Democrats and Patriotism

A great op-ed in todays WSJ

The Democrats’ Patriotism Problem

By JAMES TARANTO
August 30, 2004; Page A13

NEW YORK – President Bush may or may not get a “bounce” out of his convention here this week, but one suspects John Kerry is grateful for a respite after weeks of pounding by Vietnam veterans angry over his past antiwar activities and his present war-hero braggadocio. Before we turn our sights to the festivities at Madison Square Garden, it’s worth pausing to consider how the Democrats ended up in this mess. Why did they nominate a candidate whose almost obsessive invocation of Vietnam made it all but inevitable that this decades-old war would become a central issue in the campaign?

The answer, simply put, is that the Democratic Party has a problem with patriotism, a problem that Mr. Kerry’s status as a decorated Vietnam veteran was supposed to obviate.

To say that the Democrats have a problem with patriotism is not to say that they are unpatriotic. But they are awfully defensive about their patriotism. “Of course the vice president is questioning my patriotism,” Michael Dukakis fumed during a 1988 presidential debate. “And I resent it.” After Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia lost his 2002 re-election bid, it became part of Democratic (and journalistic) folklore that he owed his ouster to GOP attacks on his patriotism. And last month in Boston, Mr. Kerry declared: “We have an important message for those who question the patriotism of Americans who offer a better direction for our country. . . . We are here to affirm that when Americans stand up and speak their minds and say America can do better, that is not a challenge to patriotism; it is the heart and soul of patriotism.”

In fact, these men had been criticized by their GOP opponents not over patriotism but over policy: Gov. Dukakis’s veto of a Pledge of Allegiance bill, Sen. Cleland’s vote against creating the Homeland Security Department over the absence of union privileges for workers in the new agency, and Sen. Kerry’s 19-year record on defense, especially his vote last year against funding the military and reconstruction efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Surely it is fair for any politician to take issue with his opponent’s official acts. And if those acts were motivated by something other than antipathy toward America – as any fair-minded observer must presume they were – they could have been defended on their merits. Instead, Democrats themselves raised the issue of patriotism by defensively denying that they lacked it. A cardinal rule of political communication is never to repeat an accusation in the course of denying it (“I am not a crook”). These candidates “repeated” a charge no one had even made.

Contrast this with the way Republicans responded during the primary season when Democrats did question their patriotism. “I’m tired of Karl Rove and Dick Cheney and a bunch of people who went out of their way to avoid their chance to serve [in the military] when they had the chance,” Mr. Kerry declared in April. Earlier, Wesley Clark refused to renounce a supporter’s claim that Mr. Bush was a “deserter.” And Howard Dean flatly stated: “John Ashcroft is not a patriot.”

Republicans didn’t care – and why should they? No one seriously believes Messrs. Ashcroft, Bush, Cheney and Rove are unpatriotic. When Messrs. Clark, Dean and Kerry question their opponents’ patriotism, it has some mild shock value but carries no real sting, like a child trying out a naughty word he’s just learned.

So why do Democrats feel so vulnerable on the issue of patriotism? This question takes us back to the 1960s and, yes, Vietnam. That war, which a Democratic president escalated, split the party, costing it the presidency in 1968. By 1972 the countercultural left was firmly established as a part of the Democratic coalition – and it remains so. A significant and vocal minority of the party, that is, believes that America is imperialistic, racist, militaristic, oppressive, etc. These views aren’t necessarily unpatriotic; it is possible to love one’s country and also be a harsh critic of it. But if dissent can be patriotic, assent is far less complicatedly so.

That’s especially true during wartime, when domestic disunity can aid the enemy. Several men who were prisoners of war in Vietnam have said their communist captors used tapes and transcripts of Mr. Kerry’s antiwar testimony in an effort to demoralize them during interrogation sessions. These days, overseas opponents of America’s war effort cite the agitprop movie “Fahrenheit 9/11” as if it were authoritative – and the Democrats treated the maker of that film as a hero at their convention, where he was an honored guest of Jimmy Carter.

After the Sept. 11 attacks, it seemed possible that the antiwar counterculture was a thing of the past. But old habits die hard, and for the most part the Democratic left soon returned to its Sept. 10 mindset. Democrats nominated John Kerry, respected on the left for his antiwar agitation, on the theory that his war-hero pose would establish his patriotism and be sufficient to compensate for his lack of a muscular foreign policy.

Instead it has raised questions about his character. One veteran quoted in “Unfit for Command” puts the matter pungently: “In 1971-72, for almost 18 months, he stood before the television audiences and claimed that the 500,000 men and women in Vietnam, and in combat, were all villains – there were no heroes. In 2004, one hero from the Vietnam War has appeared, running for president of the United States and commander in chief. It just galls one to think about it.”

The Democrats’ problem goes deeper than their flawed nominee. Just as in 1968, they are a party divided on questions of war and peace. This didn’t matter during the seemingly placid 1990s, but today it puts them at a severe disadvantage. It’s difficult to see how they can overcome it.

It should be clear by now, though, that whining about imagined attacks on patriotism is not a winning approach. If it were, Michael Dukakis would be a former president and Max Cleland would not be a former senator.

Mr. Taranto is editor of OpinionJournal.com and co-editor of “Presidential Leadership: Rating the Best and the Worst in the White House” (Wall Street Journal Books, 2004).

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Taranto relative to his charge that the democrats are lacking patriotism.

With the exception of the Moore film, which was a libellous piece of trash, I don’t find questioning the war effort to be unpatriotic. What if we were headed in the wrong direction? (we are not) Would it be unpatriotic to attempt to put a halt to it?

It’s not the questioning of the war, or why we are in Iraq. It is how you go about doing it. Moore chose to lie about our President. That was unpatriotic! The fact that the democrats gave him a prime seat at their convention did not help their crdibility relative to patriotism. However, it does not taint the entire party in my eyes, only the some of the party leaders.

Senator Kerry chooses to question President Bush’s methodology regarding the war. That is legitimate and part of democracy. While I think Sen. Kerry is quite wrong in his beliefs he is a patriot nonetheless!

I think it was Al Franken who put it best when he said something to the effect that both conservatives and liberals love their country, but in very different ways. Many conservatives love their country the way a four-year-old loves his mommy. “Mommy is perfect. Mommy can do no wrong.”

Liberals tend to have a more mature love of country. “Yeah, I love my country, but she can be a bitch sometimes.”

Conservatives don’t want to hear that. “See, you don’t love Mommy as much as I do.”

I am generalizing, of course. There are many conservatives (Pat Buchanan comes to mind) who are capable of expressing love of country without abandoning their critical faculties. However, this difference in approach is what leads to much of the divisiveness that currently exists in our political debate. It is difficult to address issues when people are talking on totally different planes. In this case, it has led to one side relying overly much on emotional arguments and the other side reacting defensively.

ZEB wrote:
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Taranto relative to his charge that the democrats are lacking patriotism.

With the exception of the Moore film, which was a libellous piece of trash, I don’t find questioning the war effort to be unpatriotic. What if we were headed in the wrong direction? (we are not) Would it be unpatriotic to attempt to put a halt to it?

Libellous, except for the fact that there are piles of citations and facts supporting it. Video of both Bush’s with the Saudis. Check out Moore’s site, there is a line by line factual back up of the movie.

Coach,

The whole movie was not about bush and his relation to the Saudi’s It had many untrue things in it. For instance they asked a senator if his son was in the military, and he laughed and said no. He said no because he doesn’t have any children.

Moore may have said some true things, the problem is I have to go back and find out what is true, and what he has put a slant on to make his point.

http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com

coach,

smarten up!!! or look through the back logs of this very forum for the multitude of errris in MM’s film. Its a a piece of trash and there are too many errors to list here. Go back and look at those threads and you will see oodles of links pointing out the inaccuracies…the most compehensive of which is 60 some pages long and growing, and these charges come from all walks of life and sides of the political spectrum. If you honestly believe what you have just written about this modern day Riefenstahl then america is doomed, and we get what we deserve from our politians

[quote]biltritewave wrote:
coach,

smarten up!!! or look through the back logs of this very forum for the multitude of errris in MM’s film. Its a a piece of trash and there are too many errors to list here. Go back and look at those threads and you will see oodles of links pointing out the inaccuracies…the most compehensive of which is 60 some pages long and growing, and these charges come from all walks of life and sides of the political spectrum. If you honestly believe what you have just written about this modern day Riefenstahl then america is doomed, and we get what we deserve from our politians[/quote]

Smarten up? Listen my friend, with all due respect to all involved in these froums, I really doubt that a Bodybuilding website is the best place to come for top notch Poilitical information. Not sure though, because when I was getting my degree in Pol. Sci., I was never required to read any bodybuilding sites…but then again maybe my college was just fucked up.

And as far as smarten up, please do not try to even hold a candle to me. The thing is, I went and personally checked out as much of Moore’s claims as I possibly could. Again, doing the search myself, not relying on people on a bodybuilding board. And, if you want to believe everything the other side says, then, perhaps it is you that is doomed?
Neither side has all the answers nor do they always tell the truth. You should consider reading some books or taking a class, rather than relying on a bodybuilding site.

Thanks

hahah. this is comical. You got a political science degree. Wow. Me too. Congrats on that. Half the world has one. If you honestly believe your prior statements about the validity of Michael Moores claims than I hope to god my diploma is not comparable to yours because the education you received makes yours equivalent to a piece of toilet paper, either that or you are too blinkered by your ideaology to be critical of Michael Moore. Not knowing for sure your ideology I wont venture to guess which one it is.

Congrats on that diploma though

thanks

me

Read this. They taught you how to do that as a political science major right?

http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

and this, from liberals no less

Consider yourself educated,

thanks,

me

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I respectfully disagree with Mr. Taranto relative to his charge that the democrats are lacking patriotism.

With the exception of the Moore film, which was a libellous piece of trash, I don’t find questioning the war effort to be unpatriotic. What if we were headed in the wrong direction? (we are not) Would it be unpatriotic to attempt to put a halt to it?

It’s not the questioning of the war, or why we are in Iraq. It is how you go about doing it. Moore chose to lie about our President. That was unpatriotic! The fact that the democrats gave him a prime seat at their convention did not help their crdibility relative to patriotism. However, it does not taint the entire party in my eyes, only the some of the party leaders.

Senator Kerry chooses to question President Bush’s methodology regarding the war. That is legitimate and part of democracy. While I think Sen. Kerry is quite wrong in his beliefs he is a patriot nonetheless!
[/quote]

zeb,

I dont think that the democrats are in reality any less patriotic then republicans are, but I do think that it is an issue usurped by republicans and one that can only be a losing issue for democrats which is what I think is the point of his editorial.

I thiknk Kerry is a Patriot. I think he sacraficed a lot by serving in Vietnam. Lot’s of Democrats and Republicans did. He didn’t sacrafice as much as some, but he did his duty and did it with honor and merit.

I think he had a lot of credibility after serving. I think he generalized the military in front of service and has sought to shrink it ever since.

I think that is why most vets dislike him and will not vote for him. I don’t think it makes him or the demo’s any less patriotic.

Wasn’t the thesis of this article that the Democrats are defensive concerning patriotism? He wasn’t saying they weren’t patriotic – here’s the relevant excerpted paragraph:

[Begin excerpt]To say that the Democrats have a problem with patriotism is not to say that they are unpatriotic. But they are awfully defensive about their patriotism. “Of course the vice president is questioning my patriotism,” Michael Dukakis fumed during a 1988 presidential debate. “And I resent it.” After Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia lost his 2002 re-election bid, it became part of Democratic (and journalistic) folklore that he owed his ouster to GOP attacks on his patriotism. And last month in Boston, Mr. Kerry declared: “We have an important message for those who question the patriotism of Americans who offer a better direction for our country. . . . We are here to affirm that when Americans stand up and speak their minds and say America can do better, that is not a challenge to patriotism; it is the heart and soul of patriotism.”[End excerpt].

Taranto went on to say that while the Republicans weren’t challenging their patriotism - but were criticizing them on defense policy issues - the Democrats were defending their patriotism, and complaining as if they had had their patriotism challenged.

Personal attacks aside, you are seeking political knowledge on a bodybuilding website. And, I would love to see proof of your Degree in Poly Sci.

See, because I disagreed with you, you started right in with the insults. You are a disgrace to the conservates.

This is a very good question to ask the group. And BB once again you hit the nail on th head. It is not to say that the Democrats are unpatroitic. For if we said that, then all the Democrats would be wearing the red star, or the Anarchists symbol on their sleeve. They are as patroitic as you and me. We all sing the Star Spangled Banner. Or wave the American Flag at our homes, etc, very proudly. (Again, except for the Comm, anarchists, and far-leftists out there.)

But where the patriotism does differ is what is more important the mlitary, or our nation’s defenses, security, or the economy domesitc issues? And every President has to make those decions. I remember going back (eeKK!!) to when I was in High School. And you had drilled in you, the Democrats were for the economy. The Republicans are more for defense.Or the Democrats are more peace loving people. Whereas the Republicans are always looking where can I start a fight or a War? And those old cliches just stay with each party. To this very day.

Now John Kerry has the golden opportunity to finally break out of this mold. And show a Democrat can be tough on defense, national security.
Especially what happened on 9/11. But he has not. He has not faced up to his past.And made amends for the past. His War record, his Anti Vietnam Views (his book the New Solider written in 1971, which Kerry is making sure no one sees that book, or he will sue). What he said before COngress in the 1970’s. His Senatorial record. On defense, POW’s, intelligence, the nation’s security. Also him having no convictions. Its liek many say we don’t know who the real John Kerry really is. because he has flip flopped so many times on the issues.

Now for Bush, he is the exact opposite. And where he is vulnerable is the nation’s economy. This is why the Democrats keep pounding this issue of the Bush economy. What he did and did not do. For they know this could be the achillies heel for President Bush. But again, we shall see esp with his acceptance speech come Thursday.

And the Republicans know the achilles heel for John Kerry is the War on Terror, our nations defenses, national security, and intelligence. His record, when he was against the Vietnam War, and as Senator. And him not coming clean.

It takes a man to say I made mistakes or miscalculations. I was wrong. And I apologize for them. ANd for John Kerry
running away constantly from these issues. Or getting others to speak for him, this business of the Democrats and how “unpatriotic” they are, will not go away. And in the end. could even cost John Kerry the Presidency. For the American people, just like John O’Neills book “Unfit for COmmand,” Americans will say John Kerry you are unfit to command. And reelct Bush as President.

Joe

Coach, you are trying to kill their sacred cows… no better way to rile the neanderthals! :wink:

Democrats, have not even figured out the X FACTOR in this presidental election. Polls are too close to call wheather its Bush or Kerry. But Bush is going to win because of the X factor that was not calculated in most of these polls. Lets see if you guys know what it is. Put this way I’ll give you a hint traditionally they are liberal voters but not this time around!

I give you the answer and my theory why BUSH will have 4 more years in office on friday.

I have already gave you a easy hint and I think you guys should figure it out pretty quickly.

[quote]CoachMorris wrote:
Personal attacks aside, you are seeking political knowledge on a bodybuilding website. And, I would love to see proof of your Degree in Poly Sci.

See, because I disagreed with you, you started right in with the insults. You are a disgrace to the conservates.[/quote]

No, not because you disagreed with me. There are plenty of people that I work with every day on Capitol Hill that disagree with me. I insulted you because you tried to refute something I wrote by citing Michael Moore, which if it wasnt so scary, would be comical.

Not to get into a pissing contest, but the Ivy League Political Science degree (along with History and minor in econ, thesis in Political Economy,) from one of the best political science programs in the country is certainly real. Not that it matters much, you have discredited yourself more than I ever could simply by your assertions of Michael Moore.

THanks,

Me

P.S. I am also from NJ originally, what High school do you teach at? or are you a Coach that doesnt have to teach.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Coach, you are trying to kill their sacred cows… no better way to rile the neanderthals! ;)[/quote]

“Rile the neanderthals?” I’m shocked! More name calling by vroom. (haha)