Death of Proof

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Especially as far as this web site goes, I doubt the majority even know one of the groups you just mentioned.

I know the Beastie Boys, but that’s it. I’ve never even heard of everyone else on that list.
[/quote]

I just wanted to add, there are people in Iraq who know this music better than that. Tribe Called Quest and Pharcyde are unknowns? To give you a hint, that would be like saying you’ve never heard of Metallica or Kurt Cobain. How is it some people just miss an entire genre of music that actually has a substantial impact?

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
StevenF wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:
Welcome to detroit. This shit is reality. I didn’t even blink an eye when I heard it.

You from Detroit or a suburb? If so which one?

Born in detroit, raised in Dearborn heights, about 2 about blocks outside detroit. Moved the F out about a year or so ago…

[/quote]

Aw…why’d you move? Its such a lovely area…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
tGunslinger wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Especially as far as this web site goes, I doubt the majority even know one of the groups you just mentioned.

I know the Beastie Boys, but that’s it. I’ve never even heard of everyone else on that list.

I just wanted to add, there are people in Iraq who know this music better than that. Tribe Called Quest and Pharcyde are unknowns? To give you a hint, that would be like saying you’ve never heard of Metallica or Kurt Cobain. How is it some people just miss an entire genre of music that actually has a substantial impact?[/quote]

LL has made a huge impact as well. I wonder why people always gloss over him and just how talented he his? I can admit that most of the movies he does are shit, but that doesn’t mean he can’t act. Phenomenon and Shut Em Down still blow my mind!

[quote]StevenF wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:
StevenF wrote:
Velvet Revolver wrote:
Welcome to detroit. This shit is reality. I didn’t even blink an eye when I heard it.

You from Detroit or a suburb? If so which one?

Born in detroit, raised in Dearborn heights, about 2 about blocks outside detroit. Moved the F out about a year or so ago…

Aw…why’d you move? Its such a lovely area… [/quote]

I used to lift at Big daddy’s (a golds) in garden city back in the day. A pretty sweet hardcore friendly place to throw some iron around…

[quote]Velvet Revolver wrote:
I used to lift at Big daddy’s (a golds) in garden city back in the day. A pretty sweet hardcore friendly place to throw some iron around…[/quote]

I read this and read this again and thought you were saying Big Daddy Kane owned a gym. Then I realized you were just talking about where you used to live.

[quote]masterblaster wrote:
You don’t see any gospel singers getting shot or any other artists from any other genre. [/quote]

What about marvin gaye? John Lennon? Just to name 2 off the top of my head.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
masterblaster wrote:
You don’t see any gospel singers getting shot or any other artists from any other genre.

What about marvin gaye? John Lennon? Just to name 2 off the top of my head.

[/quote]

Not to mention the suicides and drug overdoses that run rampant in rock music. Are those somehow better?

Death and violence aside, Pimp C is free on parole. Big ups to UGK!! Pimps up, hoes down. And you know this…MAN!!

Hip-hop has changed. The golden era is long over. To add to those you haven’t mentioned, Boogie Down Productions, Eric B. & Rakim, The Pharcyde, Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth, Public Enemy, Wu-Tang, De La Soul, Slick Rick, EPMD, Gang Starr, Jeru the Damaja, the whole Native Tongues crew, Marley Marl, MC Shan, Roxanne Shante, these are the ones whose legacy is being lived on by the underground rappers of today, the ones you mentioned, J-5, Atmosphere, all the Def Jux members, the Roots, Common, Mos Def & Talib Kweli.

I’d also like to point out that not all gangsta rap is like the shit you hear nowadays. Illmatic is the prime case of this. Jay-Z’s Reasonable Doubt, another, although I put some blame on this album for starting the bling-bling craze (although it wasn’t as pronounced here as it would be with Jigga’s later moronic escapades). Hardcore rap groups like the Wu-Tang, Public Enemy, Gangstarr, even early Boogie Down Productions, they all had more messages than “guns, bitches, and weed.”

What I struggle with the most is the brilliance, both musical and lyrical (although not contextual) of Straight Outta Compton, of Doggystyle, of AmeriKKKa’s Most Wanted, Ready to Die, the Chronic, etc., that has to go hand in hand with a lot of the messages these guys put out. Even if many of their songs, even albums (like Ice Cube’s sophomore Death Certificate) deal with the problems of street life and have an introspective side, the overall message remains violence, violence, violence.

Now, I love hardcore rap. Illmatic is my favorite hip-hop CD of all time, period. And I need some aggression every now and then, I can’t have all jazzy soul-inspired beats under the Teacher’s rhymes, I need change every now and then. But like I said, hardcore rap doesn’t have to be the shit it is today. Not to mention that the lyrics and music on MTV is absolute shit, but this is a different issue.

I see no metion of Too Short, the OG pimp player baller.

A man reaps what he sows

(Yes I know I spelled it sows that is from the actual quote everyone corrupts it as sews)

[quote]Sxio wrote:
masterblaster wrote:
You don’t see any gospel singers getting shot or any other artists from any other genre.

What about marvin gaye? John Lennon? Just to name 2 off the top of my head.
[/quote]

Diffence here Sxio is that Marvin was shot by his own father in some disfunctional family fight and not by another RB artist as a result of some crazy feud. John Lennon was killed by some psychotic asshole not by another rock star.

These rap gangster thug morons are offing each other in some East Coast vs West Coast war.

The world would miss absolutely nothing if they all disapeared so maybe its OK to let them extinguish each other…besides they don’t offer society anything of value as far as their philosophy is concerned.

Their “music” (I hate to call it that) is full of “fuck this and fuck that” and there is no respect for their women to whom they all refer to as “bitches”…as I said, MORONS, with money run amock, insecurely grabbing at their crotch every chance they get.

MB

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Sxio wrote:
masterblaster wrote:
You don’t see any gospel singers getting shot or any other artists from any other genre.

What about marvin gaye? John Lennon? Just to name 2 off the top of my head.

Not to mention the suicides and drug overdoses that run rampant in rock music. Are those somehow better?
[/quote]

Certainly, suicides and drug overdoses are not any better but those are self-inflicted and not violently directed at their fellow artists like those thugs.

MB

I can’t believe everyone is so suprised. Proof rapped about murder and crime, joked about it and when it finally happened everyone’s shocked. He lived by the gun and died by the gun. This is why foreigners despise the U.S. Their’s 50 million innocent dying in Africa but 1 self-proclaimed “gangsta” get popped and it’s a tragedy? Sorry but big fuckin deal. Kanye West should be on that list of rappers that never had to rap about crime and killing to sell CD’s.

[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Sxio wrote:
masterblaster wrote:
You don’t see any gospel singers getting shot or any other artists from any other genre.

What about marvin gaye? John Lennon? Just to name 2 off the top of my head.

Diffence here Sxio is that Marvin was shot by his own father in some disfunctional family fight and not by another RB artist as a result of some crazy feud. John Lennon was killed by some psychotic asshole not by another rock star.[/quote]

And Proof was shot by a bouncer. Tupac by a gang-banger. How is there really any difference? It isn’t like rappers are loading-up and going after each-other; rather, they’re killed by psychotic assholes, too - just like Lennon.

Except that nobody’s talked about the East-Coast/West-Coast deal in, well, ten years. It was really only publicity, too - it’s not like the East Coast is what actually killed Tupac.

Wow. Are you fucking serious?

[quote]Their “music” (I hate to call it that) is full of “fuck this and fuck that” and there is no respect for their women to whom they all refer to as “bitches”…as I said, MORONS, with money run amock, insecurely grabbing at their crotch every chance they get.

MB[/quote]

Before you pass judgment on what is probably the most diverse musical genre of all time, you really should look up some of the artists mentioned earlier - Common and Mos Def, among others.

[quote]masterblaster wrote:

These rap gangster thug morons are offing each other in some East Coast vs West Coast war.

The world would miss absolutely nothing if they all disapeared so maybe its OK to let them extinguish each other…besides they don’t offer society anything of value as far as their philosophy is concerned.

Their “music” (I hate to call it that) is full of “fuck this and fuck that” and there is no respect for their women to whom they all refer to as “bitches”…as I said, MORONS, with money run amock, insecurely grabbing at their crotch every chance they get.

MB[/quote]

  1. nobody cares or gives a shit about west side v. east side anymore. you say it like all rappers die from this. it happened like … twice. any other time its because of random bullshit.

  2. i despise it when people say that all rappers talk about is, this and that, you’ve just heard the mainstream shit, for a minute why dont you look at some of the “underground” artist or some up and comers like papoose, and saigon, both of these guys talk about shit thats happening in the world.

  3. I’ve heard alot more rock bands talk about fucked up shit than rappers. the extent of a rapper is “i shot this fool and fucked his broad.”(i made this up, if it wasnt obvious), but on the other hand you have bands like cannibal corpse saying shit like,http://darklyrics.com/lyrics/cannibalcorpse/livecannibalism.html#4

Issac117:

Its the philosophy and the life-style that is in question here…rap thugs promte and seem to take some perverted pride in this gangster mentality and so they and their followers fall victim to themselves. Another poster stated “you reap what you sow” and this is the point.

Other genres of muisc(respectable true music) do not enourage this type of life. Old school rock for example addressed social ills and encouraged social change all for the good of society and the betterment of the future. You can’t find that type of value in this gangster rap crap. Have you ever listened to the lyrics on Marvin Gaye’s “Mercy Mercy Me” or John Lennon’s “Imagine”?

And I do not understand why they have to infuse every lyric (if you can call it that) with “fuck” and “bitch” and other like language…this comes from a lack of intelligent vocabulary. These dudes ought to take all that money they’re making and invest it in a college education or perhaps, to start, a GED or HS education.

I truly believe that neither Martin Luther King or Malcolm X would approve of this “music” and the message it sends to youth, especailly black youth.
I know my father, who was Black, would never have allowed this shit in our house when we were growing up and I do not allow it with my kids…they know better.

MB

[quote]Bodyguard wrote:
A man reaps what he sows

(Yes I know I spelled it sows that is from the actual quote everyone corrupts it as sews)[/quote]

Off topic, but are people really that stupid that they thinks it’s:

“reaps what he sews”?

s-e-w-s?

This bothers me more than Proof’s death.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Isaac 117 wrote:
belligerent wrote:
Now they’re saying that Proof fired the first shot

Could’ve. But considering the club has a reputation for not really being a good place to be, that it was open past legal operating hours, and that he went alone, that he’s normally - from what I’ve heard - a fairly mellow guy, it’s still kind of weird.

It is weird. Maybe he was set up. Some guys hate to see other people become successful.[/quote]

That is so very true!

[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Issac117:

Its the philosophy and the life-style that is in question here…rap thugs promte and seem to take some perverted pride in this gangster mentality and so they and their followers fall victim to themselves. Another poster stated “you reap what you sow” and this is the point.

Other genres of muisc(respectable true music) do not enourage this type of life. Old school rock for example addressed social ills and encouraged social change all for the good of society and the betterment of the future. You can’t find that type of value in this gangster rap crap. Have you ever listened to the lyrics on Marvin Gaye’s “Mercy Mercy Me” or John Lennon’s “Imagine”?

And I do not understand why they have to infuse every lyric (if you can call it that) with “fuck” and “bitch” and other like language…this comes from a lack of intelligent vocabulary. These dudes ought to take all that money they’re making and invest it in a college education or perhaps, to start, a GED or HS education.

I truly believe that neither Martin Luther King or Malcolm X would approve of this “music” and the message it sends to youth, especailly black youth.
I know my father, who was Black, would never have allowed this shit in our house when we were growing up and I do not allow it with my kids…they know better.

MB[/quote]

You seem to be under the impression that all rap is akin to what you see on BET, when, as has been said probably a dozen times thus far in just this topic - it isn’t. And there aren’t very many, if any, rappers that I can name that base their entire portfolio upon a thug image. To this end, you must not let your kids play violent videogames, either, because if they can’t tell the difference between the lyrics of a song and real life, they sure as Hell can’t tell the difference between Grand Theft Auto and reality.

Claiming that rappers are just “reaping what they sow” is a joke. Does anybody blame Pearl Jam when a kid kills himself in front of his classmates? No. And yet Proof - unknown circumstances notwithstanding - is blamed for black on black crime.

And if you want to talk about greats like Marvin Gaye, at least bring up a comparable rapper - Proof was a good man and a good rapper, but he’s not going to go down, in the grand scheme of things, as a legend. Why not talk about Tupac? Oh, right, because then your argument would hold no water. Tupac - on his very first album - goes to great lengths on social inequity, rape, molestation, and other topics. On his second he talks about the effects of lacking a father figure, about single mothers, and about the abuse of women. On the third… Do I really need to go on?

And calling a rapper ignorant because he uses profanity is the weakest excuse for defamation I’ve ever heard. Here’s the thing: I use profanity. Quite a bit. It’s not a replacement for “intelligent vocabulary,” it’s a method of emphasis. There are certain ways that words with moderate social taboos can get a message across that denotatively equivalent words can’t. It’s that simple.

Finally - calling it all shit is avoiding the issue. There are rappers out there that are smarter than you are. Chances are - however slim - that there are rappers out there smarter than I am. They can put together lyrics, which, if your life depended on it, you couldn’t. These same rappers are the ones who inject vulgarity into every line, and yet, they’ve got the active vocabulary of a Rhodes scholar. Do they talk about women in a negative light? Probably. Have you? Probably. They’re not perfect - they’re people.

[quote]masterblaster wrote:
Issac117:

Its the philosophy and the life-style that is in question here…rap thugs promte and seem to take some perverted pride in this gangster mentality and so they and their followers fall victim to themselves. Another poster stated “you reap what you sow” and this is the point.

Other genres of muisc(respectable true music) do not enourage this type of life.[/quote] Bullshit! Johnny Cash sung about killing people, mainly women, in more songs than any other artist I know. In fact, Merle Haggard and David Allan Coe sung openly and proudly about spending time in prison. It was called Outlaw Country. Of course, maybe this isn’t “respectable true music” either.[quote]
Old school rock for example addressed social ills and encouraged social change all for the good of society and the betterment of the future. You can’t find that type of value in this gangster rap crap.[/quote] Oh really? You think N.W.A.'s Fuck the Police wasn’t a cry for social change and the betterment of society? Was it profane? Yes, but it had a message; a message that many across the country needed to hear. Every album Ice-T made was anti-drug. He warned youth against the trap of drug dealing and the hustling lifestyle. Yes it was graphic, but again, it had a message.[quote]
Have you ever listened to the lyrics on Marvin Gaye’s “Mercy Mercy Me” or John Lennon’s “Imagine”?

And I do not understand why they have to infuse every lyric (if you can call it that[/quote] why wouldn’t you be able to call it that?[quote]) with “fuck” and “bitch” and other like language…this comes from a lack of intelligent vocabulary.[/quote] You’ve got to be kidding? What are you listening to? Yes there is some profanity, but there are far more artists that don’t use profanity. I seriously would like to know what songs you have heard that you can make generalizations about an entire genre. Seriously.[quote]
These dudes ought to take all that money they’re making and invest it in a college education or perhaps, to start, a GED or HS education.

I truly believe that neither Martin Luther King or Malcolm X would approve of this “music”[/quote] I love when people describe rap and put music in quotes. Tell me the definition of music and how rap doesn’t fit that definition.[quote] and the message it sends to youth, especailly black youth.
I know my father, who was Black, would never have allowed this shit in our house when we were growing up and I do not allow it with my kids…they know better.

MB[/quote]

First, I will say that, yes, there is some rap that is violent and profane just to be violent and profane. But that makes up such a small percentage of hip hop. Is that really all you have ever heard?

I will also say that, yes, there is a certain personal danger you place yourself in when you adopt an edgy or hardcore public persona. At the same time, I don’t recall Proof being much of a gangsta or hardcore. I think someone else described him and D12 well as a shock rap group.

I am not completely shocked or surprised, people die all the time. I just think it’s sad that people actually think he deserved to die because of his chosen profession.