind wrong, most of them are misdemeanors and settled with a fine , if that, and the death penalty isn’t doled out liberally…It is only available for premeditated or capitol murder, and most of those end up with life w/o parole. So the irony is not accurate.[/quote]

You are correct.

I was just pissed about the torture part myself. Some people would like to believe the US tortures prisoners. Their knowlege of the US policy is lacking. Hopefully you cleared this up.

122

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
pat36 wrote:

No, it just wasn’t accurate…we don’t torture prisoners (thought the prisoners have been known to torture each other), while any punishment for the enforcement prohibition is in my mind wrong, most of them are misdemeanors and settled with a fine , if that, and the death penalty isn’t doled out liberally…It is only available for premeditated or capitol murder, and most of those end up with life w/o parole. So the irony is not accurate.

You are correct.

I was just pissed about the torture part myself. Some people would like to believe the US tortures prisoners. Their knowlege of the US policy is lacking. Hopefully you cleared this up.[/quote]

29% of Americans don’t consider waterboarding torture.

Somehow, I think it’s a 1:1 match with the ones still approving of Bush.

123

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

I’m curious: my daughter is Chinese (Chinese-American actually). What is it about the Chinese that you don’t like?

In my visit to China to get her and all the Chinese people I’ve met here seem like great people.

[/quote]

Oh, I’ve got nothing against the Chinese people, Headhunter, I just think there’s way too many of them. I also want to be nowhere near Japan when they edge America out as hegemon of the Pacific Rim. I have a feeling that nobody in Beijing has forgotten about Nanking.

Anyway, all I was saying was that my impression of Dubai, from what I’ve heard, is that it’s a lot like Singapore.

Singapore has Indians, Arabs, Malays, Caucasians and Filipinos, but what it has most of is Chinese. Something like 80%. And so I imagined Dubai to be a city that is neat, orderly, and modern, like Singapore, without the Chinese influence.

I guess I could have said “New York without the Jews and black people” but that would have really pissed people off. And it would have been less accurate.

Completely off the subject, but now I’m curious. When you say that your daughter is Chinese-American, do you mean that she is ethnically Chinese with American citizenship, or that she is of mixed parentage, with one parent being American and one being Chinese? I know that you adopted your daughter, so I assume it’s the former. Do you use a different term to mean the latter?

124

Pat and Genghis: I understand your objections to my ironic comment, but come on.

I’ve read the CIA’s and Special Operations Group’s manuals on “coercive questioning.” We torture prisoners. Get over it.

There are thousands of people serving life sentences in the United States for drug-related offenses. Get over it.

Of the 62 countries in the world that still practice capital punishment, the US is in the top 10 for number of executions carried out. That’s pretty liberal application.

Once again, get over it.

My point was that if the use of torture, the death penalty, and severe punishment for drug-related offenses are the criteria used to classify a society “draconian,” then the United States also qualifies. Having lived in both the US and Singapore, I can attest that neither society is perfect, and also that neither is draconian. Neither is Japan, for that matter.

Unlike many of the people who criticize it, I truly love America. However, unlike many people who truly love America, I also have no illusions about it.

125

[quote]Varqanir wrote:

Completely off the subject, but now I’m curious. When you say that your daughter is Chinese-American, do you mean that she is ethnically Chinese with American citizenship, or that she is of mixed parentage, with one parent being American and one being Chinese? I know that you adopted your daughter, so I assume it’s the former. Do you use a different term to mean the latter?
[/quote]

Her biological father worked at the Czech Embassy and her mother is Han Chinese, so she is a Chinese Checker. :smiley:

Seriously, she is ethnically Chinese with United States citizenship. She was abandoned in a cardboard box in a slum outside of Guanzhou. She is tough, smart, and has a wonderful sense of humor, like most Chinese. I love her dearly.

127

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Of the 62 countries in the world that still practice capital punishment, the US is in the top 10 for number of executions carried out. That’s pretty liberal application.

Is that per capita? Absolute number? [/quote]

Absolute number. China is, unsurprisingly, in the number one slot, although Singapore leads per capita, because of its small total population.

129

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
Chushin wrote:
Varqanir wrote:

Of the 62 countries in the world that still practice capital punishment, the US is in the top 10 for number of executions carried out. That’s pretty liberal application.

Is that per capita? Absolute number?

Absolute number. China is, unsurprisingly, in the number one slot, although Singapore leads per capita, because of its small total population.

Where does the US stand on a per head basis?
[/quote]

Sixth in the world, on a per capita basis. Tied with Vietnam for 4th place on an absolute basis. I meant to say “top 5” in my earlier post.

  1. USA: 300 million people, 60 executions per year = 20 per 100 million

  2. Vietnam: 80 million people, 60 executions per year = 75 per 100 million people

  3. Iran: 70 million people, 160 executions per year = 230 per 100 million people

  4. China: 1.3 billion people, 3,500 executions per year = 270 per 100 million

  5. Saudi Arabia: 25 million people, 80 executions per year = 320 per 100 million

  6. Singapore: 4 million people, 30 executions per year = 750 per 100 million people

130

The point was The US do not torture prisoners on a regular basis, like in many other countries. If I am arrested, I am not tortured by authorities and forced to confess to a bogus crime.

Before 9-11-2001, did anyone in the US ever consider whether waterboarding was torture or not?

Captured terrorists and people arrested for crimes fit into 2 categories in my book.

131

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
The point was The US do not torture prisoners on a regular basis, like in many other countries. If I am arrested, I am not tortured by authorities and forced to confess to a bogus crime.[/quote]

Probably not. Particularly not if you’re white. Understand, though, that there is a difference between not torturing prisoners “on a regular basis,” and not torturing prisoners at all.

Likely most American civilians were unaware of the practice, and so never considered it at all.

I see. So would you approve of torturing terror suspects until they confess to committing a terrorist act?

133

[quote]Chushin wrote:
On the one hand the US is indeed #6, but on the other, it’s not even in the same league as #s 1-4, whose rates are from 11.5 to 37.5 times higher.

[/quote]

True. And not being as bad as Iran, Saudi Arabia, and China is always something to be proud of.

135

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Ah, Mr. V. There is little that escapes your cynicism and sarcasm…[/quote]

Well, Mr. Chushin, you should know that I consider any unused opportunity for sarcasm to be a lamentable waste, but I’m actually not as much of a cynic as I appear to be.

Devil’s advocate happens to be one of my favorite games, and after all, ridentem dicere verum quid vetat? [quote]

Actually, I’m not necessarily ready to recognize the assumption that executions are “bad” as a given. It seems you are. But that’s another thread, I’m sure. [/quote]

To be honest, I’m not at all opposed to judicious use of capital punishment, as in fact I have stated on a number of threads.

Some people just need killin’, after all.

137

[quote]Chushin wrote:
Gomen. Kyouyou no nai mono de, ratengo wa hotondo wakaranai. Eiyaku onegai-dekimasu ka. [/quote]

Tomodachi no tame ni, nandemo.

“What prevents me from telling the truth with a smile?”

138

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Pat and Genghis: I understand your objections to my ironic comment, but come on.

I’ve read the CIA’s and Special Operations Group’s manuals on “coercive questioning.” We torture prisoners. Get over it.

There are thousands of people serving life sentences in the United States for drug-related offenses. Get over it.

Of the 62 countries in the world that still practice capital punishment, the US is in the top 10 for number of executions carried out. That’s pretty liberal application.

Once again, get over it.

My point was that if the use of torture, the death penalty, and severe punishment for drug-related offenses are the criteria used to classify a society “draconian,” then the United States also qualifies. Having lived in both the US and Singapore, I can attest that neither society is perfect, and also that neither is draconian. Neither is Japan, for that matter.

Unlike many of the people who criticize it, I truly love America. However, unlike many people who truly love America, I also have no illusions about it.[/quote]

Extracting information from enemy combatants isn’t torturing your average prisoner. I have no love for the average prisoner in America and quite frankly, if a rapist, murderer, child molester were to get tortured, I wouldn’t give a shit. But they don’t, hell many of them live better in prison. I am pretty sure you’d be hard pressed to find any country practicing espionage that doesn’t include some form of torture to extract information. I am not fore the torturing of human beings in general, but I am afraid it is a necessary tool in a dangerous world.
Yes, there are plenty of people serving huge sentences for drugs, most of which are not only repeat offenders, but likely guilty of other crimes used to get the drugs into distribution. While I am anti prohibition, the vast majority of those life sentence offenders are not people I’d want on the street. They were the business end of the drug game, not the users. There are of course tragic acceptions, but life sentences are generally not given out lightly. If anything our judicial system has been guilty of over leniency.
Yea, there are a lot of folk on death row, again a sentence not given lightly. We are a country of 300 million! The people on death row are usually murderers of the worst kind, as well as they have a billion chances at an appeal. What are the populations of the countries behind the U.S.? I think looking at it proportionally would have a different reveal in the numbers.
I am against the death penalty, but in terms of priority in my view, it’s pretty low. I certainly ain’t gonna keep the governor awake at night protesting the execution of a vile person. I rather they rot in a super max though. Once you kill a person, you can’t do anything else to them.

139

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
I see. So would you approve of torturing terror suspects until they confess to committing a terrorist act?[/quote]

I didn’t say I did or I didn’t. But you can thank our Muslim friends for having the practice instituted. In my opinion, no 9-11 attack, no torture.

140

[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
I see. So would you approve of torturing terror suspects until they confess to committing a terrorist act?

I didn’t say I did or I didn’t. But you can thank our Muslim friends for having the practice instituted. In my opinion, no 9-11 attack, no torture.[/quote]

That is not how we are using waterboarding. We are not trying to get a phony confession. We are trying to find out details of the terrorist network so we can destroy it.