Did Noahs Arc Really Happen

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
481

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
“We think we know what’s going on with Turkey archaeologically at that time, and there’s no major interruption in the culture.”

-Paul Zimansky, archaeologist and historian at Stony Brook University who specializes in the Near East (in particular, the region around Ararat - Urartu)

Interesting problem there, too.[/quote]

I fixed that for Mr. Zimansky. I won’t explain why I feel I’m more of an authority on Turkey than a university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region, nor will I bother going into detail about the various reasons why I’m confident he doesn’t REALLY know what he claims to.[/quote]

Fixed that typo for ya, brother.

484

No, it didn’t. Mythology =/= fact.

485

[quote]pushharder wrote:
What I do know is Mr. Zimansky was not alive 4800 years ago and therefore completely incapable of administering the scientific method which invariably requires observation and experimentation.

Another question, what if another university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region came up with a different date frame for what was happening archeologically in Turkey at that time? Who would be “right?” Mr. Zimansky or the other guy?[/quote]

So what you are saying is because no one was actually alive to personally observe various historical events firsthand, we should disregard all evidence, no matter how sound or plentiful, as to what occurred because we can’t experiment to be sure? Or do you perhaps feel he is simply spitballing in regards to what he feels was happening at that point in history?

This is, of course, keeping in mind the fact that we are talking about a giant flood that lasted quite some time and supposedly decimated entire civilizations, not quibbling over the fine print of history texts.

I’ll answer your ‘what if’ scenario when (if) another university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region actually comes forward with a different date frame for what was happening archeologically in Turkey at that time… keeping in mind that we are not arguing over fine print but, instead, discussing broad strokes of major historical significance.

When a university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region says, “ya know what, fellas, there is a huge stretch of time during that particular period where this civilization appears to have abruptly fallen off the edge of the earth”, THEN I will comment further.

487

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:
What I do know is Mr. Zimansky was not alive 4800 years ago and therefore completely incapable of administering the scientific method which invariably requires observation and experimentation.

Another question, what if another university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region came up with a different date frame for what was happening archeologically in Turkey at that time? Who would be “right?” Mr. Zimansky or the other guy?[/quote]

So what you are saying is because no one was actually alive to personally observe various historical events firsthand, we should disregard all evidence, no matter how sound or plentiful, as to what occurred because we can’t experiment to be sure? Or do you perhaps feel he is simply spitballing in regards to what he feels was happening at that point in history?

This is, of course, keeping in mind the fact that we are talking about a giant flood that lasted quite some time and supposedly decimated entire civilizations, not quibbling over the fine print of history texts.

I’ll answer your ‘what if’ scenario when (if) another university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region came up with a different date frame for what was happening archeologically in Turkey at that time… keeping in mind that we are not arguing over fine print but, instead, discussing broad strokes of major historical significance.

When a university historian/archaeologist who specializes in that particular region says, “ya know what, fellas, there is a huge stretch of time during that particular period where this civilization appears to have abruptly fallen off the edge of the earth”, THEN I will comment further.[/quote]

You seemingly misconstrued what I said. I sincerely said Zimansky may indeed be right. But he doesn’t “know” that things happened precisely as he “thinks” they may have. The distance in time is too great.

Ancient Turkish, Egyptian and Mesopotamian cultures can’t be studied with the precision that 18th century American or Turkish or Egyptian culture can.

Again, he may be right and there is a “wrong” somewhere else in this equation.[/quote]

But that is why I made note of the significance of the event we are discussing. While he and other archaeologists/historians may very well be wrong, you seem to be suggesting that it is entirely realistic that they are off to such a startling degree that their studied civilizations (and we are speaking of several here) abruptly ended - and resumed - without anyone noticing the gap.

489

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]JayPierce wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Regardless of what you believe, you have to marvel that there really has turned out to be some sort of advanced wooden structure 13,000 feet up on top of a mountain. I would hope that both sides of the argument would be more interested in figuring out exactly what this is, instead of just digging in their heels and yelling louder about the same crap they’d been discussing before this came to light.

[/quote]

Are you kidding me? Out of all the people who think they have this shit figured out, which one do you think is going to be the first to admit the possibility that they’re wrong?[/quote]

Uhh, have you followed any of the “religious” debates on PWI thus far?[/quote]

I should have been more clear. I was referring to the ‘communities’ who have a stake in the argument, not anyone posting here.

490

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Here is a claim to finding the arc in Turkey.

Wait.

Wait.

Are you back to your old avatar?

491

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
“If floodwaters covered Eurasia 12,000 feet deep in 2,800 BC, how did the complex societies of Egypt and Mesopotamia, already many centuries old, keep right on regardless?”

  • Nicholas Purcell, Oxford University

Interesting question.[/quote]

I’d look at this a few ways:

The dating of the wood in the structure was imprecise or flawed? Could it be older?

The dating method is possibly flawed?

The dating of the Egyptian and Mesopotamian societies is flawed?

Someone(s) built this structure a long time ago before the mountain was glaciated at lower elevations where lumber was available and carried the structure up the mountain and left it there?

Someone(s) built this structure a long time ago at 13,000 ft above sea level before the mountain was glaciated and when forests grew at that altitude and left it there?

It is a fraud? A big one? And the ones responsible should be drawn and quartered?

A large catastrophic event occurred that floated this structure from somewhere else and left it at this altitude? Something akin to what Genesis described?

What am I missing? (No cheap shots, please. I’m trying to be a nice guy here)[/quote]

Push do you really believe half that shit you posted.

493

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Here is a claim to finding the arc in Turkey.

Wait.

Wait.

Are you back to your old avatar?[/quote]

Hostile, Retro and Vintage baby!!!

494

Push, I’ll accept that I’m mistaken in my interpretation of the word “kind,” but I think that even if we assume a reasonable number of animals were taken on the ark, and the rest were wiped out, then there is a severe problem: phylogenetics.

And regarding the Noah’s ark story, I was not talking about the ark being deposited on a mountain top. I don’t think that is likely.

495

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]horsepuss wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]anonym wrote:
“If floodwaters covered Eurasia 12,000 feet deep in 2,800 BC, how did the complex societies of Egypt and Mesopotamia, already many centuries old, keep right on regardless?”

  • Nicholas Purcell, Oxford University

Interesting question.[/quote]

I’d look at this a few ways:

The dating of the wood in the structure was imprecise or flawed? Could it be older?

The dating method is possibly flawed?

The dating of the Egyptian and Mesopotamian societies is flawed?

Someone(s) built this structure a long time ago before the mountain was glaciated at lower elevations where lumber was available and carried the structure up the mountain and left it there?

Someone(s) built this structure a long time ago at 13,000 ft above sea level before the mountain was glaciated and when forests grew at that altitude and left it there?

It is a fraud? A big one? And the ones responsible should be drawn and quartered?

A large catastrophic event occurred that floated this structure from somewhere else and left it at this altitude? Something akin to what Genesis described?

What am I missing? (No cheap shots, please. I’m trying to be a nice guy here)[/quote]

Push do you really believe half that shit you posted.[/quote]

You’re going to have to try and do better than that. I objectively presented several scenarios that might explain this discovery. If you have some that I missed slap some of your shit up here. Let the shit examiners here on PWI have a go at your shit. Don’t just talk shit, show us your shit.

FTR, I didn’t say I believed the shit I posted; I merely posted the shit to further the discussion. Now where’s your shit?[/quote]

Ok then lets review.

Someone carried a huge boat up a mountain.- I dont think so

Someone built a boat on a mountain without any water in sight.- I dont think so

The age of the wood being flawed,- this I can agree with.

The dating of the Egyptian and Mesopotamian societies is flawed?- The archeological community all pretty much agrees that the methods used for dating are pretty sound. Now I feel the pyramids are much older than claimed but that is another discussion.

The ancients didnt seem to do alot of stuff that doesnt make much sense to us as to why they would do it.With the exception of the pyramids of Giza all things seem to have a purpose, wether we can explain that purpose or not.

497

I have no idea what it is exactly that they’ve found, so I don’t plan on speculating on what it is. I just think it’s unlikely to be Noah’s ark. I’m not ruling out the possibility that it is, of course.

I’d be interested to know what kind of process produced all the diverse life on Earth from only a handful of species in the ark over a period of a few thousand years.

500

I do apologise for the posts I’ve made that have been without any intention of carrying on a mature discussion.

Why am I not speculating? There’s hardly any information about what they’ve found, I’ve only seen a couple of pictures and some description of wood beams. For me that is not enough to even guess.

Why do I think it’s unlikely to be Noah’s ark? There are two constraints: the size and complexity of the vessel (and the amount of food it could carry), and the amount of time required to repopulate the Earth with animals. I don’t see how you can satisfy both at once. Of course, I’m working from a different set of assumptions than you are (common ancestry etc.). Really, I’m not arguing that Noah’s ark is incompatible with your beliefs, but they certainly are with mine.

And sorry for using the word “species” again, I’m thinking of it as a placeholder for whatever concept you like.