Diabetic Supps Questions...

Diet and Nutrition
1

hello, my question has to do with the wife. she’s diabetic and can’t seem to lose weight. i’ve learned alot about excersize and nutrition and have her mixing up aerobic workouts and strength endurance workouts throughout the week.

her diet is fairly good, but not recorded. i guess i could work on that a bit. she works out very hard and eats a decent diet, but can’t seem to lose weight at all. i wouldn’t say she’s under nourished at all though. i think the weight loss, or lack there of, has to do with her diabetes.

what kinds of supps can she take, like fat burners ???
also, any other advice???

2

[quote]XKawN wrote:
hello, my question has to do with the wife. she’s diabetic and can’t seem to lose weight. i’ve learned alot about excersize and nutrition and have her mixing up aerobic workouts and strength endurance workouts throughout the week.

her diet is fairly good, but not recorded. i guess i could work on that a bit. she works out very hard and eats a decent diet, but can’t seem to lose weight at all. i wouldn’t say she’s under nourished at all though. i think the weight loss, or lack there of, has to do with her diabetes.

what kinds of supps can she take, like fat burners ???
also, any other advice???[/quote]

Type 1 or 2? Stats? (age, height, weight) Define “fairly good” diet and works out “very hard”. How long for each. Specifics.

For the sake of argument supplements or the lack thereof aren’t the deal breaker here. Need more info.

Myself and a few other guys here have experience with handling poor glucose control. In my case type 2.

3

Tirib is right; we need more info. That way we can ensure that any information can be tailored directly to the person.

4

right on, thanks guys. heres a bit more.

5’4"
178lbs
35 years old
type 2, no meds, controlled by diet and excersize.
blood sugar level stays about 90 to 110 pretty consistantly.

as far as diet she’s not consistant and she doesn’t keep a journal cuz she does pretty well, but heres an attempt. i eat pretty well so when i cook or eat she’s there and doing the same so that’s how i can have a feel for what. oh, and here hours are different than some. up till’ 3am sleeps till’ 10 or 11am.

10am. 3 omega 3 eggs with alot of spinach, mushrooms and garlic, 2 pieces of multi grain toast, a cup of coffee.

1pm. bannana, sandwhich with multi grain bread, lean ham, spinach and mustard.

6pm. 5oz of meat, vegetables, a little rice.

i know she should eat more often, but she says that fills her up…

workout is anytime between noon and 4pm.

monday and thursday… a few brisk miles on the treadmill plus strength endurance. latt bar, bench press (barbell) + (dumbell), butterflies (dumbell).

tuesday and friday… a few brisk miles on treadmill. leg excersizes with leg weights.

wedensday and saturday… a few brisk miles on treadmill, core work.

workouts are between an hour to an hour and a half. good pace and no slaking off. she’s not losing weight at all. even if this isn’t a top notch diet and excersize it still seems like there should be progress. frustrating, lol…

thanks folks…

5

What I meant was how long has she been doing this? I think Dave will agree that in any case imho making supplements the centerpiece of your plan isn’t the answer. Some intelligent supplementation may be helpful, but step one is learning why she isn’t progressing.

Be grateful that her glucose is good, but in that same light I doubt this is the cause either. In fact hers is perfect. So how long has she has been doing this and do you mean literally NO loss at all. Also how great a change is this diet and activity level from before?

You are right on about eating more often and at first glance it doesn’t look like either enough or often enough. The addition of essential fats is a must. Fish like salmon, fish oils, flax, nuts, especially walnuts etc.

Some green tea a couple times a day can have a good effect as well. Most of all I think she needs to get much more structured in both workouts and diet at least for the time being. Meals more often at the same times every day and workouts at the same times as well.

You mentioned a lack of consistency which is the death knell for any fitness program.

Is she training at a gym? It sounds like the house so what do you have as far as equipment?

I don’t know you folks at all so don’t take this the wrong way, but are you sure you know everything she’s eating? You could beat yourself to death with all this and if she’s slipping some bons bons in without your knowledge it could go for naught. Then again that would likely show up in her blood sugar.

On that note how does the type 2 diabetes fit in here actually? I’ve never heard of anyone who’s substantially overweight like that and brings their glucose in that tight without ever losing an excess pound. Not saying it can’t happen, but very unusual. How high was her blood sugar before?

6

XKawN, you’re touching on a subject near and dear to my heart. There are some supps out there that have positive effects on blood sugar, insulin sensitivity and weight loss. But the thing that will give your wife the biggest bang for the buck is dialing in her diet.

You’ve been helping her, but your wife needs to take charge of her diet. Have her go to www.f-heit.com and read everything on the site. It will take her awhile. (grin) Let her decide if she wants to make changes to her diet and what changes she wants to make and just how much she wants to dial in her diet and record and track what she’s eating.

I’ve been working with a neighbor of mine who’s diabetic. She was on 20 units of insulin twice a day, but she had huge blood sugar swings. I told her that if she was willing to make some changes, I thought we could improve things for her dramatically. In Lydia’s case, blood sugar would drop so low that she’d almost pass out.

I started working with her. She dropped her insulin from 20 units x 2 to 17 and then 15, 12 and then 10. I kept working with her, making changes to her diet, tweaking and adjusting and looking at her blood sugar numbers upon rising and 2 hours after a meal. We got her down to 7 and 5. Finally, her doctor switched her over to Glucophage. She had been on insulin for over 20 years. In the process of working with her, she’s went from 180 pounds to 140 pounds. 130 pounds is her goal weight.

And it’s not just the weight she’s lost and the fact that we got her off insulin. Her doctor wanted to know what the heck she’s doing because her cholesterol profile improved, triglycerides came in normal, hb1c has dropped every 3 months. You name it, and she’s within normal parameters (or headed that way!)

A year ago this time Lydia was in the hospital with congestive heart failure. Today she’s lost weight and feels good. And she did it without taking one supplement! Lydia at 65 lives on Social Security and can’t afford supps. She did it all with food and walking. She did it with the information provided on T-Nation and F-Heit.

7

she started working out (walking vigerously) in 99’. eating habits and diet were about as bad as it can possibly be. beginning of 2004’ she got pregnant so the diet cleaned up and started thinking more health conciously. at the point of conception she weighed 193. lost weight during pregnancy to 185. working out hard and eating decently she got as low as 171. within the past few months she actually gained 7 pounds.

it’s been about 3 weeks since i’ve had her incorperate weight training into her program because she wasn’t losing anymore and she has now gained weight. she’s very big breasted so running is kind of out of the question, but she walks very vigerously.

as far as equipment. she uses free weights (olympic bench) and treadmill. some dumbells and ankle weights. i have other equipment for boxing, but that’s mine and she won’t use, top heavy. she actually tries so hard that the doctors are amazed by how she can control her diabetes.

personally, i have the mindset that you can pretty much cure or fix anything with the right mindset and hard work so i push that on her. when she was diagnosed she was at 400 and before she got pregnant with the help of meds she maintained in the high 100’s…180/190.

just read your post tampa as i’m writing this, lol. “WOW”. congrats on that. good job. very inspiring. thank you…

8

Lydia was highly motivated, and her compliance (to the degree she understood things) was excellent. The credit really goes to her.

Cardio is great for the heart and cardiovascular system. It even burns a few calories, but most of a person’s body composition results come from dialing in their diet. Your wife doesn’t have to trun to lose weight or improve her level of cardiovascular fitness.

It’s possible to eat healthy, but still eat in excess of what our body requires to maintain its weight. Since we know she’s a bit insulin resistant, my recommendations would be that she cut out the bread, rice, pasta, and other starchy carbs. Carbs should come from unlimited fibrous green veggies, 1 serving of beans (1/2 cup per day) and 3 servings of fruit (1 serving = 80-100 calories). If you want to give her a cookie-cutter program, write down all her favorite protein sources and figure out how many ounces she needs to eat to hit her per-meal protein requirements.

Her per-meal protein requirements at her current weight are 35g per meal, assuming 5 meals. Her good fat requirements are 71g per day. She should get 1.5 tablespoons of olive oil at one P+F meal and 1.5 tablespoons of flaxseed oil at the second P+F meal. The rest of the fat should come from the lean cuts of meat she eats, dairy, eggs, etc. … not exceeding 71g per day, though. (grin)

Have her check out the F-Heit Forum, though. She needs the emotional support. There’s no worse feeling in the world than to be exercising and eating healthy and denying yourself the things you’d really like to have and not be losing weight!

9

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
XKawN, you’re touching on a subject near and dear to my heart. There are some supps out there that have positive effects on blood sugar, insulin sensitivity and weight loss. But the thing that will give your wife the biggest bang for the buck is dialing in her diet.

You’ve been helping her, but your wife needs to take charge of her diet. Have her go to www.f-heit.com and read everything on the site. It will take her awhile. (grin) Let her decide if she wants to make changes to her diet and what changes she wants to make and just how much she wants to dial in her diet and record and track what she’s eating.

I’ve been working with a neighbor of mine who’s diabetic. She was on 20 units of insulin twice a day, but she had huge blood sugar swings. I told her that if she was willing to make some changes, I thought we could improve things for her dramatically. In Lydia’s case, blood sugar would drop so low that she’d almost pass out.

I started working with her. She dropped her insulin from 20 units x 2 to 17 and then 15, 12 and then 10. I kept working with her, making changes to her diet, tweaking and adjusting and looking at her blood sugar numbers upon rising and 2 hours after a meal. We got her down to 7 and 5. Finally, her doctor switched her over to Glucophage. She had been on insulin for over 20 years. In the process of working with her, she’s went from 180 pounds to 140 pounds. 130 pounds is her goal weight.

And it’s not just the weight she’s lost and the fact that we got her off insulin. Her doctor wanted to know what the heck she’s doing because her cholesterol profile improved, triglycerides came in normal, hb1c has dropped every 3 months. You name it, and she’s within normal parameters (or headed that way!)

A year ago this time Lydia was in the hospital with congestive heart failure. Today she’s lost weight and feels good. And she did it without taking one supplement! Lydia at 65 lives on Social Security and can’t afford supps. She did it all with food and walking. She did it with the information provided on T-Nation and F-Heit.

[/quote]

I was totally waiting for you to tell us we could have it for all for just two easy payments of only $19.95…

Kidding.

To the OP-

What does any of this have to do with being diabetic? It almost sounds like she just had a bad case of gestational diabetes and it’s gone now.

Let’s face it- there are only two reasons why she would gain weight. (Only two). She’s eating more than she burns or she’s pregnant again. (Luckily for men we only have the one reason). So I echo Tirib in that you have absolutely no idea what and how much she eats every day. You certainly can’t take her word for it, as most people who are overweight don’t even realize how much they eat.

As for her glucose readings- are you there to witness all of them or are you just looking at her log? I find it extremely hard to believe that someone that overweight would have such good control, especially considering the long breaks between meals, and also have a doctor who would be willing to not put them on meds. Was she ever on any medications? What was her last A1C? How often does she check her glucose levels?

I don’t mean to be harsh, but I’m not sure you have a grip on the reality of your situation.

If I’m way off base above, then my suggestion echoes Tony Robbins’- low carb is the way to go for a diabetic. And all carbs should come from fruit and veggies. No rice, no pasta, no bread, no potatoes, etc.

If she doesn’t lose weight with that then she is pregnant.

10

thanks terry and eergms. i’m gonna start making her keep a journal again. she used to keep one for the doctors because they couldn’t understand why she was having such good numbers and not losing weight also considering how much she worked out.

as far as gestational diabetes, i’m not sure what that is, but she had bad numbers for years. not like she had it for a week and it was gone. she has been on a few different types of pills for it and while she was pregnat she was injecting insulin.

as far as the point of me not knowing what she was eating and that she could’ve been lying or whatever this is true. i wouldn’t know everything. she used to take a1c’s regularly. i’ve been in the doctors office when they’ve said she was doing everything right. i’ve heard them say they’ve never seen anyone so dedicated. that’s all i know for sure. that and how hard she works out.

when i do see her eat she eats alot of veggies and a balanced meal otherwise. she was working out 2 times a day until i changed that for more of an even schedule of aerobic, plyos and strength endurance weight training. then i had her back off from the twice a day for recovery purposes.

so in short, from what the doctors say, the wife says and what i DO see she does such a good job that she doesn’t have to take meds anymore, but she just can’t lose weight. i mean, she has lost some weight…from 197 to 185 while pregnat and another 7 pounds, down to 178, but we’re talking in years though…

i’m gonna start trying to tweak her diet some. pre cooked and plan meals for some consistancy and so i can be in more control. i agree terry, she needs to be in more control for herself, but i want to see if we can’t get this kick started.

thanks for the help, again folks. i really appreciate it…

11

I am no doctor, but that little voice down inside is whispering that there may be something more serious going on here. DO NOT be alarmed on my word as this is only a hunch from someone entirely unqualified to make any kind of diagnosis and even if I were an internet forum wouldn’t be the place to do it.

Something just doesn’t seem to add up in all this. If she were my wife and assuming everything you say is accurate I would have her get some more thorough testing. Eengrms76 knows me well enough to know that I’m not one to sprint to the doctors office, but her dietary intake and activity level don’t seem to add up to her not at least drifting downward in weight to some measurable degree.

Also her glucose control in light of everything you’ve said is damn near miraculous. I don’t know offhand how that could be bad, but it is odd, so to speak.

I’m on board with the low carb thing as well.

12

thank you tirib. maybe it could be a matter of tweaking the diet here and there so i’ll try that first. she’s been dealing with it for years so i don’t think she’s in any immediate danger. the reason i thought it was the diabetes is because i wouldn’t know any better.

it’s hard to get good info on diabetes or find 2 poeples that agree about this or that. and do to the fact that we didn’t think it was her diet or excersize. she eats well balanced so maybe it’s time to shift balance to something such as no simple carbs or something.

i’m gonna learn how to be more specific on counting calories from like fats and protien and such so we can get very specific on her diet.

any recommendations on reading to learn how to count nutritional calories???

thanks again…

13

[quote]eengrms76 wrote:
I was totally waiting for you to tell us we could have it for all for just two easy payments of only $19.95…
[/quote]
(grin)

Whether she has diabetes or not, eengrms76, she’s very likely insulin resistant. The type, timing and amount of carbs taken in when you’re insulin resistant are critical to your success, even for a given number of calories.

Other complicating issues are past dieting practices. Excessive amounts of cardio or too-high caloric deficits cause a person’s metabolism to drop. They run colder, slower and “more efficiently.”

There can be hormonal influences at play, too. The issues there are different for women than men, even at a young 35 years of age.

And then if that’s not enough, brain chemistry can work against weight loss, too. I’ve had women whose jaws dropped when I asked them if along with craving carbs and sweets and chocolate if they also had problem with depression and trouble sleeping. They asked how I knew.

I guess what I’m saying with all of this, eengrms76, is that there are a lot of factors at play and a lot of things that need to be looked at and “tweaked.” It’s not always entirely and exclusively that someone is just eating too much or eating “bad” things.

XKawN, have your wife read http://www.f-heit.com/readTopic.do?id=503414

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[quote]XKawN wrote:
any recommendations on reading to learn how to count nutritional calories???
[/quote]
If your wife is moving in the direction of putting more precision and structure into how she eats, get a digital postal scale that weighs in tenths of one ounce and grams. They have inexpensive digital postal scales at Office Depot and Staples. Do an internet search on SP5 scale to see what I’m talking about.

From there, if she’d like to start tracking what she’s eating, www.fitday.com will allow you to keep an online food log and look up portion sizes.

That said, I hate to see people reducing and reducing and reducing their caloric intake and increasing and increasing and increasing energy expenditure. You do want to weigh and measure protein and fat. The trick there is to get all of what you need and no more. The numbers, too, are the same bulking and cutting, male or female. What is going to give your wife the results she’s wanting is smart (not excessive) resistance training and managing the type, timing and amount of carbs she takes in.

15

Wow great advice here and I wont reall add anything further just kind of put in my second on a few things.

#1 She has to really really want this for her it dont matter how much you want her to at right better train etc if her head isnt in it and she doesnt get joy out of this quest its all for not. This needs to be Hard yes in ways but you have to keep an element of fun, enjoyment and competition in it.

#2 I agree with heck I dont remeber who it was Trib… I think that there may be more going on here deeper issues. if she has not had a FULL!!! blood profile/panel don on any and everything GET IT!! This will allow you to better treat the PROBLEM and not the Symptoms like to many in the health field like to do.

I commend you for wanting to help her so much and the work your putting in I hope for yor and her sake shes half as interested in this and you will succeed. Nail a solid resistance training plan with cardio as needed and Make it FUN, nail that diet in manageable steps and make the diet enjoyable eating good doesnt mean bland etc, set BIG lofty goals as well as little stepping stone ones along the way foptr EVERYTHING training, diet, life in general, give your selves rewards

again good work and I hope the best for you and her

Phill

16

[quote]XKawN wrote:
.

i’m gonna learn how to be more specific on counting calories from like fats and protien and such so we can get very specific on her diet.

any recommendations on reading to learn how to count nutritional calories???

thanks again…[/quote]

Oh forgot onm this above I agree with Terry etc it may seem a bit crazy at first but the best approach is to get VERY anal about weighing etc trick again enjoying it LOL. But doing that going into the minutia in a situation like this In no time you will find just from repetition you will have things memorized macros and breakdown of NUMEROUS food etc. I mean I can spout from memeory the general macros of a Plethora of foods just from doing it and can get very close by look at getting a correct protion size etc

In time it will be cake

Phill

17

right on folks. great help. i just signed up for that fitday.com that’s awesome stuff. as for blood test, she does stuff like that all the time. she just did blood work a few days ago. she is motivated. it’s me that barely just got on board about 8 months ago.

the biggest problem i see is that she holds alot of stress. women…what can i say, lol. i’m looking at scales right now and am reading on weighing foods and the nutritional values. we’re gonna get real strict, now. i appreciate you folks helping us out. great info…thanks.

18

[quote]XKawN wrote:
right on folks. great help. i just signed up for that fitday.com that’s awesome stuff. as for blood test, she does stuff like that all the time. she just did blood work a few days ago. she is motivated. it’s me that barely just got on board about 8 months ago.

the biggest problem i see is that she holds alot of stress. women…what can i say, lol. i’m looking at scales right now and am reading on weighing foods and the nutritional values. we’re gonna get real strict, now. i appreciate you folks helping us out. great info…thanks.[/quote]

GOod luck bro keep us informed and DONT fall for buying a scale made for food Like TT said go to office max etc you get scale by the same companies not as flashy looking etc but have the same or more functions for 1/2 the cost or less

Phill

19

[quote]Tampa-Terry wrote:
If your wife is moving in the direction of putting more precision and structure into how she eats, get a digital postal scale that weighs in tenths of one ounce and grams. They have inexpensive digital postal scales at Office Depot and Staples. Do an internet search on SP5 scale to see what I’m talking about.

From there, if she’d like to start tracking what she’s eating, www.fitday.com will allow you to keep an online food log and look up portion sizes.

That said, I hate to see people reducing and reducing and reducing their caloric intake and increasing and increasing and increasing energy expenditure. You do want to weigh and measure protein and fat. The trick there is to get all of what you need and no more. The numbers, too, are the same bulking and cutting, male or female. What is going to give your wife the results she’s wanting is smart (not excessive) resistance training and managing the type, timing and amount of carbs she takes in.

[/quote]

Not to hijack the thread but TT how are you? I haven’t seen you post on here in forever…your posts are always the best, very informative.

20

Thanks, greekdawg! It’s good to be back and posting. Just like the old days, huh? (grin)

the biggest problem i see is that she holds alot of stress. women…what can i say, lol.

We all hold onto (or react to) stress in different ways. If stress (even the self-inflicted kind) is problematic, get your wife to pick up some Rescue Remedy at the health food store and carry it with her. Take it as needed, even as often as every 15 minutes if she’s under major stress. It’s awesome stuff, and she should feel its effects pretty quickly.

I’m really proud of you, XKawN, supporting and actively HELPING your wife in her efforts to improve her health and improve her appearance. I wish you both the best!!! Definitely let us know how it goes or if you have any other questions.