Detroit becomes Largest City in US History to File Bankruptcy

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

It was a Republicans that changed American policy towards steel imports , Check it out , most of these towns and cities experiencing financial difficulties are Democrat because Unions tend to endorse Democrats . That is you Democratic link
[/quote]

Detroit isn’t a steel town, it’s Auto City. You can’t blame Reagan for making it prohibitively expensive to run a business in Detroit. If anything he made it easier to make cars in Detroit. Still defaulted.[/quote]

Yes, it is a steel producing town. Mac steel is one of the largest producers left in the country.

The greatest cause of the cities problems are it’s legacy costs for pensions, the model of which most cities have based their pensions on. Detroit is but the first. Yes they have had a population decline, but underfunded pensions coupled with very low interest are what drove them into the ground.[/quote]

Perhaps, but Detroit is also what essentially amounts to a single industry city. Pittsburgh learned from its first crash–it diversified and tried to make itself an attractive location for businesses to move into. A diverse city has a much bigger buffer when legacy pensions crash economically speaking, and Pittsburgh is one of the ones that learned and applied the lesson.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

It was a Republicans that changed American policy towards steel imports , Check it out , most of these towns and cities experiencing financial difficulties are Democrat because Unions tend to endorse Democrats . That is you Democratic link
[/quote]

Detroit isn’t a steel town, it’s Auto City. You can’t blame Reagan for making it prohibitively expensive to run a business in Detroit. If anything he made it easier to make cars in Detroit. Still defaulted.[/quote]

Yes, it is a steel producing town. Mac steel is one of the largest producers left in the country.

The greatest cause of the cities problems are it’s legacy costs for pensions, the model of which most cities have based their pensions on. Detroit is but the first. Yes they have had a population decline, but underfunded pensions coupled with very low interest are what drove them into the ground.[/quote]

Never knew you felt this way.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Corporations are incredibly greedy. And if they can pocket more money by moving their plant overseas their attitude is fuck the middle-class Americans. Wow how patriotic! They do not move plants overseas in order to keep the heartbeat of the business alive. They do it to line the pockets of the major share holdders and CEO’s fuck their workers, they are expendable.
[/quote]

Class warfare, how communist of you.[/quote]

Yes, fuck the american middle class when they think they deserve outlandish retirement, making 20+ dollars an hour to pull a lever or watch parts go by on a conveyor belt, and for the company to keep making profits. It is just business. Has nothing to do with being patriotic or not. [/quote]

Not sure if cereal. [/quote]

There is a group in MS trying to push for minimum wage to be raised to 15$ an hour. Up from 7.25.
[/quote]

Yeah, I’m interested if they can get it done…then I’m going to be interested in seeing how the 50% of workers that get let go are going to feel about their buddy getting $15/hr while they get $0/hr. [/quote]
I doubt it will ever pass, but if it does. I know a lot of small business will be closing or firing a large part of their staff. As will larger businesses.
[/quote]

I’m assuming they are basing their demands off of NC where they are having an energy boom and are paying their burger flippers $15/hr?[/quote]

The reasoning I heard is 15 dollars in an hour is “living wage”. I was standing at line at the bank and a woman in front of me was making comments that 12.50 an hour doesn’t cut it. “They gonna have to do something because I can’t make it on 12.50 an hour.” She went on to say she had 5 kids and none of her babies’ daddies helping her. Well no shit dumbass you can’t make it with 5 kids, no father around, and making 12.50. Close your fucking legs. I don’t get where people expect everything to be changed for them and to meet their needs. Take responsibility for your actions or lack there of.[/quote]

This is the issue.

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[/quote]

No, no, no…Zep doesn’t know whether to scratch his watch or wind his butt.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[/quote]

My opinion that very form of government if pure is good , the problem lays in corruption . Marxism may not have worked at a form of Government but it is a valid critique of OUR CORRUPT form of Capitalism

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Richard Wolff on the BK of Detroit.

http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/25/richard_wolff_detroit_a_spectacular_failure[/quote]

He forgot to mention the increased overhead caused by unions, public workers, &c.

Makes it sound like Detroit is the bastion of capitalism and republicanism. No, the people voted themselves into default through socialism. [/quote]

Of course blame the republicans and capitalism in a city run by democrats and socialism! GENIUS.[/quote]

LOL

The dude who wrote that is an admitted Marxist…

http://rdwolff.com/content/about

Stop wasting your time. We have a quite a bit of evidence that Marxism doesn’t work, in fact it does the opposite of work, literally… So don’t even bother. You are arguing with someone that can’t even see the difference between Cuba and say the US…

[/quote]

Can you tell me who capitalism is working for?

cap·i·tal·ism
/ˈkapətlˌizəm/
Noun
An economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

I like this definition . Notice it does not say it is a form of Government. The Americans have let the horse get ahead of the cart and that is part of the economic woes we are facing

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
cap�·i�·tal�·ism
/ˈkapətlˌizəm/
Noun
An economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit.

I like this definition . Notice it does not say it is a form of Government. The Americans have let the horse get ahead of the cart and that is part of the economic woes we are facing[/quote]

So you are for Capitalism? You argue for bigger government and stronger Unions. Both of those are anti-Capitalism.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:
Corporations are incredibly greedy. And if they can pocket more money by moving their plant overseas their attitude is fuck the middle-class Americans. Wow how patriotic! They do not move plants overseas in order to keep the heartbeat of the business alive. They do it to line the pockets of the major share holdders and CEO’s fuck their workers, they are expendable.
[/quote]

Class warfare, how communist of you.[/quote]

Yes, fuck the american middle class when they think they deserve outlandish retirement, making 20+ dollars an hour to pull a lever or watch parts go by on a conveyor belt, and for the company to keep making profits. It is just business. Has nothing to do with being patriotic or not. [/quote]

Not sure if cereal. [/quote]

There is a group in MS trying to push for minimum wage to be raised to 15$ an hour. Up from 7.25.
[/quote]

Yeah, I’m interested if they can get it done…then I’m going to be interested in seeing how the 50% of workers that get let go are going to feel about their buddy getting $15/hr while they get $0/hr. [/quote]
I doubt it will ever pass, but if it does. I know a lot of small business will be closing or firing a large part of their staff. As will larger businesses.
[/quote]

I’m assuming they are basing their demands off of NC where they are having an energy boom and are paying their burger flippers $15/hr?[/quote]

The reasoning I heard is 15 dollars in an hour is “living wage”. I was standing at line at the bank and a woman in front of me was making comments that 12.50 an hour doesn’t cut it. “They gonna have to do something because I can’t make it on 12.50 an hour.” She went on to say she had 5 kids and none of her babies’ daddies helping her. Well no shit dumbass you can’t make it with 5 kids, no father around, and making 12.50. Close your fucking legs. I don’t get where people expect everything to be changed for them and to meet their needs. Take responsibility for your actions or lack there of.[/quote]

This is the issue.

What is a living wage? Able to put food on the table, put a roof over your head, and clothes on your back. Minimum wage does do that. The issue is people want more. They want to live on more than they make. They dont just want food they want steak and lobster. They dont just want a roof over their head, they want a mansion. They dont want just clothes, they want Jordans, Ralph Lauren shirts, and expensive jeans. Minimum wage gives you a basic living, not a life of luxury. It is jealousy or some call it coveting. They want to take from the rich so they can feel more rich themselves.
[/quote]

Exactly, people with no real skills that would justify them earning a wage greater than “just getting by” believe that they are entitled to the same things that those that actually have set themselves apart have and more. A first year teacher in our district makes 32,100 in our district.

A 32yo single mother with 5 children and no job because of her “asthma, IBS, and migraines” being disabling makes $50,000 a year in assistance.

I was talking to the local seafood guy here the other day (I can only afford to buy from there once ever month or two at the most) told me that he has several customers that come in 2 to 3 times a week with big orders each time using EBT cards to pay. How in the hell is someone receiving that much in assistance that they can do that?

Delphi/Packard used to have a plant here. They were trying to renegotiate down to $22/hr starting wage because the plant was about to go under, local reps were going to sign, national level union said no, even though they knew that the plant would leave if they didn’t agree. Men around here just wanted to work. National level would never agree and the plant left. That’s a whole lot of jobs lost that the unions caused. Tell me again how unions create jobs??

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Can you tell me who capitalism is working for?
[/quote]

hmmm. Let me see…

Well, I just checked my nice new shoes, which are on nice socks that have no holes. My pants are nice and warm, shirt too. I have a nice hair cut I choose myself, and spectacles that work pretty well. hmmm, no evidence that capitalism isn’t working there.

Let me check facebook… Nope no evidence of its failure there.

Let me check my car? Nope

How about my mp3 player, camera, GPS and phone all wrapped in one and more, nope, not in there.

Hmmm, all things the “poor” in this country have…

Shall we look at the “poor” in india, china, North Korea or Cuba?

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

My opinion that very form of government if pure is good[/quote]

Then you are a statist. Enjoy that.

Keep your finger’s crossed you are one of the few the ruling elite decide if fit to live.

hmmmm. Throughout the course of human history, how many men haven’t eventually been corrupted?

Pretty much zero.

Government is made up of men. And they have access to the people’s wealth… What do you think is going to happen?

[quote]Marxism may not have worked at a form of Government but it is a valid critique of OUR CORRUPT form of Capitalism
[/quote]

What is corrupt about it? You don’t get paid enough?

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Can you tell me who capitalism is working for?
[/quote]

Texas?
NYC?
Boston?

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

Can you tell me who capitalism is working for?
[/quote]

These guys, and anyone who has a job in the movie industry down to the pimply face dude who rips your ticket.

Socialism and Marxism could in theory work if all humans were benevolent and worked hard for the betterment of everyone around them. Yeah I don’t see that happening anytime soon/ ever.

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Socialism and Marxism could in theory work if all humans were benevolent and worked hard for the betterment of everyone around them. Yeah I don’t see that happening anytime soon/ ever.[/quote]

And if that were the case, no one would have any complaints about capitalism either…

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Socialism and Marxism could in theory work if all humans were benevolent and worked hard for the betterment of everyone around them. Yeah I don’t see that happening anytime soon/ ever.[/quote]

And if that were the case, no one would have any complaints about capitalism either…

[/quote]

Well or really anything for that matter… lol

I really don’t like lazy people. If it were up to me, they’d be put out of their misery. Good thing I’m not in dictatorial control. Might be good for the country and encourage people to fix themselves though.

I’d also exact the death penatly on all harsh crimes, and more severe penalties for lesser crimes. Singapore has a pretty harsh set of rules and punishments and they have a pretty solid crime rate from my understanding. Lashings can’t be fun. The US is way to PC and gentle, I think we need to go the Spartan route (minus the a few aspects).

[quote]Bauber wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Bauber wrote:
Socialism and Marxism could in theory work if all humans were benevolent and worked hard for the betterment of everyone around them. Yeah I don’t see that happening anytime soon/ ever.[/quote]

And if that were the case, no one would have any complaints about capitalism either…

[/quote]

Well or really anything for that matter… lol[/quote]

Right. That is why I can only laugh when people actually promote Marxism or any of the lot of government structure that isn’t liberty first. They think that if you change the “group of people in charge” the outcome will ultimately be different. It won’t.

It is still just a group of people with the same faults and imperfections as any other group of people.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

What is corrupt about it? You don’t get paid enough?[/quote]

They are buying our elections