[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?
Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.
Nothing scummy about paying people to lie.
John Kerry says he injured himself. I am not sure your point.
Yeah and you say “accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten” Friendly fire injuries DO qualify for Purple Hearts and were “gotten” quite frequently in Vietnam. That was the lie you and they told.
[quote]On March 13, five Swift boats were returning to base together on the Bay Hap river from their missions that day. A mine detonated directly beneath one of the boats (PCF-3), lifting it into the air. Shortly thereafter, another mine exploded near Kerry’s boat (PCF-94). James Rassmann, a Green Beret advisor who was sitting on the deck of the pilothouse eating a chocolate chip cookie, was knocked overboard. Just afterwards, the boat came under attack from both sides of the bank. Rassmann dived to the bottom of the river. Repeatedly, when he came back up for air, the enemy fired at him. Rassmann was heading to the north bank, expecting to be taken prisoner, when Kerry realized he was gone and came back for him.
The Navy’s account of Kerry’s actions is presented in his medal citation:
Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service. (Wikisource)
PCF-94 received special recognition from Captain Roy Hoffmann, the commander of Task Force 115 (which included Coastal Division 11), on March 14 in his weekly report to his men:
Special recognition is due to the following unit this week, for exceptional performance: To PCF 94 for providing extraordinary assistance to PCF 3 which was seriously damaged by a mine explosion while proceeding down the Bay Hap [river]. PCF 94 picked up the MSF advisor out of the water and towed PCF 3 out of the danger area. PCF 43, 51, and 23 all assisted in suppression of automatic weapons and small arms fire, evacuation of wounded in action, and damage control effort on PCF 3. [8]
After the dazed and injured crew of PCF-3 had been rescued, PCFs 43 and 23 left the scene to evacuate the four most seriously wounded sailors. PCFs 51 and 94 remained behind and helped salvage the stricken boat together with a damage-control party that had been immediately dispatched to the scene.
Kerry was wounded twice that day, and he would receive his third Purple Heart. His injuries included shrapnel wounds in his left upper buttock and contusions on his right forearm from hitting the bulkhead when the mine exploded near his boat.[/quote]
He has a silver star, a bronze star, and 3 purple hearts, he lead solders in combat and killed. What are we arguing about again?
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
According to Wikipedia, Zap is very wrong.
On March 13, five Swift boats were returning to base together on the Bay Hap river from their missions that day. A mine detonated directly beneath one of the boats (PCF-3), lifting it into the air. Shortly thereafter, another mine exploded near Kerry’s boat (PCF-94). James Rassmann, a Green Beret advisor who was sitting on the deck of the pilothouse eating a chocolate chip cookie, was knocked overboard. Just afterwards, the boat came under attack from both sides of the bank. Rassmann dived to the bottom of the river. Repeatedly, when he came back up for air, the enemy fired at him. Rassmann was heading to the north bank, expecting to be taken prisoner, when Kerry realized he was gone and came back for him.
The Navy’s account of Kerry’s actions is presented in his medal citation:
Lt. Kerry directed his gunners to provide suppressing fire, while from an exposed position on the bow, his arm bleeding and in pain, with disregard for his personal safety, he pulled the man aboard. Lt. Kerry then directed his boat to return and assist the other damaged craft and towed the boat to safety. Lt. Kerry's calmness, professionalism and great personal courage under fire were in keeping with the highest traditions of the US Naval Service. (Wikisource)
PCF-94 received special recognition from Captain Roy Hoffmann, the commander of Task Force 115 (which included Coastal Division 11), on March 14 in his weekly report to his men:
Special recognition is due to the following unit this week, for exceptional performance: To PCF 94 for providing extraordinary assistance to PCF 3 which was seriously damaged by a mine explosion while proceeding down the Bay Hap [river]. PCF 94 picked up the MSF advisor out of the water and towed PCF 3 out of the danger area. PCF 43, 51, and 23 all assisted in suppression of automatic weapons and small arms fire, evacuation of wounded in action, and damage control effort on PCF 3. [8]
After the dazed and injured crew of PCF-3 had been rescued, PCFs 43 and 23 left the scene to evacuate the four most seriously wounded sailors. PCFs 51 and 94 remained behind and helped salvage the stricken boat together with a damage-control party that had been immediately dispatched to the scene.
Kerry was wounded twice that day, and he would receive his third Purple Heart. His injuries included shrapnel wounds in his left upper buttock and contusions on his right forearm from hitting the bulkhead when the mine exploded near his boat.
He has a silver star, a bronze star, and 3 purple hearts, he lead solders in combat and killed. What are we arguing about again?
[/quote]
Wikipedia?
lol
Google Kerry purple heart rice and see the many. many, many, many entries disputing wiki.
More damning for Kerry is the fact Brinkley�??s biography records Kerry�??s war journal as Kerry writing, �??I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions.�??
So Zap, are you actually claiming that Kerry did not lead men into combat, kill, and get injured 3 times in the line of duty? Do you dispute that he served 2 tours in Vietnam? Do you question is Silver Star or Bronze Star?
As far as Wiki is concerned, this entry is fairly well sourced. Your link,is a right wing blog. I’ll trust our military (for giving the medals in the first place) above what some right wing blog says any day.
I’ll be blunt. IMO questioning a war time soldiers patriotism ranks as the lowest of the low in my book.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
So Zap, are you actually claiming that Kerry did not lead men into combat, kill, and get injured 3 times in the line of duty? Do you dispute that he served 2 tours in Vietnam? Do you question is Silver Star or Bronze Star?
[/quote]
He served but he also lied.
[quote]
As far as Wiki is concerned, this entry is fairly well sourced. Your link,is a right wing blog. I’ll trust our military (for giving the medals in the first place) above what some right wing blog says any day.
I’ll be blunt. IMO questioning a war time soldiers patriotism ranks as the lowest of the low in my book. [/quote]
Who is questioning his patriotism? Merely his honesty.
You are questioning his service. Do you have any (non right wing blog) proof of your accusations? Again, I’ll trust the military over right wing blogs any day.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
You are questioning his service. Do you have any (non right wing blog) proof of your accusations? Again, I’ll trust the military over right wing blogs any day. [/quote]
Of course I am questioning his service. Douglas Brinkley who wrote his biography Tour of Duty referenced Kerry’s own journal regarding the 3rd purple heart which states:
I got a piece of small grenade in my ass from one of the rice bin explosions.
Did Kerry lie in his journal?
We all know that the military is prone to changing the story in these circumstances. We need look no further than Pat Tillman.
Did Kerry lie in his journal for no benefit or did he lie later to enhance his reputation? Both stories cannot be true. Pick the most believable one.
The military says he was injured twice that day, and acted heroically after being injured. So heroically in fact, that they awarded him a bronze star. Do you question his exemplary service after being injured?
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
The military says he was injured twice that day, and acted heroically after being injured. So heroically in fact, that they awarded him a bronze star. Do you question his exemplary service after being injured?
[/quote]
His own journal disputes this as does the testimony of many people that said their was no enemy action at the time and there was nothing heroic to do. His journal also indicates the injury was the result of him destroying a pile of rice rather than the a mine explosion.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
The military says he was injured twice that day, and acted heroically after being injured. So heroically in fact, that they awarded him a bronze star. Do you question his exemplary service after being injured?
[/quote]
The military also said Pat Tillman was killed by the enemy action while performing some heroic action.
I am definitely NOT going to vote for McCain. However, that said, I don’t consider this pertinent, even if he did do it. I cannot be judgemental of someone who does/says something when undergoing torture.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
The military says he was injured twice that day, and acted heroically after being injured. So heroically in fact, that they awarded him a bronze star. Do you question his exemplary service after being injured?
His own journal disputes this as does the testimony of many people that said their was no enemy action at the time and there was nothing heroic to do. His journal also indicates the injury was the result of him destroying a pile of rice rather than the a mine explosion.
Do you dispute his journal?
[/quote]
I’ll be going to the library tomorrow (possibly tonight) for some personal research. I’ll look into your allegations at that time. Is this the book you say recounts the journal?
Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War by Douglas Brinkley
Is John Kerry’s journal published? I’ll find that as well if it is. We’ll see exactly what Brinkley says. If you have any other sources (non right wing blogs) please let me hear them now and I’ll look them up.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Gambit_Lost wrote:
The military says he was injured twice that day, and acted heroically after being injured. So heroically in fact, that they awarded him a bronze star. Do you question his exemplary service after being injured?
His own journal disputes this as does the testimony of many people that said their was no enemy action at the time and there was nothing heroic to do. His journal also indicates the injury was the result of him destroying a pile of rice rather than the a mine explosion.
Do you dispute his journal?
I’ll be going to the library tomorrow (possibly tonight) for some personal research. I’ll look into your allegations at that time. Is this the book you say recounts the journal?
Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War by Douglas Brinkley
Is John Kerry’s journal published? I’ll find that as well if it is. We’ll see exactly what Brinkley says. If you have any other sources (non right wing blogs) please let me hear them now and I’ll look them up.
[/quote]
Brinkley is the one that read Kerry’s journal and reports the quote. I have never read Tour of Duty, let me know if it in there or if he reported it outside the book.
I’ll find out exactly what he said and report it here. Are there any other reasons for you to disbelieve Kerry’s account? List the sources and I’ll either show them as accurate or debunk them here.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’ll find out exactly what he said and report it here. Are there any other reasons for you to disbelieve Kerry’s account? List the sources and I’ll either show them as accurate or debunk them here. [/quote]
I am not going to bother digging up testimony of all the people that said Kerry is full of shit. That is a he said/she said thing and it is a waste of time.
If Brinkley claims that the quote from Kerry’s journal is incorrect I would be interested in knowing.
I’ve now included a letter from Kerry’s boat-mates, a letter from another officer serving at that time, evidence from the time, and the report from a 2004 navy investigation.
If you have any counter evidence, please put it forth. I’ll be looking at that book tomorrow morning.
I’ve now included a letter from Kerry’s boat-mates, a letter from another officer serving at that time, evidence from the time, and the report from a 2004 navy investigation.
If you have any counter evidence, please put it forth. I’ll be looking at that book tomorrow morning.
[/quote]
All those reports and yet Kerry’s own journal says he was injured while destroying rice. I wonder if he was confused…
You’ve said several times that he “was not qualified” for the purple heart, that he lied about his service, and even questioned his bronze star. You’ve just been given irrefutable proof that he has earned the purple hearts, and bronze star. Yet you continue to insult his character and won’t admit you were wrong.
