I posted this in the Thib Zone, and, well, Thibs didn’t seem to want to answer it. So I thought the general public is just as informative.
Do diets need to be changed similar (but not as often) to how we change our training routines? Is it possible to get “stuck” in a diet rut?
I’m curious as to how adaptive our bodies truly are. In theory, the more advanced we become in weight training the more frequently we change our routine. Any insight is appreciated.
Yes, in a way. You can’t restrict calories for too long or your metabolism will slow and adapt. Every 7-10 days a refeed is needed to keep you metabolism up and willing to burn fat.
Research some articles here. You should find what you need.
cueball
I agree, however I’m not restricting my calories: 2000 - 2400 daily. I think the real problem is that I’m still too heavy (240 lbs) to notice muscle gain and fat loss.
I would say yes. It has been mentioned in several articles that overeating sertain types of food can cause a cumulitive mild allergy effect requiring a break from that food occasionally. Also diet has a lot to do with how quickly you meet your lifting/physique goals. However if you have an already varied diet it’s probably not a big deal. BTW where are you in MI?
PeterD
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
I agree, however I’m not restricting my calories: 2000 - 2400 daily. I think the real problem is that I’m still too heavy (240 lbs) to notice muscle gain and fat loss.[/quote]
At 240, you ARE restricting calories. You need to find your maintenence amount of calories. There is a formula to use. The search function should find it. You should, for maintenece, be eating about 3500. I would olnly suggest restricting your calories buy 500 to 1000 depending on how you respond.
However, you have to be pushing it in the gym to get the best beniefit. My guess is that your metabolism has already adapted to you restriction and slowed. Do the math in the formula, then drop 500 from that for a couple weeks. If you haven’t lost any drop a few hundred more for another 2 weeks.
cueball
A 185 lbs guy with 10% bodyfat needs about 4200kcal to maintain on training days. I know this because I ran the number through JB’s massive eating calculations. That being said…you are WAY restricting calories for your size. Add some good calories in over the next couple weeks and you weight loss will probably pick up.
[quote]cueball wrote:
TheDudeAbides wrote:
I agree, however I’m not restricting my calories: 2000 - 2400 daily. I think the real problem is that I’m still too heavy (240 lbs) to notice muscle gain and fat loss.
At 240, you ARE restricting calories. You need to find your maintenence amount of calories. There is a formula to use. The search function should find it. You should, for maintenece, be eating about 3500. I would olnly suggest restricting your calories buy 500 to 1000 depending on how you respond.[/quote]
I remember doing either Shugart’s or CT’s calculator not that long ago (maybe for the V-Diet) and I got 1700 for off days and 1900 for workout days. I really need to find that again. Maybe I misread. The problem I have understanding is if it’s based off of lean muscle or total weight. Obviously there’s a difference.
[quote]
However, you have to be pushing it in the gym to get the best beniefit. My guess is that your metabolism has already adapted to you restriction and slowed. Do the math in the formula, then drop 500 from that for a couple weeks. If you haven’t lost any drop a few hundred more for another 2 weeks.
cueball[/quote]
Agree. I have been using Rippetoe’s Starting Strength for the last couple of weeks. So I think that I would be earning the cals. I thought one of the Physique Client’s was consuming sub 2000 daily, and he was of the large variety.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
A 185 lbs guy with 10% bodyfat needs about 4200kcal to maintain on training days. I know this because I ran the number through JB’s massive eating calculations. That being said…you are WAY restricting calories for your size. Add some good calories in over the next couple weeks and you weight loss will probably pick up.[/quote]
Thanks. I’m not going to dispute Berardi’s knowledge. But when you mention massive eating, that’s the last thing I need is to gain weight. I’ll read over that again in case I missed the point. Thanks for the reminder. How’s Chub to Stub working? Because that’s essentially what I’m aiming to accomplish.
Chub to stub is working well thanks for asking. I did JB’s get shredded for four weeks and now I’m on the v-diet I have 14 days left tonight is my solid food meal. The cals I gave you were just a reference for figures obviously you’d want to subtract because that was for maintainence. Havin lost alot of weight myself I’d say keep it low carb, doing what you are doing but I would do a CLEAN refeed maybe once a weekend and then some interval cardio the following day.
What really helped me lose alot of weight was 20 minutes of interval cardio about 4 times a week and maybe 10 minutes steady state cardio on my lifting days. I dunno where you are athleticism wise but around 230lbs I was doing intervals, they were tough but they helped. Keep your diet in order and you probably could add some cardio. It really does help.
Occasionally it will stall out, when whatever your doing stop working…switch it up, maybe add a few more clean calories in the form of protein and good fats. It worked for me, I know its not the same for everyone I’m just giving you my personal experience.
GOOD LUCK! keep following your nutrition principles and maybe consider a clean refeed once a week with some HIIT the next day.
Also, just so you know you mentioned you might be too big to notice. When I went from 263 to 240 I didnt feel like there was much of a visual difference. When I got to 225-230 I started to see a huge visual difference. When I got to 210 I was blown away by the difference.
SO to answer your question, yes its possible and likely you dont notice because you are used to seein yourself being big…your mind still sees what its used to seeing. Keep working away and people will tell you and you will start to notice.
TAKE PICTURES ONCE A month(or more frequently if you desire) Trust me pictures will help you notice better than anything, the mirror lies to you. Also, notice the change your how your clothes fit. You got it man, keep working away. You’ll start to notice.
Ok, here is where I got me current caloric intake numbers:
The V-Diet
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=546491
(10.2 x bodyweight + 879) x .50 = _____
(10.2 x 240 + 879)x .5 = 1663
(10.2 x bodyweight + 879) x .60 = _____
(10.2 x 240 + 879) x .60 = 1996
[quote]
What our sample guy has now is the absolute minimal and maximal amount of calories he’s going to consume while on the Velocity Diet.
My plan is to get close to the first number on non-training days and close to the second number on training days, but as long as I don’t fall above or below this range I think I’ll do fine. [/quote]
The v-diet is just excessively low calorie for normal weight loss goals. I’ve never been as low as I am now on the v-diet and I lost about 60lbs prior to starting it. I’d never been below 2000 before
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
The V-Diet is just excessively low calorie for normal weight loss goals. I’ve never been as low as I am now on the V-Diet and I lost about 60lbs prior to starting it. I’d never been below 2000 before[/quote]
What calorie range did you use to get from 260 to 220? I’m having a hard time zeroing in on my ideal range to lose weight, gain muscle (if possible). I would think 2000-2400, which is what I consume now, is low enough to lose weight. I take in no more than 100g carbs daily.
As far as V-Diet, it makes sense to not go by those guidelines for normal weight loss.
[quote]GetSwole wrote:
Havin lost alot of weight myself I’d say keep it low carb, doing what you are doing but I would do a CLEAN refeed maybe once a weekend and then some interval cardio the following day.
What really helped me lose alot of weight was 20 minutes of interval cardio about 4 times a week and maybe 10 minutes steady state cardio on my lifting days. I dunno where you are athleticism wise but around 230lbs I was doing intervals, they were tough but they helped. Keep your diet in order and you probably could add some cardio. It really does help.[/quote]
I will start cardio back up. I stopped it two weeks ago, just before I began Rippetoe’s Starting Strength. Recovery wise, I’m into the groove and can handle the workouts just fine. I never thought I would be doing squats 3x/week!
[quote]
Occasionally it will stall out, when whatever your doing stop working…switch it up, maybe add a few more clean calories in the form of protein and good fats. It worked for me, I know its not the same for everyone I’m just giving you my personal experience.[/quote]
Yeah, I know its not a template, but your input has put me on the right track again. Cardio is a must.
This is from the CT’s Carb Cycling Codex about Basic Metabolic Rate (BMR). This might help you out better with your calorie intake. The V-Diet cals are intentionally low for people trying to lose that last amount of fat.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=811783
BMR = 66 + (13.7 x weight in kg) + (5 x height in cm) - (6.8 x age)
So for you: Weight = 109kg, height = 178cm, and age = 25 (not sure how old you are, I’m just using 25).
BMR = 66 + (13.7 x 109kg) + (5 x 178cm) - (6.8 x 25)
BMR = 2279 calories per day
Since it looks like you are in that range, you should be ok. However, if fat loss is stalling, carb cycling might be good for you IF you are reasonably close to your goals. If you are still pretty far off, then fine tuning the diet, and maybe even dropping the carbs a bit might help, but just some suggestions.
[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
This is from the CT’s Carb Cycling Codex about Basic Metabolic Rate (BMR). This might help you out better with your calorie intake. The V-Diet cals are intentionally low for people trying to lose that last amount of fat.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=811783
BMR = 66 + (13.7 x weight in kg) + (5 x height in cm) - (6.8 x age)
So for you: Weight = 109kg, height = 178cm, and age = 25 (not sure how old you are, I’m just using 25).
BMR = 66 + (13.7 x 109kg) + (5 x 178cm) - (6.8 x 25)
BMR = 2279 calories per day
Since it looks like you are in that range, you should be ok. However, if fat loss is stalling, carb cycling might be good for you IF you are reasonably close to your goals. If you are still pretty far off, then fine tuning the diet, and maybe even dropping the carbs a bit might help, but just some suggestions.[/quote]
Actually this is the formula for BASAL metabolic rate. From the article:
“(BMR) simply means the amount of energy used by your body during a 24-hour period if no activity is performed. In other words, if you’re inactive for 24-hours straight, you’d still “burn” the amount of calories equivalent to your BMR.”
This does not mean the same thing as MAINTENENCE. It means if you sat and literally did nothing but sit for 24 hours you would burn this much. To find maintenence you must use the activity level chart and multiply your equation result by your activity level.
CT says most are at the “moderate level” which is BMR x 1.6. This would put thedudeabides at 3,646.4 for maintenence. A lot different than 2279. From 3646 then you drop 500 or so. Dropping below BASAL is a sure metabolism killer.
cueball
[quote]cueball wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Actually this is the formula for BASAL metabolic rate. From the article:
“(BMR) simply means the amount of energy used by your body during a 24-hour period if no activity is performed. In other words, if you’re inactive for 24-hours straight, you’d still “burn” the amount of calories equivalent to your BMR.”
This does not mean the same thing as MAINTENANCE. It means if you sat and literally did nothing but sit for 24 hours you would burn this much. To find maintenence you must use the activity level chart and multiply your equation result by your activity level.
CT says most are at the “moderate level” which is BMR x 1.6. This would put thedudeabides at 3,646.4 for maintenence. A lot different than 2279. From 3646 then you drop 500 or so. Dropping below BASAL is a sure metabolism killer.
cueball
[/quote]
Cueball,
Good heads up, thanks for clearing that up. Your points make more sense, now that I look at it. 2279 did seem pretty low. Thanks for setting me straight.
Thedudeabides - go with cueball’s info and disregard mine. Thanks.
Thanks to both of you for input. I’ll take the advice to eat over 3000/daily. In my mind, that just seems like a lot of food to eat, and lose weight. Thinking too much. It’s very likely that my metabolism is beat up resulting in slow/no weight loss.
[quote]TheDudeAbides wrote:
Thanks to both of you for input. I’ll take the advice to eat over 3000/daily. In my mind, that just seems like a lot of food to eat, and lose weight. Thinking too much. It’s very likely that my metabolism is beat up resulting in slow/no weight loss.[/quote]
Just remember, fat loss is a long term thing. At 3000 cals, you should expect around 1 lb a week. Here is an older article by Berardi that outlines a good fat loss exercise program utilizing resistance training plus anaerobic and aerobic sessions. Basically it’s incraesing your expenditure alowing for close to maintenence cals with good fat loss. It’s a part 2 article but the first is mostly a history lesson.
http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460250
Good luck!
cueball
However, I will mention that…having lost a lot of weight. Those guys say that considerably overweight people can start out losing much mroe than 1 a week, say 2.5-3lbs…ultimately your just gonna have too feel it out as you go and look for ways to tweak when you arent making improvements.
The 1lb a week rule is really for those who are relatively lean but need to get leaner without sacrificing muscle.