Did Noahs Arc Really Happen

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
JSMaxell:

I’m not saying that there were two of every animal in the entire world and every thing that was stated is exactly how it happened. They are stories and they are parables but they also all have been confirmed historically and there is a very real possiblity that Noah’s ark is on Mt. Ararat. You’re just skeptical of it because you don’t believe it and don’t want to believe it. I don’t blame you honestly, but the ark is a real possibility.

You’re telling me the dead sea scrolls is just bunk? Like I said, not everything in parables and Bible stories are mean’t to be taken 100% literally but the people and places and events in general have been proven historically. There was a Joshua, there was a Jacob, there was a Jesus, there were all of the disciples, there was a King Soloman, there was a King David, there was the whole story of Potiphers wife and Joseph.[/quote]

Your statement that, “…but they also all have been confirmed historically…” is WAY out of line. In fact, the major events in the bible, the ones that give it its supernatural authority, are entirely lacking in historical evidence. I don’t claim that the major locations don’t/didn’t exist…we can all go visit Jerusalem today if we want. I claim that anything of a supernatural nature that supposedly happened did not happen or that it has a logical, natural cause thereby taking it out of the realm of the supernatural.[/quote]

I understand your point and I wasn’t referencing the supernatural. No where did I mention the supernatural. However, in general the Bible is historical and there are events in the Bible that are said to be caused by supernatural forces and even science has to try to figure out how things took place. So even if we take the supernatural out of the equation, the people, places and particular events from the Bible did occur.
[/quote]

Lets say I write a story. It takes place in the Chilis restaurant on Hwy. 6 and 290 in Houston, Texas. This story says that a server at the restaurant, named Chuck, was visited by God during his shift and told that he is the savior of all mankind. That fact that there really is a Chilis at that location, and that there really is a server there named Chuck, does not automatically mean the other part about god is true. The reason I point out the supernatural is because that is what gives the bible and Christianity its special authority. If we take out all of the special/magical/miraculous things that happened (as you suggest in your final statement) it isn’t anything special. It is merely fictional storied created around historical people and places.

82

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
[[[Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I wouldn’t dream of contradicting any of Prof. X’s claims with regards to dental science or building a huge physique. Compared to him, on those topics, I am way less intelligent and way more foolish.]]]

But believing there is a God or isn’t is a matter of opinion. You don’t believe in God and I do so how does that make you more intelligent. There isn’t anything concrete that you can use to debunk God and there really isn’t anything I can say to guaranty his existence. I think looking in the mirror and walking on this beautiful earth confirms there is a God but neither of us are 110%. On the other hand we are completely 110% positive that Prof. X knows more about dentistry than you do. We can’t make that claim about God.
[/quote]

I disagree. I think logic, study, and rational thought can lead to only one conclusion. Your statement that I can’t disprove the existence of a god is correct. It isn’t possible to prove something doesn’t exist. Can you prove there is not an invisible unicorn somewhere in your living room right now? Of course not, there could be one, but I venture a guess that you think there isn’t one. The fact that we can’t prove something doesn’t exist doesn’t mean we should believe it does exist. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim of existence.[/quote]

And that’s where we disagree again. Logic, study and rational thought would lead me to believe that this earth, the planets, and everything else that exists didn’t just happen. It also wouldn’t lead me to believe that a fish grew legs and became a lizard and then the lizard evolved into an aquaman and the aqua man became a caveman. I know that last line sounds stupid, but it’s just as illogical to believe that random gasses and evolution created everything that currently exists than it is to believe a greater being created this all. That doesn’t make you more intelligent or less intelligent than me.
[/quote]

And this is where the fundamental disconnect is. Your statements about evolution and the formation of the cosmos reflect ignorance. When I say “ignorance” I’m not calling you a name. I mean it in the sense of “lack of knowledge.” I fully admit I am ignorant about many, many things. We have actual evidence. Real things that can be touched, seen, and examined that say things did occur that way. Not as linearly as you suggest, but still. It is not “just as illogical” to believe in random gasses and evolution because we have real evidence showing that it did happen that way.

83

If you believe Jesus Christ lived or is real, then you would do well to believe the flood as the event it says it was in the Bible. Jesus himself mentions Noah and the flood.

84

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
If you believe Jesus Christ lived or is real, then you would do well to believe the flood as the event it says it was in the Bible. Jesus himself mentions Noah and the flood. [/quote]

Or we can believe that Jesus (if he really existed) was like most all leaders, political or religious, and was willing to spin tales and build upon existing beliefs and stories in order to build a following and expand his power.

85

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
JSMaxell:

I’m not saying that there were two of every animal in the entire world and every thing that was stated is exactly how it happened. They are stories and they are parables but they also all have been confirmed historically and there is a very real possiblity that Noah’s ark is on Mt. Ararat. You’re just skeptical of it because you don’t believe it and don’t want to believe it. I don’t blame you honestly, but the ark is a real possibility.

You’re telling me the dead sea scrolls is just bunk? Like I said, not everything in parables and Bible stories are mean’t to be taken 100% literally but the people and places and events in general have been proven historically. There was a Joshua, there was a Jacob, there was a Jesus, there were all of the disciples, there was a King Soloman, there was a King David, there was the whole story of Potiphers wife and Joseph.[/quote]

Your statement that, “…but they also all have been confirmed historically…” is WAY out of line. In fact, the major events in the bible, the ones that give it its supernatural authority, are entirely lacking in historical evidence. I don’t claim that the major locations don’t/didn’t exist…we can all go visit Jerusalem today if we want. I claim that anything of a supernatural nature that supposedly happened did not happen or that it has a logical, natural cause thereby taking it out of the realm of the supernatural.[/quote]

I understand your point and I wasn’t referencing the supernatural. No where did I mention the supernatural. However, in general the Bible is historical and there are events in the Bible that are said to be caused by supernatural forces and even science has to try to figure out how things took place. So even if we take the supernatural out of the equation, the people, places and particular events from the Bible did occur.
[/quote]

Lets say I write a story. It takes place in the Chilis restaurant on Hwy. 6 and 290 in Houston, Texas. This story says that a server at the restaurant, named Chuck, was visited by God during his shift and told that he is the savior of all mankind. That fact that there really is a Chilis at that location, and that there really is a server there named Chuck, does not automatically mean the other part about god is true. The reason I point out the supernatural is because that is what gives the bible and Christianity its special authority. If we take out all of the special/magical/miraculous things that happened (as you suggest in your final statement) it isn’t anything special. It is merely fictional storied created around historical people and places.[/quote]

That is true but I do believe in the supernatural of the Bible and I’ve seen it at work in peoples lives. I was just talking about taking the supernatural out of it in regards to your thoughts about Noah’s ark not being real and so on. Athiests love to bring up science so I was just stating even without the supernatural that you don’t believe in, Noah’s ark was real and so were the basis for everything else that is stated as occuring. Scientifically, it looks like that very well could be a giant ark on Mt. Ararat. That’s what I was getting at.

And you will probably say it’s bs or just in my head, or something else can be the explanation but I have seen a handful of miracles in my life that can’t be explained as anything else. I’ve seen a tumor there one minute and absolutely gone the next and I even saw a short gimp leg grow to a full healthy one right in front of my eyes. You can call me crazy but I’ve seen enough in my short lifetime to believe in something bigger than me and bigger than us. I truly believe if you’ve seen what I’ve seen in my life, you would change your current mindset. I appreciate the discussion though. Life’s hard and it’s nice to know I have something to lean on even if you believe it’s imaginary.

86

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]honest_lifter wrote:
If you believe Jesus Christ lived or is real, then you would do well to believe the flood as the event it says it was in the Bible. Jesus himself mentions Noah and the flood. [/quote]

Or we can believe that Jesus (if he really existed) was like most all leaders, political or religious, and was willing to spin tales and build upon existing beliefs and stories in order to build a following and expand his power.[/quote]

Yeah, you can.

For those that believe in Jesus of the Bible and accept him for the man he was, you would do well to believe the flood as the event it says it was in the Bible.

87

And JSMaxwell, your statement about science telling us that gasses did create this universe are unfounded. That isn’t even close to fact or even believed by the entire scientific community. Also your assertion that Jesus might not be real in your response to honest lifter. It’s another historical fact that Jesus was a Nazarene who was crucified in Jerusalem. You can’t really debate that one.

89

[quote]Fleck wrote:
And JSMaxwell, your statement about science telling us that gasses did create this universe are unfounded. That isn’t even close to fact or even believed by the entire scientific community. Also your assertion that Jesus might not be real in your response to honest lifter. It’s another historical fact that Jesus was a Nazarene who was crucified in Jerusalem. You can’t really debate that one.[/quote]

Very few things are believed by the ENTIRE scientific community. It is the open disagreement and discussion about those things that is the strength of the scientific community. However, my most recent research tells me that the current consensus among cosmologists is that the universe did begin via the formation and combination of gasses such as hydrogen and helium.

Furthermore the existence of someone named Jesus from Nazarene that was crucified in Jerusalem gives no weight to any of the supernatural arguments, which we have already discussed is what makes the whole idea special. I have a little boy named Jesus in my class this year. Granted he is from Mexico and it is pronounced hey-sus. Crucifixions were a daily practice in that part of the world at that time. So even if I grant you the existence of a person named Jesus, from Nazarene, crucified in Jerusalem it really means nothing special.

90

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE…
[/quote]

The fool hath said…[/quote]

Your well thought out, eloquent, rational, and logical additions to this discussion are just amazing.

91

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
And JSMaxwell, your statement about science telling us that gasses did create this universe are unfounded. That isn’t even close to fact or even believed by the entire scientific community. Also your assertion that Jesus might not be real in your response to honest lifter. It’s another historical fact that Jesus was a Nazarene who was crucified in Jerusalem. You can’t really debate that one.[/quote]

Very few things are believed by the ENTIRE scientific community. It is the open disagreement and discussion about those things that is the strength of the scientific community. However, my most recent research tells me that the current consensus among cosmologists is that the universe did begin via the formation and combination of gasses such as hydrogen and helium.

Furthermore the existence of someone named Jesus from Nazarene that was crucified in Jerusalem gives no weight to any of the supernatural arguments, which we have already discussed is what makes the whole idea special. I have a little boy named Jesus in my class this year. Granted he is from Mexico and it is pronounced hey-sus. Crucifixions were a daily practice in that part of the world at that time. So even if I grant you the existence of a person named Jesus, from Nazarene, crucified in Jerusalem it really means nothing special.[/quote]

The Pharisees of the time, you know, the ones that hated Jesus and denied he was the Messiah; they never once questioned his lineage. I thought that was pretty interesting, and profound at the same time.

93

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
And JSMaxwell, your statement about science telling us that gasses did create this universe are unfounded. That isn’t even close to fact or even believed by the entire scientific community. Also your assertion that Jesus might not be real in your response to honest lifter. It’s another historical fact that Jesus was a Nazarene who was crucified in Jerusalem. You can’t really debate that one.[/quote]

Very few things are believed by the ENTIRE scientific community. It is the open disagreement and discussion about those things that is the strength of the scientific community. However, my most recent research tells me that the current consensus among cosmologists is that the universe did begin via the formation and combination of gasses such as hydrogen and helium.

Furthermore the existence of someone named Jesus from Nazarene that was crucified in Jerusalem gives no weight to any of the supernatural arguments, which we have already discussed is what makes the whole idea special. I have a little boy named Jesus in my class this year. Granted he is from Mexico and it is pronounced hey-sus. Crucifixions were a daily practice in that part of the world at that time. So even if I grant you the existence of a person named Jesus, from Nazarene, crucified in Jerusalem it really means nothing special.[/quote]

You’re going a little overboard with the Jesus thing. Yes there are others named Jesus and yes folks were crucified everyday in that part of the world. The facts are there was a man named Jesus from Nazareth from the blood lines of Judah who became so well known for his healing that the Romans were scared of his power and annoyed that everyone in the area was calling him King of the Jews. He was welcomed into the city of Jerusalem where people layed down their cloaks and palm leaves in front of him. Even if you don’t believe in his miracles, you can’t deny that the Bible’s particular Jesus gained widespread notiriety and wasn’t just a random criminal who was randomly crucified and had a common name. Even Muslims whose main prophet is Muhammed believe Jesus was a great prophet.

94

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE…
[/quote]

The fool hath said…[/quote]

Your well thought out, eloquent, rational, and logical additions to this discussion are just amazing.[/quote]

Looks like Tony Tiger ate his whole bowl of Frosted Flakes this morning. Feeling “great”, aren’t you?[/quote]

Wow…I guess my thoughtful discussions are no match for your copy/paste ability. You should really consider debating some of the leading thinkers in this area such as Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins. Your ability to clip cartoons and pictures from websites will surely unravel their arguments.

96

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE…
[/quote]

The fool hath said…[/quote]

Your well thought out, eloquent, rational, and logical additions to this discussion are just amazing.[/quote]

Anyone who is enough of an arrogant cocksucker to say, “I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me,” is not worthy of “well thought out, eloquent, rational, and logical additions to this discussion.”

(“Arrogant cocksucker” was not a typo)[/quote]

Don’t quote mine me. I said, “…foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS ISSUE.” I fully acknowledge and respect your superiority over me in the arena of scoring with multiple women.

98

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

1.) The fact that people of greater intelligence than me believe in a god in no way establishes his existence.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but when did we start a conversation about disproving the existence of God? I am responding to your own comments that belittled the intelligence of everyone who believes in God.

[quote]
2.) If someone were to tell you they believe the tooth fairy actually exists…that there is a little winged creature that takes lost teeth for money…you would feel more intelligent than them. If you say you would not, I will accuse you of lying without hesitation. The concept of a god (any god) is as valid as the tooth fairy.[/quote]

You are equating religion once again with children’s fairy tales…which of course is your right as a human being, but once again is a tactic used to act as everyone who believes in God is somehow so foolish that they match the intellectual level of a child. I will ask you again, how does your lack of belief make you better than me?

How does it make you an intellectual adult in terms of religion and how does it make me a child?

How arrogant does someone like you have to be to judge someone like me as less than you for believing in a higher power?

Nothing you have written has indicated any sort of intellectual prowess over anyone else in this thread. With that in mind, how did you arrive at the conclusion that my belief makes me childlike compared to you?

What have you done in life that puts you above all people who believe in God?

Please list your attributes that put the rest of us to shame.

[quote]
3.) The reason people like me are throwing insults is because we are tired of the crap. For years we have been told things like, “You will burn in hell,” “You are an evil person,” “Don’t you know the truth?” I think my favorite one was, “People like you should be sterilized and prevented from having kids because without a belief in God (she didn’t specify which one) you would do more harm than good by having children.”[/quote]

Wait, who in this thread directed any words like this towards you? You are the one who came in insulting anyone like me, not the other way around.

So again, how are you better than me?

Who pushed their beliefs on you?

You may get some responses YOU may not like either.

99

My mom thinks “they” have actually found Noah’s Ark. Fucking shit sucks.

100

I think pretty much all of old testament is just a bunch of stories. I mean living in a fish, having golden power hands etc…