Death of Proof

Off Topic
41

[quote]mazilla wrote:
Shakey D wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
It was well known all the shit that went on between Eminem and that Benzino guy. Not that its related, of course, but its got as good of a chance of having something to do with it.

And to the guy that said there were only two rappers that died, I think you’re missing the point. There were two that got killed that were really famous. There’ve aslo been a couple that weren’t as famous.

Not too mention, Shine is in jail, God knows how many others are in jail from their posses, Young Buck stabbed that guy a year ago, etc. It is a true culture of violence that seems like its always in the process of self destructing.

More than a couple that have died or were killed:
Proof
Tupac
Biggie
Big Pun
Big L
Freaky Tah
J Dilla
ODB
Jam Master Jay

Not to mention all the more lesser knowns Blade Icewood, the crap going on in Atlanta and the stuff that was happening between midwest and Bay area rappers.

Seems we’re losing our artists at a lot faster rate than other genres.

don’t forget mossberg.
[/quote]

Eric “Easy-E” Wright.
Coming from his best friends “Bone Thugs-N-Harmony” view on what happened, they say he say was set up to get AIDS.

42

[quote]Shakey D wrote:
Not to mention all the more lesser knowns Blade Icewood, the crap going on in Atlanta…
[/quote]

wait a minute, whats going on in ATL?

43

[quote]Dragon wrote:
mazilla wrote:
Shakey D wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
It was well known all the shit that went on between Eminem and that Benzino guy. Not that its related, of course, but its got as good of a chance of having something to do with it.

And to the guy that said there were only two rappers that died, I think you’re missing the point. There were two that got killed that were really famous. There’ve aslo been a couple that weren’t as famous.

Not too mention, Shine is in jail, God knows how many others are in jail from their posses, Young Buck stabbed that guy a year ago, etc. It is a true culture of violence that seems like its always in the process of self destructing.

More than a couple that have died or were killed:
Proof
Tupac
Biggie
Big Pun
Big L
Freaky Tah
J Dilla
ODB
Jam Master Jay

Not to mention all the more lesser knowns Blade Icewood, the crap going on in Atlanta and the stuff that was happening between midwest and Bay area rappers.

Seems we’re losing our artists at a lot faster rate than other genres.

don’t forget mossberg.

Eric “Easy-E” Wright.
Coming from his best friends “Bone Thugs-N-Harmony” view on what happened, they say he say was set up to get AIDS.[/quote]

As long as we’re remembering deaths in hip hop:

Scott La Rock
MC Trouble
The Human Beatbox (from The Fat Boys)
DJ Screw
Khadafi
Poetic (from The Gravediggaz)
…and probably others I can’t remember.

By the way, these are not all violence-related deaths.

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:
When getting shot can make the difference between your album being ignored and going platinum, money is what keeps that going. It isn’t like Record companies are against it.[/quote]

False. Most major record companies (aside from the small rap labels) don’t want to market someone who is percieved as too rough. Columbia Record dropped 50 cent after he got shot.

45

Welcome to detroit. This shit is reality. I didn’t even blink an eye when I heard it.

46

What Proofs death has to do with hip hop, is the mentality of the hip hoppers. Their whole thug lifestyle is whack. They go around with a chip on their shoulders and are ready to get violent with little provocation.

This is a community where doing time in jail is considered, cool and hip, it gives one credibility.

There is a vibe that the hip hoppers bring to a club that sucks to be around. It’s just a real low brow, uneducated, uncivilized, mentality.

In my mind I can’t seperate Proof from hip hop because that was the circle he traveled in. When I would see him around town, it wasn’t at a house night where people were laid back, civil, and able to hold an intelligent conversation.

One other thing. J Dilla died from health problems that were the result of working too hard. His death was not a hiphop death.

Unlike Tupac, Jam master J’s murder was not something he brought upon himself.

47

[quote]Sifu wrote:
What Proofs death has to do with hip hop, is the mentality of the hip hoppers. Their whole thug lifestyle is whack. They go around with a chip on their shoulders and are ready to get violent with little provocation.

This is a community where doing time in jail is considered, cool and hip, it gives one credibility.

There is a vibe that the hip hoppers bring to a club that sucks to be around. It’s just a real low brow, uneducated, uncivilized, mentality.

In my mind I can’t seperate Proof from hip hop because that was the circle he traveled in. When I would see him around town, it wasn’t at a house night where people were laid back, civil, and able to hold an intelligent conversation.

One other thing. J Dilla died from health problems that were the result of working too hard. His death was not a hiphop death.

Unlike Tupac, Jam master J’s murder was not something he brought upon himself. [/quote]

It really isn’t that simple. While most mainstream rappers exploit the thug image - because it sells - it isn’t all they are. Proof may not have been a quantum physicist, but it’s hard to listen to the more sentimental songs he put out and not hear intelligence in the background. And how often does a song like “Kurt Kobain” put out a platinum single? While there is the more urbane aspect to, say, Searching for Jerry Garcia, there’s more, as well. Can he really be blamed for catering to the masses?

To me, at least, it sounds like there’s something about what happened at the club that the police haven’t disclosed. While to say that “he brought his death upon himself” may be factually correct, it seems a long way from right.

48

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
Welcome to detroit. This shit is reality. I didn’t even blink an eye when I heard it.

[/quote]

You from Detroit or a suburb? If so which one?

49

[quote]Sifu wrote:
What Proofs death has to do with hip hop, is the mentality of the hip hoppers. Their whole thug lifestyle is whack. They go around with a chip on their shoulders and are ready to get violent with little provocation.[/quote]

If you cast the net broadly enough of course you’re going to catch some fish.

The problem with your statement, of course, is that hip hop is such a diverse genre, with a diverse audience, and diverse MCs that what you suggest is not even remotely true.

Even if we limit this discussion to D12 you have Bizarre on Celebrity Fit club and Eminem writing the gayest ballads ever about his daughter now. So even in this one group you have at least two guys who are pretty far from “gangsta.”

Again, you have some really narrow view of hip hop born from limited exposure to the genre. Just to name, off the top of my head, people who don’t really rap about crime…Pharcyde, Digable Planets, Eydea, Atmosphere, Busdriver, Deltron, People Under the Stairs, A Tribe Called Quest, Blackalicious, the Beastie Boys, Brother Ali, Aesop, the Grouch, MF Doom, C-Rayz Walz, De La Soul, Dizzee Rascal, Jedi Mind Tricks, Jurassic 5…should I go on?

Rapping about crime is a fairly small fraction of all the hip hop out there.

I know because usually when I go to hip hop shows here its a bunch of skinny little emo rock boys.

No, its a bunch of non t-men. What shows are you going to? I haven’t been to a hip hop show in the last couple of years with an audience like that.

But that was the circle HE travelled in. Look who Bizarre is chilling with. So one guy from D12 hangs with gangsters and one hangs out with Kelly Lebrock. I’m not sure what conclusions you can draw from this.

This suggests you were hanging out in the same establishments as him. You surround yourself with that element and you’re going to see it everywhere obviously.

I’ve gotten into fights and been threatened, feared for my life and everything else at punk and metal shows. Thats where I see dumb shit, undeducated, violent fucks. I mean my girlfriend got fucking leveled at SxSW this year by a dumbshit, drunken British stagediver at a show. And she’s and I have both had to fight off assholes at lots of indie rock shows. And yet never any problems at hip hop shows here. Just good vibes and people having fun.

But I’m not going to draw any conclusions about any group of people from that. I just know where there are mosh pits, assholes follow. Where there is hip hop, the club is chill. That’s how it is in Texas (or, from my sampling, Austin and Houston). Maybe you go looking for gangsta shit and gangsta hangouts and thats what you see.

50

a rapper killed, NO FREAKIN WAY, im surprised more rappers arent gettin killed.

51

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:
Welcome to detroit. This shit is reality. I didn’t even blink an eye when I heard it.

You from Detroit or a suburb? If so which one?
[/quote]

Born in detroit, raised in Dearborn heights, about 2 about blocks outside detroit. Moved the F out about a year or so ago…

52

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When getting shot can make the difference between your album being ignored and going platinum, money is what keeps that going. It isn’t like Record companies are against it.

False. Most major record companies (aside from the small rap labels) don’t want to market someone who is percieved as too rough. Columbia Record dropped 50 cent after he got shot.
[/quote]

I doubt they would do the same if they had the chance. That was before they realized the incident would make him a millionaire. They thought he couldn’t rap after that. That was why they dropped him, not because of some strict “no violence” policy.

53

[quote]Professor X wrote:
belligerent wrote:
Professor X wrote:
When getting shot can make the difference between your album being ignored and going platinum, money is what keeps that going. It isn’t like Record companies are against it.

False. Most major record companies (aside from the small rap labels) don’t want to market someone who is percieved as too rough. Columbia Record dropped 50 cent after he got shot.

I doubt they would do the same if they had the chance. That was before they realized the incident would make him a millionaire. They thought he couldn’t rap after that. That was why they dropped him, not because of some strict “no violence” policy.[/quote]

Getting shot in the mouth can kind of bring down the value of someone in the recording industry

54

[quote]rg73 wrote:

Again, you have some really narrow view of hip hop born from limited exposure to the genre. Just to name, off the top of my head, people who don’t really rap about crime…Pharcyde, Digable Planets, Eydea, Atmosphere, Busdriver, Deltron, People Under the Stairs, A Tribe Called Quest, Blackalicious, the Beastie Boys, Brother Ali, Aesop, the Grouch, MF Doom, C-Rayz Walz, De La Soul, Dizzee Rascal, Jedi Mind Tricks, Jurassic 5…should I go on?

[/quote]

Especially as far as this web site goes, I doubt the majority even know one of the groups you just mentioned. Their exposure to Hip Hop is simply this, when someone gets killed. They don’t listen to the music and don’t even waste any time granting it any credibility. I always wonder how they conveniently skip over the ridiculously HUGE impact it is having on music as a whole even down to country music. I am betting you still have some dumb enough to think rap is just a fad.

Just to highlight what you wrote though, there is a huge difference between real Hip Hop, and whatever pop shit they only play on the radio 98 times a day. To then speak negatively about an entire genre makes no sense and would be like me putting down all of hard metal music based on what I hear on MTV.

55

Since I live in a suburb near Detroit, I also wasnt surprised about this at all. Detroits pretty crazy… i’ve been there plenty of times at night for concerts and whatnot and it can be pretty scary. The bums especially freak you out.

This shits been all over the news, especially around here.

56

A rapper getting shot…like thats something new.

57

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Especially as far as this web site goes, I doubt the majority even know one of the groups you just mentioned.[/quote]

I know the Beastie Boys, but that’s it. I’ve never even heard of everyone else on that list.

While I don’t think it’s really a “fad”, I do think music popularity is very cyclical. Rap isn’t going to fade away, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that in a few years rap will decline in popularity, or get mixed with other genres until ‘rap’ as we define it today isn’t as popular.

58

[quote]Professor X wrote:
rg73 wrote:

Again, you have some really narrow view of hip hop born from limited exposure to the genre. Just to name, off the top of my head, people who don’t really rap about crime…Pharcyde, Digable Planets, Eydea, Atmosphere, Busdriver, Deltron, People Under the Stairs, A Tribe Called Quest, Blackalicious, the Beastie Boys, Brother Ali, Aesop, the Grouch, MF Doom, C-Rayz Walz, De La Soul, Dizzee Rascal, Jedi Mind Tricks, Jurassic 5…should I go on?

Especially as far as this web site goes, I doubt the majority even know one of the groups you just mentioned. Their exposure to Hip Hop is simply this, when someone gets killed. They don’t listen to the music and don’t even waste any time granting it any credibility. I always wonder how they conveniently skip over the ridiculously HUGE impact it is having on music as a whole even down to country music. I am betting you still have some dumb enough to think rap is just a fad.

Just to highlight what you wrote though, there is a huge difference between real Hip Hop, and whatever pop shit they only play on the radio 98 times a day. To then speak negatively about an entire genre makes no sense and would be like me putting down all of hard metal music based on what I hear on MTV.[/quote]

Agreed. With both of you.

Hip-hop has changed. The golden era is long over. To add to those you haven’t mentioned, Boogie Down Productions, Eric B. & Rakim, The Pharcyde, Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth, Public Enemy, Wu-Tang, De La Soul, Slick Rick, EPMD, Gang Starr, Jeru the Damaja, the whole Native Tongues crew, Marley Marl, MC Shan, Roxanne Shante, these are the ones whose legacy is being lived on by the underground rappers of today, the ones you mentioned, J-5, Atmosphere, all the Def Jux members, the Roots, Common, Mos Def & Talib Kweli.

I’d also like to point out that not all gangsta rap is like the shit you hear nowadays. Illmatic is the prime case of this. Jay-Z’s Reasonable Doubt, another, although I put some blame on this album for starting the bling-bling craze (although it wasn’t as pronounced here as it would be with Jigga’s later moronic escapades). Hardcore rap groups like the Wu-Tang, Public Enemy, Gangstarr, even early Boogie Down Productions, they all had more messages than “guns, bitches, and weed.”

What I struggle with the most is the brilliance, both musical and lyrical (although not contextual) of Straight Outta Compton, of Doggystyle, of AmeriKKKa’s Most Wanted, Ready to Die, the Chronic, etc., that has to go hand in hand with a lot of the messages these guys put out. Even if many of their songs, even albums (like Ice Cube’s sophomore Death Certificate) deal with the problems of street life and have an introspective side, the overall message remains violence, violence, violence.

Now, I love hardcore rap. Illmatic is my favorite hip-hop CD of all time, period. And I need some aggression every now and then, I can’t have all jazzy soul-inspired beats under the Teacher’s rhymes, I need change every now and then. But like I said, hardcore rap doesn’t have to be the shit it is today. Not to mention that the lyrics and music on MTV is absolute shit, but this is a different issue.

59

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Rap isn’t going to fade away, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that in a few years rap will decline in popularity,
[/quote]

They said the same thing back in 1980.

60

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
While I don’t think it’s really a “fad”, I do think music popularity is very cyclical. Rap isn’t going to fade away, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that in a few years rap will decline in popularity, or get mixed with other genres until ‘rap’ as we define it today isn’t as popular.
[/quote]

You could say that about any genre or subgenre. The “rock” music of the 50’s is much different than what we call rock today. Is anybody making psychedelic rock like Pink Floyd or the Grateful Dead? Yes, there is some psychedelic out there, but it’s a different sound now and not nearly as popular.

So, I guess in a way what you said is true, but it’s true for any type of music. Great analytical skills. You should get a job at Rolling Stone.