Did Noahs Arc Really Happen

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
61

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.

62

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

1.) The fact that people of greater intelligence than me believe in a god in no way establishes his existence.

2.) If someone were to tell you they believe the tooth fairy actually exists…that there is a little winged creature that takes lost teeth for money…you would feel more intelligent than them. If you say you would not, I will accuse you of lying without hesitation. The concept of a god (any god) is as valid as the tooth fairy.

3.) The reason people like me are throwing insults is because we are tired of the crap. For years we have been told things like, “You will burn in hell,” “You are an evil person,” “Don’t you know the truth?” I think my favorite one was, “People like you should be sterilized and prevented from having kids because without a belief in God (she didn’t specify which one) you would do more harm than good by having children.”

4.) Everyone is free to believe what they want. I ask two things: 1.)Don’t push your beliefs on me and 2.)If a question is posed be prepared to hear a response you may not like.

63

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

dunno but if you look further into it you can trace the story back to an older religion, an old babylonian poem or something.

64

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

+1

Great post Prof X. And for all of you who are so confident that the ark and the entire story in general is bogus, go do some research on Mt. Ararat. There are several satellite images that show a large ship/ark imbedded into the top side of the mountain.

65

[quote]matko5 wrote:
I think only in America there is even a discussion between teaching creationism and evolution[/quote]

Good point. In IIslamic countries like malaysia there’s no debate; Its forbidden to teach evolution.

66

[quote]wigsa wrote:

[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:
You have to realize that all people fall on the bell curve. No matter what type of organization of which you are a part, you’ll always have the pedophiles or other messed up people. They do not define an entire religion.

[/quote]

Bullshit.The proportion of paedophiles to priests in Ireland is fucking outrageous.And it’s being revealed as being the same all across Europe at the moment,including in the pope’s diocese when he was a bishop.He knew and covered it up.

Do you know 1 in 4 adults in Ireland have been sexually abused by a member of the Catholic Church?[/quote]

where can you possibly have gotten that number from. Does that include people like my mother who were swatted over the knuckles with rulers?

67

I doubt that a new T-Nation thread is going to be able to put to rest a topic of discussion that has existed for hundreds of years.

This should be moved to the “Politics and World Issues” forum.

68

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

+1

Great post Prof X. And for all of you who are so confident that the ark and the entire story in general is bogus, go do some research on Mt. Ararat. There are several satellite images that show a large ship/ark imbedded into the top side of the mountain.

[/quote]

They do not show a “large ship/ark imbedded into the tops side of the mountain.” They show a shape that is not consistent with the surrounding natural landscape. As Joe Rogan eloquently pointed out in the video, it is a hell of a leap to say satellite image = Noah’s Ark.

69

[[[3.) The reason people like me are throwing insults is because we are tired of the crap. For years we have been told things like, “You will burn in hell,” “You are an evil person,” “Don’t you know the truth?” I think my favorite one was, “People like you should be sterilized and prevented from having kids because without a belief in God (she didn’t specify which one) you would do more harm than good by having children.”]]]

So this makes you hate all christians and what they believe because you’ve experienced bad apples that exist in every group in society?

I’ve had black people call me a honky and try to fight me just cause I was in the wrong neighborhood. Does that make me hate all black people and cancel out anything they believe? I had a muslim female friend who told me my religion was bunk and I was crazy to think differently than her. Should that make me hate everyone whose muslim?

Your reasoning for talking crap to christians is fairly ridiculous. I know far more christians (at least in my life) who try to love on everyone and don’t go around throwing out accusations. There are a those I know who do that but they’re in the minority. In the inner city where I’m from, all of the organizations that feed the poor and give them housing are christian organizations. In my experiences it’s athiests across the board who hate everyone who believes in something.

70

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

+1

Great post Prof X. And for all of you who are so confident that the ark and the entire story in general is bogus, go do some research on Mt. Ararat. There are several satellite images that show a large ship/ark imbedded into the top side of the mountain.

[/quote]

They do not show a “large ship/ark imbedded into the tops side of the mountain.” They show a shape that is not consistent with the surrounding natural landscape. As Joe Rogan eloquently pointed out in the video, it is a hell of a leap to say satellite image = Noah’s Ark.[/quote]

You’re grasping at straws right now. There are hundreds of images and even more material that explain it as being an ark-like structure. There was even a particular research paper (I’ll find it if you like) and televison program that somehow did long range measurements and they compared very favorably to the dimensions that the Bible lists for the ark.

71

[quote]Fleck wrote:
[[[3.) The reason people like me are throwing insults is because we are tired of the crap. For years we have been told things like, “You will burn in hell,” “You are an evil person,” “Don’t you know the truth?” I think my favorite one was, “People like you should be sterilized and prevented from having kids because without a belief in God (she didn’t specify which one) you would do more harm than good by having children.”]]]

So this makes you hate all christians and what they believe because you’ve experienced bad apples that exist in every group in society?

I’ve had black people call me a honky and try to fight me just cause I was in the wrong neighborhood. Does that make me hate all black people and cancel out anything they believe? I had a muslim female friend who told me my religion was bunk and I was crazy to think differently than her. Should that make me hate everyone whose muslim?

Your reasoning for talking crap to christians is fairly ridiculous. I know far more christians (at least in my life) who try to love on everyone and don’t go around throwing out accusations. There are a those I know who do that but they’re in the minority. In the inner city where I’m from, all of the organizations that feed the poor and give them housing are christian organizations. In my experiences it’s athiests across the board who hate everyone who believes in something.
[/quote]

Can you show me anywhere that I said I hate all Christians? I never said that, but nice try. I think all Christians are wrong with respect to their belief in the existence of a supreme being. In fact I think anyone that believes a god exists is wrong about that. Furthermore, this idea that I have somehow insulted believers is wrong. In my original post I connected the story of Noah’s Ark to other “stories” most people (hopefully) consider nothing more than fairy tales in order to make my point.

72

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]clip11 wrote:
I was wondering is the biblical story of Noahs ark really true. I mean for one, an impossibly old man, Noah, who was 500 years old when he started building the ark and 600 when he finished. And two of every animal in the world being rounded up is also impossible…that in itself raises alot of questions.

Is there any independent evidence of this happening?[/quote]

Of course it happened. The tooth fairy was the first mate, bigfoot was in charge of ship security, the Loch Ness Monster was the activities director, and the aliens were in charge of navigation. The aliens had some trouble because all of their crop circles were covered with water, but they managed. Oh yeah…I almost forgot…Santa was in charge of the animals. His experience with the reindeer helped.

Someone please explain to me why, in 2010, we are still dealing with these stories. How can people that presumably use logic and critical thinking to make decisions for their job switch off their brains when it comes to stories about magic gardens, talking snakes, and people getting swallowed by big fish?[/quote]

People smarter than you and more accomplished than you believe in God. What bothers me is the arrogance that allows some of you to walk around believing that a lack of belief somehow makes you smarter or superior.

I have yet to see this superior intelligence from any of you.

Simply not believing isn’t enough for you. You have some need to throw insults at those who do believe in some lame effort to let us know how wonderfully grounded you are.

I believe in God. Please show me how this makes you better than me.[/quote]

+1

Great post Prof X. And for all of you who are so confident that the ark and the entire story in general is bogus, go do some research on Mt. Ararat. There are several satellite images that show a large ship/ark imbedded into the top side of the mountain.

[/quote]

They do not show a “large ship/ark imbedded into the tops side of the mountain.” They show a shape that is not consistent with the surrounding natural landscape. As Joe Rogan eloquently pointed out in the video, it is a hell of a leap to say satellite image = Noah’s Ark.[/quote]

You’re grasping at straws right now. There are hundreds of images and even more material that explain it as being an ark-like structure. There was even a particular research paper (I’ll find it if you like) and televison program that somehow did long range measurements and they compared very favorably to the dimensions that the Bible lists for the ark.
[/quote]

I’m grasping at straws? You are claiming that satellite images confirm a story about a magical boat built thousands of years ago that somehow held two of every animal for 40 days and 40 nights. I’m doing this from memory, but back when I did the math to calculate the size of the ark based on the measurements given in the bible it wouldn’t have been big enough to hold two of every insect let alone two of every animal. Now lets see who starts grasping at straws as you try to explain that the bible doesn’t really mean two of every animal.

73

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

1.) The fact that people of greater intelligence than me believe in a god in no way establishes his existence.

2.) If someone were to tell you they believe the tooth fairy actually exists…that there is a little winged creature that takes lost teeth for money…you would feel more intelligent than them. If you say you would not, I will accuse you of lying without hesitation. The concept of a god (any god) is as valid as the tooth fairy.
[/quote]

For clarification, the last line of 2 above indicates to me that you believe that ANYONE who believes in ANY god, is foolish(and potentially of lesser intelligence than you, as seems to be your implication)? Do you not feel it is possible for a person to believe in a form of “god” while not believing it to adhere to the “fairy tales” of the bible(basically, most forms of agnostics). I have an assumption as to what your answer will be, but want to give you the benefit of the doubt first.

74

JSMaxell:

I’m not saying that there were two of every animal in the entire world and every thing that was stated is exactly how it happened. They are stories and they are parables but they also all have been confirmed historically and there is a very real possiblity that Noah’s ark is on Mt. Ararat. You’re just skeptical of it because you don’t believe it and don’t want to believe it. I don’t blame you honestly, but the ark is a real possibility.

You’re telling me the dead sea scrolls is just bunk? Like I said, not everything in parables and Bible stories are mean’t to be taken 100% literally but the people and places and events in general have been proven historically. There was a Joshua, there was a Jacob, there was a Jesus, there were all of the disciples, there was a King Soloman, there was a King David, there was the whole story of Potiphers wife and Joseph.

75

[quote]red04 wrote:

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

1.) The fact that people of greater intelligence than me believe in a god in no way establishes his existence.

2.) If someone were to tell you they believe the tooth fairy actually exists…that there is a little winged creature that takes lost teeth for money…you would feel more intelligent than them. If you say you would not, I will accuse you of lying without hesitation. The concept of a god (any god) is as valid as the tooth fairy.
[/quote]

For clarification, the last line of 2 above indicates to me that you believe that ANYONE who believes in ANY god, is foolish(and potentially of lesser intelligence than you, as seems to be your implication)? Do you not feel it is possible for a person to believe in a form of “god” while not believing it to adhere to the “fairy tales” of the bible(basically, most forms of agnostics). I have an assumption as to what your answer will be, but want to give you the benefit of the doubt first.
[/quote]

Of course it is, as you say, “…possible for a person to believe in a form of “god” while not believing it to adhere to the “fairy tales” of the bible.” People are free to believe whatever they want, to whatever degree they want. Deists tend to believe, but not always, that a god exists, created things, but has no intervention in the goings on of life. On the other end of the spectrum are people that believe that a God exists and is very involved in day-to-day activities.

Though I must ask…how does someone arrive at the conclusion that a god exists without believing in the stories that describe his existence?

Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I wouldn’t dream of contradicting any of Prof. X’s claims with regards to dental science or building a huge physique. Compared to him, on those topics, I am way less intelligent and way more foolish.

76

[quote]Fleck wrote:
JSMaxell:

I’m not saying that there were two of every animal in the entire world and every thing that was stated is exactly how it happened. They are stories and they are parables but they also all have been confirmed historically and there is a very real possiblity that Noah’s ark is on Mt. Ararat. You’re just skeptical of it because you don’t believe it and don’t want to believe it. I don’t blame you honestly, but the ark is a real possibility.

You’re telling me the dead sea scrolls is just bunk? Like I said, not everything in parables and Bible stories are mean’t to be taken 100% literally but the people and places and events in general have been proven historically. There was a Joshua, there was a Jacob, there was a Jesus, there were all of the disciples, there was a King Soloman, there was a King David, there was the whole story of Potiphers wife and Joseph.[/quote]

Your statement that, “…but they also all have been confirmed historically…” is WAY out of line. In fact, the major events in the bible, the ones that give it its supernatural authority, are entirely lacking in historical evidence. I don’t claim that the major locations don’t/didn’t exist…we can all go visit Jerusalem today if we want. I claim that anything of a supernatural nature that supposedly happened did not happen or that it has a logical, natural cause thereby taking it out of the realm of the supernatural.

77

[[[Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I wouldn’t dream of contradicting any of Prof. X’s claims with regards to dental science or building a huge physique. Compared to him, on those topics, I am way less intelligent and way more foolish.]]]

But believing there is a God or isn’t is a matter of opinion. You don’t believe in God and I do so how does that make you more intelligent. There isn’t anything concrete that you can use to debunk God and there really isn’t anything I can say to guaranty his existence. I think looking in the mirror and walking on this beautiful earth confirms there is a God but neither of us are 110%. On the other hand we are completely 110% positive that Prof. X knows more about dentistry than you do. We can’t make that claim about God.

78

[quote]Fleck wrote:
[[[Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I wouldn’t dream of contradicting any of Prof. X’s claims with regards to dental science or building a huge physique. Compared to him, on those topics, I am way less intelligent and way more foolish.]]]

But believing there is a God or isn’t is a matter of opinion. You don’t believe in God and I do so how does that make you more intelligent. There isn’t anything concrete that you can use to debunk God and there really isn’t anything I can say to guaranty his existence. I think looking in the mirror and walking on this beautiful earth confirms there is a God but neither of us are 110%. On the other hand we are completely 110% positive that Prof. X knows more about dentistry than you do. We can’t make that claim about God.
[/quote]

I disagree. I think logic, study, and rational thought can lead to only one conclusion. Your statement that I can’t disprove the existence of a god is correct. It isn’t possible to prove something doesn’t exist. Can you prove there is not an invisible unicorn somewhere in your living room right now? Of course not, there could be one, but I venture a guess that you think there isn’t one. The fact that we can’t prove something doesn’t exist doesn’t mean we should believe it does exist. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim of existence.

79

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
JSMaxell:

I’m not saying that there were two of every animal in the entire world and every thing that was stated is exactly how it happened. They are stories and they are parables but they also all have been confirmed historically and there is a very real possiblity that Noah’s ark is on Mt. Ararat. You’re just skeptical of it because you don’t believe it and don’t want to believe it. I don’t blame you honestly, but the ark is a real possibility.

You’re telling me the dead sea scrolls is just bunk? Like I said, not everything in parables and Bible stories are mean’t to be taken 100% literally but the people and places and events in general have been proven historically. There was a Joshua, there was a Jacob, there was a Jesus, there were all of the disciples, there was a King Soloman, there was a King David, there was the whole story of Potiphers wife and Joseph.[/quote]

Your statement that, “…but they also all have been confirmed historically…” is WAY out of line. In fact, the major events in the bible, the ones that give it its supernatural authority, are entirely lacking in historical evidence. I don’t claim that the major locations don’t/didn’t exist…we can all go visit Jerusalem today if we want. I claim that anything of a supernatural nature that supposedly happened did not happen or that it has a logical, natural cause thereby taking it out of the realm of the supernatural.[/quote]

I understand your point and I wasn’t referencing the supernatural. No where did I mention the supernatural. However, in general the Bible is historical and there are events in the Bible that are said to be caused by supernatural forces and even science has to try to figure out how things took place. So even if we take the supernatural out of the equation, the people, places and particular events from the Bible did occur.

80

[quote]JSMaxwell wrote:

[quote]Fleck wrote:
[[[Furthermore I want to clarify. I believe that people who believe in the existence of a god are foolish and less intelligent than me ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. I wouldn’t dream of contradicting any of Prof. X’s claims with regards to dental science or building a huge physique. Compared to him, on those topics, I am way less intelligent and way more foolish.]]]

But believing there is a God or isn’t is a matter of opinion. You don’t believe in God and I do so how does that make you more intelligent. There isn’t anything concrete that you can use to debunk God and there really isn’t anything I can say to guaranty his existence. I think looking in the mirror and walking on this beautiful earth confirms there is a God but neither of us are 110%. On the other hand we are completely 110% positive that Prof. X knows more about dentistry than you do. We can’t make that claim about God.
[/quote]

I disagree. I think logic, study, and rational thought can lead to only one conclusion. Your statement that I can’t disprove the existence of a god is correct. It isn’t possible to prove something doesn’t exist. Can you prove there is not an invisible unicorn somewhere in your living room right now? Of course not, there could be one, but I venture a guess that you think there isn’t one. The fact that we can’t prove something doesn’t exist doesn’t mean we should believe it does exist. Burden of proof is on the person making the claim of existence.[/quote]

And that’s where we disagree again. Logic, study and rational thought would lead me to believe that this earth, the planets, and everything else that exists didn’t just happen. It also wouldn’t lead me to believe that a fish grew legs and became a lizard and then the lizard evolved into an aquaman and the aqua man became a caveman. I know that last line sounds stupid, but it’s just as illogical to believe that random gasses and evolution created everything that currently exists than it is to believe a greater being created this all. That doesn’t make you more intelligent or less intelligent than me.