[quote]p-dub wrote:
It looks like your set up is to tight. I also think you upper body could b over the bar more in the starting position. you need to find your groove if you want 2 pull bigger weight. you should really look at cressys articles or go over to elitefts.com where do you work out?[/quote]
I’ve read all of Cressey’s articles and visit elitefts quite often. I guess I just need to read them all again and really study them. Thanks.
Here’s a good article by Rippetoe on deadlifting: crossfit.com/journal/2006/11/a_new_rather_long_analysis_of.html
Pretty much echoes what cgeezy said. Shoulders blades over the bar…not behind. And retract the scapula.
After reading some more articles and watching some vids, I’ve concluded that I need to get my ass up a bit and keep my chest up! I’m also going to bring my feet in a bit.
you’re starting too low and your ass comes up too quick making it a stiff leg deadlift. keep your legs in it longer. and, another good way to find a decent starting position for the pull is to be aware of where you place the bar when you complete a rep. when you watch your video of you doing multiple reps with light weight, you can see your starting point for the second and following reps is much better than your first.
[quote]Uber N3wb wrote:
Clearly there is more than one way to skin the cat, but to me, the points I made seem like good advice.
I would say your way would be safer, I just dont think it would be stronger. Then again theres no way I could keep my shoulder blades back if I was close to my max on deadlifts so I guess I am biased.
EDIT: im not completley sure about pulling the bar in a straight line being more beneficial, all I have read on the subject is dave tats stuff about leverage.
I personally dont try to pull it back, or in a straight line, I just pull it and Im sure it wouldnt make that much difference either way. I just said it because I read it and it made sense to me.[/quote]
You have good points, and I’ve also read (from EC, I think) that your thoracic spine can handle flexion forces much much better than your lumbar spine. So upper back rounding during max lifts or high loads is probably not a problem if you’re strong enough. I just don’t want peeps getting hurt!
I can also see what you’re saying about the leverage, and also I would venture to say that it doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things, just something to think about.
A lot of great discussion in this thread. Exactly what I was looking for. Thanks and keep it up!
Dre,
Your feet are definitely a bit too wide. I’d bring them in so that when you grab the bar, your arms are just outside of your knees and your hands are almost touching the smooth part of the bar (feet 12-15" apart). This will allow you a better starting position, and you won’t have to get into a squat stance to start.
Your pulls at lower weight look much better than your max pulls. I’d focus on some heavy weighted abdominals, and the GHR if you have one available.
Since you are tall, your max pull is going to look more like a Stiff Leg Deadlift than some others will. I wouldn’t worry too much about it…if your low back is strong, this is pretty natural. Hit the weak links, and the DL will come up.
One other thing you may want to work on is some speed pulls. Pick a weight that is 60-70% of your max and hit it for triples. Work on moving the weight as fast as possible. If you get in the habit of pulling quickly, you’ll get some nice carryover to your max pull and may be enough to blast through a sticking point.
Just my .02.
[quote]Modi wrote:
Dre,
Your feet are definitely a bit too wide. I’d bring them in so that when you grab the bar, your arms are just outside of your knees and your hands are almost touching the smooth part of the bar (feet 12-15" apart). This will allow you a better starting position, and you won’t have to get into a squat stance to start.
Your pulls at lower weight look much better than your max pulls. I’d focus on some heavy weighted abdominals, and the GHR if you have one available.
Since you are tall, your max pull is going to look more like a Stiff Leg Deadlift than some others will. I wouldn’t worry too much about it…if your low back is strong, this is pretty natural. Hit the weak links, and the DL will come up.
One other thing you may want to work on is some speed pulls. Pick a weight that is 60-70% of your max and hit it for triples. Work on moving the weight as fast as possible. If you get in the habit of pulling quickly, you’ll get some nice carryover to your max pull and may be enough to blast through a sticking point.
Just my .02.[/quote]
Modi,
Awesome advice man. I thought about asking this same question in the Westside PLing thread, but didn’t want to bug you fellas. haha I was hoping that someone from that thread would see this.
I will absolutely start hitting the abs hard, I know they are a weak spot of mine. I do have access to a GHR at the gym, and will be killing myself on that thing.
I like the idea of the speed pulls and will focus on those too.
So, here’s what I’m going to change, work on. Move my feet in, don’t lower my ass so far, hit my abs and do GHRs, speed pulls, keep chest up and lower back neutral. Anything else? lol
[quote]dre wrote:
I will absolutely start hitting the abs hard, I know they are a weak spot of mine. I do have access to a GHR at the gym, and will be killing myself on that thing.
I like the idea of the speed pulls and will focus on those too.
So, here’s what I’m going to change, work on. Move my feet in, don’t lower my ass so far, hit my abs and do GHRs, speed pulls, keep chest up and lower back neutral. Anything else? lol[/quote]
Yeah your weak spot and certainly mine as well 
Make sure you’re doing your assistance exercises; GHRs are great, try some neutral spine pull-throughs on a pulley to work on the lockout portion, and definitely definitely (I know it sucks :)) some unilateral work (lunges, bulgarian squats, etc.) That will attack your p-chain ruthlessly haha.
[quote]cgeezy wrote:
dre wrote:
I will absolutely start hitting the abs hard, I know they are a weak spot of mine. I do have access to a GHR at the gym, and will be killing myself on that thing.
I like the idea of the speed pulls and will focus on those too.
So, here’s what I’m going to change, work on. Move my feet in, don’t lower my ass so far, hit my abs and do GHRs, speed pulls, keep chest up and lower back neutral. Anything else? lol
Yeah your weak spot and certainly mine as well Make sure you’re doing your assistance exercises; GHRs are great, try some neutral spine pull-throughs on a pulley to work on the lockout portion, and definitely definitely (I know it sucks :)) some unilateral work (lunges, bulgarian squats, etc.) That will attack your p-chain ruthlessly haha.
[/quote]
I’ve been wanting to incorporate pull-throughs into my training, looks like I’ll be doing that now. That should get me some weird looks. haha People already look at me funny when I do face-pulls.
And damn you for suggesting lunges. Those hurt! haha
[quote]Modi wrote:
Dre,
Your feet are definitely a bit too wide. I’d bring them in so that when you grab the bar, your arms are just outside of your knees and your hands are almost touching the smooth part of the bar (feet 12-15" apart). This will allow you a better starting position, and you won’t have to get into a squat stance to start.
Your pulls at lower weight look much better than your max pulls. I’d focus on some heavy weighted abdominals, and the GHR if you have one available.
Since you are tall, your max pull is going to look more like a Stiff Leg Deadlift than some others will. I wouldn’t worry too much about it…if your low back is strong, this is pretty natural. Hit the weak links, and the DL will come up.
One other thing you may want to work on is some speed pulls. Pick a weight that is 60-70% of your max and hit it for triples. Work on moving the weight as fast as possible. If you get in the habit of pulling quickly, you’ll get some nice carryover to your max pull and may be enough to blast through a sticking point.
Just my .02.[/quote]
Hate to disagree with such well thought out advice but NO SPEED PULLS until you get your form straight. And you have a ways to go before getting your form straight.
As to any weaknesses, right now, at your weight (as compared to your present max pull), you just need to get stronger all over - that means don’t worry about your weak point, mini max and all that other overly (for now) technical stuff. Just hit the posterior chain hard and work on getting STRONGER - everywhere. And work on your form.
People here get caught up in too many details when most just need to get stronger. They read too many articles and blogs from guys that are pulling near limits competitively and want to apply it to someone lifting moderate weights. Although the principles are sound, most of you just need to get stronger without concentrating on things like minimaxes, etc. Work your posterior hard, improve your form, work your DL hard, and your DL WILL improve.
When you can lift much more, and you want to do it competitively, then you can start worrying with the devil in the details.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Modi wrote:
Dre,
Your feet are definitely a bit too wide. I’d bring them in so that when you grab the bar, your arms are just outside of your knees and your hands are almost touching the smooth part of the bar (feet 12-15" apart). This will allow you a better starting position, and you won’t have to get into a squat stance to start.
Your pulls at lower weight look much better than your max pulls. I’d focus on some heavy weighted abdominals, and the GHR if you have one available.
Since you are tall, your max pull is going to look more like a Stiff Leg Deadlift than some others will. I wouldn’t worry too much about it…if your low back is strong, this is pretty natural. Hit the weak links, and the DL will come up.
One other thing you may want to work on is some speed pulls. Pick a weight that is 60-70% of your max and hit it for triples. Work on moving the weight as fast as possible. If you get in the habit of pulling quickly, you’ll get some nice carryover to your max pull and may be enough to blast through a sticking point.
Just my .02.
Hate to disagree with such well thought out advice but NO SPEED PULLS until you get your form straight. And you have a ways to go before getting your form straight.
As to any weaknesses, right now, at your weight (as compared to your present max pull), you just need to get stronger all over - that means don’t worry about your weak point, mini max and all that other overly (for now) technical stuff. Just hit the posterior chain hard and work on getting STRONGER - everywhere. And work on your form.
People here get caught up in too many details when most just need to get stronger. They read too many articles and blogs from guys that are pulling near limits competitively and want to apply it to someone lifting moderate weights. Although the principles are sound, most of you just need to get stronger without concentrating on things like minimaxes, etc. Work your posterior hard, improve your form, work your DL hard, and your DL WILL improve.
When you can lift much more, and you want to do it competitively, then you can start worrying with the devil in the details.
[/quote]
I hear what you are saying and that’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m just worried about getting stronger overall right now and dropping some body fat. I’m not worried about really advanced training ideas or anything else. Although, I do love to hear different ideas, techniques and stuff like that.
My main objective right now is to get stronger and make sure my form on my lifts is perfect.
I’m not great at writing about technical points of the deadlift, but your last video looked good to me. You were defintely pulling more with your hams and lower back and your knees locked out last. Interestingly, Coach Robert dos Remedios likens this as a pushing exercise somewhat like a vertical leg press.
A good tip from Dan John has one using small plates(5lb) under the toes to ensure weight from moving forward and to emphasize the “sitting back” feeling. Practice snatch grip deads and rack pulls. They will add variety and and work the weaker points. I have all my clients pulling deads and their ages range from 20 to 60 and all have great results in everything else they do in AND out of the gym. Keep up the good work.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Modi wrote:
Dre,
Your feet are definitely a bit too wide. I’d bring them in so that when you grab the bar, your arms are just outside of your knees and your hands are almost touching the smooth part of the bar (feet 12-15" apart). This will allow you a better starting position, and you won’t have to get into a squat stance to start.
Your pulls at lower weight look much better than your max pulls. I’d focus on some heavy weighted abdominals, and the GHR if you have one available.
Since you are tall, your max pull is going to look more like a Stiff Leg Deadlift than some others will. I wouldn’t worry too much about it…if your low back is strong, this is pretty natural. Hit the weak links, and the DL will come up.
One other thing you may want to work on is some speed pulls. Pick a weight that is 60-70% of your max and hit it for triples. Work on moving the weight as fast as possible. If you get in the habit of pulling quickly, you’ll get some nice carryover to your max pull and may be enough to blast through a sticking point.
Just my .02.
Hate to disagree with such well thought out advice but NO SPEED PULLS until you get your form straight. And you have a ways to go before getting your form straight.
As to any weaknesses, right now, at your weight (as compared to your present max pull), you just need to get stronger all over - that means don’t worry about your weak point, mini max and all that other overly (for now) technical stuff. Just hit the posterior chain hard and work on getting STRONGER - everywhere. And work on your form.
People here get caught up in too many details when most just need to get stronger. They read too many articles and blogs from guys that are pulling near limits competitively and want to apply it to someone lifting moderate weights. Although the principles are sound, most of you just need to get stronger without concentrating on things like minimaxes, etc. Work your posterior hard, improve your form, work your DL hard, and your DL WILL improve.
When you can lift much more, and you want to do it competitively, then you can start worrying with the devil in the details.
[/quote]
I disagree. I think speed pulls are great for someone like Dre. His technique at the lighter weights looks much better than when he goes for a max pull.
If he drops the weight to 60-70%, and hits several sets of triples, he will do two things. First, he will get used to pulling hard and fast from the floor, but more importantly, he is going to get a lot of reps at a submaximal weight. He’s already shown that his form improves quite a bit at the lower weights, so pulling like this will engrain the technique.
You say to forget about all the fancy stuff and just work on getting stronger in the posterior chain and everywhere. I recommended that he work on GHR’s (posterior chain) and heavy ab work. I don’t think we are talking about different things here.
Later on you recommend again that he work his posterior chain, work on form, and work on DLing. This is pretty much what everyone else has been saying as well.
There are too many people here on this site spending too much time trying to disagree with each other. I think he got some pretty sound advice and is headed in the right direction.
Sorry but when your recommend to someone to do speed work on a lift he hasn’t yet perfected, you’re inviting disagreement and rightfully so. His form at 135 being good is debatable and to say his form @ 70% or so would be good enough is just plain wrong. Sorry, “but you brought this on yourself”. All the other advice is fine but speed work is the LAST thing he should do - once he gets his form down.
These are all great points…I’m in your ballpark at your max (at about 410) so I know the hunger for the 500lb mark.
As for Speed Deads, I have to agree with Modi in that they are good for him. I felt my form improve drastically when I’d do speed deads with the strain on all the right places and the carryover into the initial pull of my max lifts. But, i used a lower weight closer to 50-60%.
Off topic but:
Is there any place for olympic lifts in a powerlifting scheme and how would you fit that in?
[quote]droshan wrote:
These are all great points…I’m in your ballpark at your max (at about 410) so I know the hunger for the 500lb mark.
As for Speed Deads, I have to agree with Modi in that they are good for him. I felt my form improve drastically when I’d do speed deads with the strain on all the right places and the carryover into the initial pull of my max lifts. But, i used a lower weight closer to 50-60%.
Off topic but:
Is there any place for olympic lifts in a powerlifting scheme and how would you fit that in?[/quote]
I’m going to try some speed pulls on Saturday.
I love your second question because I was wondering the same thing. You might want to start a thread about it though. That title might generate more interest than the title of this thread. Feel free to discuss that in this thread though. I don’t mind.
this is comical and what’s wrong with the internet; the blind leading the blind. form suffering on some lift? easy! do some speedwork! do the lift FASTER. effing clowns. good luck dre. don’t believe everything you read here.