Deep Water Intermediate With LOTS Of Conditioning Program Review

INTRO: HOW WE GOT HERE AND WHERE WE ARE NOW

For those that haven’t been following along, Deep Water Intermediate marks the end of a 26 week long weight gaining training block I’ve been running that started off with 5/3/1 BBB Beefcake, then 5/3/1 Building the Monolith and then Deep Water Beginner. I intend to do a separate write up of the whole process, but in sum, it’s been the most effective training block I’ve ever engaged in. I’ve run Deep Water Beginner and Intermediate before, and at that particular time they were the hardest programs I had ever run in my life, so jumping back into them was a little intimidating. However, I also had prior experience to use to my advantage, and knew what kinds of deviations I was willing to make in order to completely maximize the program to my goals and, in truth, make it even more challenging. All of that will be detailed in the following.

WEEK 3-6 STRATEGY

Whereas beginner is about reducing rest times, intermediate is about reducing total number of sets to get the 100 reps. For weeks 3-4, I stuck with the approach of doing a set of 12 and then 8 sets of 11 to get it done in 9 sets. For weeks 5-6, I swapped to a set of 16 and then 7 sets of 12 until it got to deadlift day. The previous deadlift day was HELLACIOUS, one of the hardest workouts I’d ever done in my life, and then idea of opening up with 16 reps then trying to hold on for 7 more sets just seemed like a poor strategy, so I decided to flip it and do 7 sets of 12, take a LONG rest period (as allotted in the book) and then do everything in my power to hit a set of 16 after that. To include dead stopping and rest pausing: just get those reps in without taking an “official” rest. I ended up using the same approach for power cleans with the barbell (more on that later). Otherwise, I stuck with the traditional 1x16/7x12 after that, because the rest of these weren’t terrible compared to the deads.

NUTRITION

My nutrition was about as dialed in and Deep Water as it could get. I’m not going to do another “day in the life” thing because it was pretty much identical. Big variable is I swapped out walnuts for pecans, as I was starting to develop intolerances to the walnuts. My body seems to do that a lot these days. Otherwise, the most “un Deep Water” thing I’d eat daily was a square of 92-110% dark chocolate, clocking in at about 60 calories, along with a dark chocolate peanut butter cup and a Reese’s min peanut butter lovers cup, both of which clocking in at 70 and 30 calories respectively, and those latter 2 options were only ever eaten while I was at work. I actually WANTED to take in some carby cheat meals before the deadlift days…in theory, but in reality I just didn’t have any appetite for carbs at this point. All I wanted was large quantities of meat. My “cheat” meal was typically wings.

DEVIATIONS AND DIFFERENCES

  • I used intuition to determine training weights on this one, primarily because reverse calculating my 1rm based off the weights I was using for sets of 10 across on beginner was resulting in “fantasy-like” numbers, like a 750lb deadlift. I ended beginner with the following lifts:
    Press-135, Push Press-155, Squat-325, Deadlift-385
    For Intermediate, I used the following weights
    Press-155, Push Press-175, Squat-350, Deadlift-405
    About the only weight I should have pushed a little higher is the squat. Big part of that is honestly just me not being at terms with how good I’ve become at squatting. It’s still very new to me.

  • Once again, I pushed conditioning HARD through this process. Despite the fact that Deep Water in and of itself should be more than enough to put the body into a shocked state of recovery, I had a good thing going and didn’t want to let off. I actually found conditioning to be VERY helpful in recovering FROM Deep Water workouts. I’d try to turn the conditioning workouts into feeder workouts, and get blood flowing to the sore areas to speed up recovery. Something I found particularly effective for squat soreness was thruster WODs. My default was to just to 30 thrusters with 135lbs as fast as possible, similar to the Grace WOD, but I also made use of the Fran WOD, getting 100 thrusters with 95lbs as fast as possible with a 10 KB swing penalty for setting the bar down, etc. Post deadlifts I’d do things like stone shouldering or something clean focused. After pressing I’d do thrusters or the Grace WOD, etc. Whereas the first time I did Deep Water I’d limp for 6 days after squats, soreness would be gone around day 2 with this approach. The thrusters, in particular, are effective, because they FORCE your body to move through a full ROM.

  • With cleans scheduled for every week, I took it upon myself to make 1 workout a log clean and the other a barbell clean. I’d do the log clean on the same week as the 100 squats, as I find the log taxes my lower back and I didn’t want to absolutely obliterate it by doing 100 deadlifts and chasing it with 100 log cleans. I made sure to apply the lessons I learned from clean pulls and cleans to the log and, for once, actually had a pretty snappy log clean.

  • I never followed the prescribed core work. On days that were supposed to be back extensions into sit ups, I’d do reverse hypers into ab wheel. Otherwise, I let my daily work take care of core work.

  • Instead of 5x10 curls, I’d do 1 set of Poundstone curls.

  • Instead of multiple sets of lateral raises, I just did one gigantic dropset.

  • On the bench day, I did incline dumbbell benching, and immediately after the final set I’d jump straight into my first set of dips. After my final set of dips, I’d jump straight into my first set of push ups. On my final set of push-ups, I’d do a big dropset by doing push ups to failure, then using the Reactive slingshot to do another set to failure immediately, then use the Metal Catapult to do one final set to failure. I’d then go straight to a set of 25 band pushdowns.

  • I frequently did band pull aparts between sets of the main work on training days, just because they make my shoulders feel awesome.

  • I used my Juarez Valley front squat workout for about the first half of the program on the “active recovery” day. At the halfway point, I started experimenting with a workout I named “Tower of Babel”, which was similar to JV. I’d start with 1 front squat, do 5 burpees, 2 front squats, etc, typically working my way up to 8 reps, then working back DOWN to the 1 rep. It was awesomely brutal but different than JV. I still chased this workout with a belt squat stripset.

  • Rather than do the technique sets for squats and deads before the main work, I would cut them out of the main workout and then later in the day do a WOD incorporating squats or deads wherein I got 30 total reps. For squats, I took 300lbs (50 less than my work weight) and did 10 reps squats, 10 reps chins, 10 reps dips, 5 squats, 5 chins, 5 dips, 15 squats, 15 chins, 15 dips. For deads, I took 308lbs (97lbs less than workweight) and did a similar workout, this time with reps being 12-9-6-3.

  • I used an axle for all pressing and benching. I used a buffalo bar for all squatting. I used a texas deadlift bar for the majority of my deadlifting (outside of the WOD deadlifts, wherein I used a Rogue echo bar).

  • For deadlifts, I’d pull as many reps as possible touch and go, but eventually had to switch to dead stop in the later sets as fatigue built up. Because, gain, dead stop is EASIER. You get to rest.

  • I cleaned every set for all my pressing: push and strict press.

  • I still kept up my daily work as well. My GHR footplate actually broke off around week 2, so I cut out GHRs and got in 50 KB swings instead, violating the “bodyweight only” aspect of it. Still, worked out to 50 chins, 50 dips, 50 pull aparts, 50 swings, 40 bodyweight reverse hypers, 25 pushdowns and 20 standing ab wheel roll outs

THOUGHTS, EXPERIENCE AND RESULTS

I am, flat out, the strongest I’ve ever been, and at a lower bodyweight than my previous bests. I still haven’t gotten a “true” weigh in, but I clocked in at 189.8 post breakfast midway through the program, whereas the previous time I ran this I was in the low 200s and deadlifting about 40lbs less for the intermediate week, and squatting around 290 or so. A big part of that is how successful this whole gaining cycle has been leading up to this (which I will write about in full later), but once again Deep Water has been a fantastic program for putting something out of my reach and forcing me to do whatever it takes to be able to get to it. I haven’t been this dialed in in a LONG time.

THAT said, this experience was far less “traumatic” than the last time I ran Deep Water Intermediate. Kinda like watching a horror movie for the second time: you already know where all the scary parts are, so it’s hard to have those emotions again. I still walked around feeling beat to hell, but I wasn’t crippled like before. I was excited about crushing the squat days vs dreading them for 13 days, I never needed to lie down on the floor between sets (although the temptation WAS there), I didn’t need to cheat my rest periods, I didn’t need cheat meals, etc. I think this speaks more to just being more experienced as an athlete AND coming into this is SIGNIFICANTLY better shape than before. Conditioning is magic, and by having mine so strong, I actually COULD recover within the rest periods allotted to me vs trying (and failing) to play catch up. In Jon Andersen’s terms, I was thriving, rather than surviving.

I also managed to keep my abs through this process, and not for lack of trying. I’m still eating like it’s my job, but what I DID do different compared to the last time I ran Deep Water is actually emphasis the “organic” portion of the diet. Before I was eating McDonalds cheeseburgers without the bun and other low quality meat sources feeling like that was “meeting intent”, but in truth, nutrition QUALITY matters here. I also got a LOT of fresh veggies from our local farmer’s market AND my own garden, to the point that my meals were so full of veggies and Jon Andersen approved fruits (tomatoes, cucumbers, avocados, etc) that there wasn’t much room for anything else. I haven’t needed to move up a notch on my lifting belt, and I’m still fitting into the same pants I was when I started the whole 26 week mass gaining block. Hey leangainers, I figured out the secret: work INCREDIBLY hard and eat your face off.

Some crappy before and after photos

BEFORE]

AFTER

WHAT’S NEXT?

I’m signed up for a strongman competition at the end of Sep, which, depending on how the world handles the latest outbreak, may happen. In either case, I need a break from gaining weight, so I’ve taken 5/3/1 and mutated it to my needs. Going to be doing 5s pro for main work, widowmakers for supplemental, rotating implements each week, and pressing twice a week while regulating bench only to supplemental and assistance work. Conditioning focus is going to be on bearhug keg carries to prep for a huss stone carry. Assistance stuff is going to be DoggCrapp-esque single set work with lots of intensity modifiers. Basically, I’m going from VERY high volume to very high effort with low volume. Something that Marty Gallagher observed: the body likes balance sometimes by going from 2 different extremes.

16 Likes

Couple of things

1). I am absolutely blown away by the before and after. It’s tough to see it in your log because the pictures are spaced so far apart in time… looking at them makes me say “yeah, pwn is still muscular and lean”. Seeing them side by side, though, shows just how much you’ve gained. It’s insane.

2). Lots of gold nuggets in the tweaks you’ve done to the program. It’s still 100% in tune with the base of the program but you made it fit with your style/lifestyle. I will definitely be combing back through that post and lifting the stuff I like.

3).

This should be front and center when logging in to any lifting site

Awesome write up, and again, it has been incredible to see you navigate through the past 26 week block.

1 Like

As always, your write-up is nearly as impressive as the work. Also, you don’t only still have abs: you still have veins in your abs. Impressive.

A handful of questions for you, if you don’t mind:

  1. You mentioned the extreme changes forcing adaptation. How important do you think that is vs. sticking with what “works”? I find I’ve had an extraordinarily tough time breaking out of my comfort zone this last year-plus in terms of programming.
  2. Do you plan all this out in advance? All your workouts, to include conditioning, are very detailed and build upon one another, but also seem to be things that you found fit your lifestyle.
  3. Sorry for not knowing this, because I’m sure it’s in your log, but did you build up this type of conditioning or was it this type of conditioning that built you (I hope that makes sense)?

Also: thank you for pointing out food quality. That concept definitely gets lost a lot nowadays because we have the tools to fit convenience foods to our daily caloric needs, but I’ve also found it an inferior approach.

1 Like

Appreciate the kind words gents

@boilerman You know first hand how nuts the program is in that regard, haha. You just keep eating and eating and none of it becomes fat. I don’t do much supplement talk, but in “full disclosure” I do make use of apple cider vinegar before meals, flameout before my biggest meal, and Alpha Male on the 5 on/2 off protocol, so maybe that helped a little.

I’ve used the analogy that running the program twice is like watching a horror movie for a second time. You know where all the scary parts are so you can brace for them. Definitely allows for a lot more modification and tweaks.

Been great having you following along as a fellow “Deep Water Swimmer”. We’ve got a good group.

@TrainForPain I think there is value in both. Marty Gallagher was big on emphasizing the duality of training and nutrition, and it works here too. Extreme results call for extreme measures, but, in turn, those can’t be run indefinitely. If nothing else, you run the risk of turning the extreme into the norm. And when you develop THAT tolerance, where will you go for your next fix? It’s part of the reason I’m taking a break from gaining: to let my body “soften” a little so that it won’t need as much stimulus to promote growth. In turn, I’m coasting on “what works” during that time, which ALSO happens to be something very much the opposite of Deep Water: 1 big set vs a million little ones.

Most of my conditioning is stuff I come up with on the spot. I’m actually JUST about to take off on a conditioning workout that I’m still kinda nugging though. It’s going to be based around the stone of steel, but that’s about it. What I DO tend to factor in is what has been trained already and what is coming up, and I try to do conditioning that will heal the things that were trained and not get in the way of what is coming up. I have a bit of a rolodex in my brain of ideas and protocols that slot into different time slots so I can do a 2 minute, 3 minute, 5 minute, 8 minute, 10 minute, 20 minute, etc workout depending on what needs doing.

For point 3, conditioning has always been a big focus for me, but COVID allowed me to take it to another level. With isolation being the name of the game, I had a lot of free time and a lot of gym access, so I made the most of it. Conditioning is just magic though: the more you put in, the more you get out, and it makes EVERYTHING better.

More than happy to talk food quality. Lesson took me too long to learn.

2 Likes

The amount of new tissue created is insane.

You are a one off my man. A training legend.

1 Like

Much appreciated @ChongLordUno . Been a helluva ride.

1 Like

Firstly thanks for taking the time to share this 6 month journey with us. Not just this review but every session and thought you put in your log. Whilst different from my current style of training, this has been both inciteful and motivating for me and given me lots to think about.

I have watched closely your approach to this and others like @ChongLordUno who have pushed conditioning to new levels and there is definitely evidence here to suggest that this is a big piece of the puzzle that is missing for lots of us. Well definitely missing for me.
Do you think that the benefit from the conditioning has a ceiling ? By that I mean is there a point where the condition may take away from recovery rather than enhance it? For me I am thinking that simply, some conditioning is better than none and more is even better.

2 Likes

Been great having you following along @simo74 I have a write up I’ll be posting soon summarizing the whole 26 week experience as well. So many lessons learned.

Regarding conditioning, I called it magic, but “a drug” is an even more apt analogy, as the dosage that heals one kills another, and you can develop a tolerance, which means needing to “up the dose”. There’s definitely a threshold, but that’s why I’m so big on upping my conditioning during a gaining phase: if I train too hard, I just eat more. MUCH more of a razor’s edge during non-gaining times. People tend to do things backwards in that regard: they try to cut weight with conditioning, overexceed their recovery, burn out, get injured, and blame the conditioning.

3 Likes

I remember you once mentioned how a co-worker once said that you looked like you ate Matt Damon.

I think it’s safe to say that, now, you look like the guy who ate the guy who ate Matt Damon :joy:. Absolutely massive visual difference there, and a quality write up to match.

I look forward to hearing about the full 26 weeks.

1 Like

LOL I think I may have said that on his training log too.

2 Likes

Couldn’t agree with this more.

3 Likes

Just to elaborate on my thoughts here a little more. My current thinking is that the best way to progress for myself, in terms of physique, strength and conditioning is a little bit of Cardio, a little bit of intense (in the powerlifting sense), well planned, lifting and a lot of conditioning. Lots of reps of basic movements. Funnily enough, this approach seems to be echoed by all of the coaches that I follow (as well as the people who stubbornly refuse to be called coaches). Its the basis of most 531 templates, most Dan John training, Tactical Barbell etc. It even describes Crossfit pretty well at a basic level (Crossfit in my mind is still 2010-era Crossfit without all the handstand walking and skill-based bullshit).

5 Likes

It’s interesting that typical training for “real” athletes (team sports and athletics in particular) involves

  • Playing the sport and competition
  • Lift weights, with an emphasis on strength and power
  • A little bit of aerobic training (cardio)

It seems like the single-minded intensity, focus and grit that emerges in competition for such sports is the “missing” component of training for those of who aren’t athletes per se.

Perhaps conditioning is an avenue for the rest of us to expose our body to a similar level of intensity. Perhaps, without this thing (competition for athletes, conditioning for the rest of us), we cannot maximise our overall readiness?

Or maybe I’m thinking too deeply…

5 Likes

The absence of some manner of competition definitely hinders a lot of trainees as far as reaching max potential goes. I never get stronger than when I’m training for a competition, primarily because it gives me a reach goal and tends to force me to do the things I don’t like doing in order to get there. It’s easy to settle into a rut and spin your wheels when you’ve got nothing on the line, but when you’ve paid an entry fee, booked a hotel and took time off work, suddenly you’re invested and you don’t wanna blow your shot.

3 Likes

Does it necessarily have to be an actual competition though. I used to run cross country and found that my worst times were run at meets (I actually quit bc I hated the meets lol :joy:)

1 Like

No not competition specifically. I had similar experiences playing rugby. For me, trial matches and set-pieces in rugby always felt more intense than games.

2 Likes

I was not that guy at all. My wrestling coaches used to lose their tempers at me because I was such a turd in drills. I just couldn’t get up for them

3 Likes

Don’t fight Mike Tyson to get ready for Cicely Tyson!

1 Like

Probably the best advice in this thread.

2 Likes

“My power is discombobulatingly devastating. I could feel his muscle tissues collapse under my force. It’s ludicrous these mortals even attempt to enter my realm.”

2 Likes