Did McCain Make Propaganda Fims for Viet Nam

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
hedo wrote:
Veterans disliked Kerry because of his anti-war stance when he returned and his testimony to congress. Most lumped him in with Jane Fonda.

For him to run on his Vietnam Service, after what he said about it, was bizarre. I understand why he did it but still it seemed very hypocritical considering his anti-military posturing.

As to his war record who the fuck knows. It was a Silver Star after all and the military doesn’t hand those out like candy. The citations are dry and factual so the intensity of the moment doesn’t always come thru. I won’t judge him cause I didn’t see it.

On the surface the Purple Heart stuff seemed pretty minor to me but if he wanted to push it to get off the river then he was entitled to do so. Many others would not have.

Many would. Some guys get into that situation and they live for it. Others get torn up by it. Again the real issue is what he said afterwards and how it was used by the NVA as propoganda. That’s what Vets remember.

Nobody here should judge McCain over what happened when he was a POW. Few would survive as well as he did in that environment. Say what you want about his politics but he was a Naval Academy Grad, Combat fighter pilot and distinguished Senator admired by both parties. Few among us could do any of those three things.

Obama and his minions would be foolish to make it an issue considering BHO’s lack of military experience or understanding.

Do you believe there were Viet Nam Vets. Left over there that America was afraid to bring back?
[/quote]

Between Rambo and Chunk Norris they all came home.

22

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
hedo wrote:
Veterans disliked Kerry because of his anti-war stance when he returned and his testimony to congress. Most lumped him in with Jane Fonda.

For him to run on his Vietnam Service, after what he said about it, was bizarre. I understand why he did it but still it seemed very hypocritical considering his anti-military posturing.

As to his war record who the fuck knows. It was a Silver Star after all and the military doesn’t hand those out like candy. The citations are dry and factual so the intensity of the moment doesn’t always come thru. I won’t judge him cause I didn’t see it.

On the surface the Purple Heart stuff seemed pretty minor to me but if he wanted to push it to get off the river then he was entitled to do so. Many others would not have. Many would.

Some guys get into that situation and they live for it. Others get torn up by it. Again the real issue is what he said afterwards and how it was used by the NVA as propoganda. That’s what Vets remember.

Nobody here should judge McCain over what happened when he was a POW. Few would survive as well as he did in that environment. Say what you want about his politics but he was a Naval Academy Grad, Combat fighter pilot and distinguished Senator admired by both parties. Few among us could do any of those three things.

Obama and his minions would be foolish to make it an issue considering BHO’s lack of military experience or understanding.

Do you believe there were Viet Nam Vets. Left over there that America was afraid to bring back?

Between Rambo and Chunk Norris they all came home.
[/quote]

That is funny, I see your humor but there are people saying John McCain impeded the process of proving there were people left in Nam

23

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
905Patrick wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I have been waiting for years for someone to explain why this subject is off limits.

I think it’s scummy because it is irrelevant and it helps to erode and eliminate the level of discussion about the issues.

Back in 2004 there were more important things to talk about than what Kerry did or didn’t do while in the combat zone to get a purple heart. The fact was that he was over there doing what he felt was his best to serve the country. The same cannot be said about those who he was running against.

He made a huge deal of his own service at the Deocratic Convention. The fact that he only served 4 months and then took a free ride home on a fake Purple Heart is totally relevant.

I’m not a believer that those who rule a country need to serve in the military but to criticize those who do serve and to allow it to be a part of the campaign was pointless and it hurts the country.

I don’t recall Bush saying that the swift boat fellows should shut-up or that it wasn’t an issue. I believe he should have said that and proven that he was a true leader of character. The fact that he didn’t say it doesn’t change my view of him at all but it was a good opportunity to make the election about the issues and he didn’t take it.

I don’t recall Kerry telling people to shut up about the allegations of Bush’s cocaine use or the fae documents Rather used to show Bush skipped out of some of his National Guard weekends.

I think Obama’s drug dealing and the favoritism shown McCain because his dad was an Admiral should be considered when judging ther chraacters.

We all know their campaign promises are hollow.[/quote]

For what it’s worth, those are my reason for why I think the swift boat thing was scummy and stupid. I don’t necessarily believe it was out of line, just pointless and it takes things off track. It wasn’t about the issues when it should have been. The 2004 election more than any in recent times should have been about the issues.

Maybe this one will be…

24

If someone is breaking your bones or has done so and is threatening to do more, I’d wager that everyone here would sing like a canary.

While I did my ‘singing’, I’d be wishing we were all firebombed.

25

[quote]905Patrick wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
905Patrick wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I have been waiting for years for someone to explain why this subject is off limits.

I think it’s scummy because it is irrelevant and it helps to erode and eliminate the level of discussion about the issues.

Back in 2004 there were more important things to talk about than what Kerry did or didn’t do while in the combat zone to get a purple heart. The fact was that he was over there doing what he felt was his best to serve the country. The same cannot be said about those who he was running against.

He made a huge deal of his own service at the Deocratic Convention. The fact that he only served 4 months and then took a free ride home on a fake Purple Heart is totally relevant.

I’m not a believer that those who rule a country need to serve in the military but to criticize those who do serve and to allow it to be a part of the campaign was pointless and it hurts the country.

I don’t recall Bush saying that the swift boat fellows should shut-up or that it wasn’t an issue. I believe he should have said that and proven that he was a true leader of character. The fact that he didn’t say it doesn’t change my view of him at all but it was a good opportunity to make the election about the issues and he didn’t take it.

I don’t recall Kerry telling people to shut up about the allegations of Bush’s cocaine use or the fae documents Rather used to show Bush skipped out of some of his National Guard weekends.

I think Obama’s drug dealing and the favoritism shown McCain because his dad was an Admiral should be considered when judging ther chraacters.

We all know their campaign promises are hollow.

For what it’s worth, those are my reason for why I think the swift boat thing was scummy and stupid. I don’t necessarily believe it was out of line, just pointless and it takes things off track. It wasn’t about the issues when it should have been. The 2004 election more than any in recent times should have been about the issues.

Maybe this one will be… [/quote]

Don’t hold your breath.

26

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

[/quote]

Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.

Nothing scummy about paying people to lie.

27

It’s kind of hard to respect a guy who has Ann Coulter as his avatar.

28

What’s wrong with Anne Coulter?

29

[quote]905Patrick wrote:
…

For what it’s worth, those are my reason for why I think the swift boat thing was scummy and stupid. I don’t necessarily believe it was out of line, just pointless and it takes things off track. It wasn’t about the issues when it should have been. The 2004 election more than any in recent times should have been about the issues.

Maybe this one will be… [/quote]

2004 was about issues. They are all about issues. This stuff is just noise.

30

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
hedo wrote:
Veterans disliked Kerry because of his anti-war stance when he returned and his testimony to congress. Most lumped him in with Jane Fonda.

For him to run on his Vietnam Service, after what he said about it, was bizarre. I understand why he did it but still it seemed very hypocritical considering his anti-military posturing.

As to his war record who the fuck knows. It was a Silver Star after all and the military doesn’t hand those out like candy. The citations are dry and factual so the intensity of the moment doesn’t always come thru.

I won’t judge him cause I didn’t see it. On the surface the Purple Heart stuff seemed pretty minor to me but if he wanted to push it to get off the river then he was entitled to do so. Many others would not have. Many would.

Some guys get into that situation and they live for it. Others get torn up by it. Again the real issue is what he said afterwards and how it was used by the NVA as propoganda. That’s what Vets remember.

Nobody here should judge McCain over what happened when he was a POW. Few would survive as well as he did in that environment. Say what you want about his politics but he was a Naval Academy Grad, Combat fighter pilot and distinguished Senator admired by both parties. Few among us could do any of those three things.

Obama and his minions would be foolish to make it an issue considering BHO’s lack of military experience or understanding.

Do you believe there were Viet Nam Vets. Left over there that America was afraid to bring back?
[/quote]

Afraid to being back…no. They would have been welcomed during that time (late 70’s early 80’s). I think they tried to follow up on every lead they had. Maybe not officially or out in the open. I think POW’s were left behind, probably in Laos, that were simply never found and were most likely killed after the war.

Read up on a unit called the “Activity” from that era. Kind of a special forces recon and signals unit. That group and various other special operations teams were on call and ready to go numerous times but the intelligence always turned out to be false.

31

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.

Nothing scummy about paying people to lie. [/quote]

John Kerry says he injured himself. I am not sure your point.

32

[quote]Petedacook wrote:

What’s wrong with Anne Coulter? [/quote]

Nothing. But isn’t it ‘Ann’?

Ann is extreme; I like that. I like people of very strong opinions, left or right. Anybody can be a ‘weathervane’. Its takes integrity to take heat.

33

[quote]wirewound wrote:
It’s kind of hard to respect a guy who has Ann Coulter as his avatar.[/quote]

Well, between the guy with Ann in his avatar and the one that quotes and idolizes her, it’s real easy.

And no, I’m not referring to you.

34

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
I am not a big fan of McCain but I will probably vote for him.

That said, this is a bunch of garbage. I lose respect for anyone that associates themselves with it.

I resect what you are saying but if he did crack under pressure that would make him a different man than if he did not crack.

If he cracked under pressure he would have taken the offer and came home early. Instead he stuck around until all his fellow prisoners were released. That is the mark of a good man.[/quote]

That is the story that is told

35

[quote]Mah-lur wrote:
pittbulll wrote:
I resect what you are saying but if he did crack under pressure that would make him a different man than if he did not crack.

Oh, jesus. moron.[/quote]

Please explain

36

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.

Nothing scummy about paying people to lie.

John Kerry says he injured himself. I am not sure your point.[/quote]

I am not sure why you are avoiding the point that it is scummy to pay people to lie in order to deface another person’s character.

37

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
wirewound wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
wirewound wrote:
You know, Swift Boat Veterans for Truth set us up for this.

I really don’t want to see the republicans bitch about this shit now. Something about chickens coming home to roost comes to mind.

That said, anything said under the duress of torture needs to be completely disregarded. It’s just as offensive that people are doing this to McCain as it was when Rove et al did it to Kerry.

I don’t know how you can make this comparison. McCain made films under the duress of torture. Kerry lied about his service (the Cambodia thing) accepted at least one Purple Heart he did not deserve (but he used it to be sent home early) and then made his war record a centerpiece of his campaign (just look at the convention). He deserved some serious scrutiny and criticism.

LOL! More double standards from the conservatives!

If you can’t even admit that what Rove did with the Swift Boats thing was scummy, then you’re beyond hope and I hope they drag McCain through the shit just to piss you off. Not that it matters - they will anyway.

Now that you get a taste of your own medicine, you cry ‘foul’. Rich!

Why is questoning his record scummy? Kerry was not in Cambodia on Christmas but he lied about it. Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

I have been waiting for years for someone to explain why this subject is off limits.[/quote]

It’s more the lying/distortion that’s scummy. You don’t know he wasn’t in Cambodia, and at the least he was very close to Cambodia. Actual witnesses aren’t sure if they were or not they were so close, and Navy records put him very close, and certainly with the documented coordinates known, he very well could have been in Cambodia, but somehow you know (relying I assume on the SBVT, none whom were present and one even lying about being in Cambodia.) Secondly you distort the Purple Heart, which was received for the shrapnel and an arm wound, and as you know Purple Hearts aren’t given for severity of wound, so “shouldn’t have gotten” is a lie and deliberately slanderous.

TONS of purple hearts were given (including to members of the SBVT) for the same severity of wound, and obviously the Navy demands reassignment on the third injury so why even go there? The reason, you feel the need to belittle this and other men’s service.

38

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.

Nothing scummy about paying people to lie.

John Kerry says he injured himself. I am not sure your point.[/quote]

Yeah and you say “accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten” Friendly fire injuries DO qualify for Purple Hearts and were “gotten” quite frequently in Vietnam. That was the lie you and they told.

39

[quote]100meters wrote:
…

TONS of purple hearts were given (including to members of the SBVT) for the same severity of wound, and obviously the Navy demands reassignment on the third injury so why even go there? The reason, you feel the need to belittle this and other men’s service.

[/quote]

It has nothing to do with the severity of the wound. It is because it was an accident and not due to enemy action that disquallifies him for a PH.

40

[quote]100meters wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Petedacook wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Kerry injured himself destroying rice and accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten and that got him sent home 1/4 of the way through his tour. Why is pointing this out scummy?

Michelle Malkin seems to think he injured himself also.

Nothing scummy about paying people to lie.

John Kerry says he injured himself. I am not sure your point.

Yeah and you say “accepted a Purple Heart he shouldn’t have gotten” Friendly fire injuries DO qualify for Purple Hearts and were “gotten” quite frequently in Vietnam. That was the lie you and they told.[/quote]

That is not a friendly fire injury.