What I’ve noticed watching the videos again is that my back doesn’t round during the 315lb squats. So it definitely had to be strong enough through that range of motion. I certainly believe there is a setup issue that’s never really been a secret, but it seems no matter how I set up I put myself in a position to get rounded. But take a look at the squat video and my back seems to hold up well against the weight.
I’m strong enough to hit the heavy bag, but I suck at punching. I don’t throw straight or turn my hips, I just out wing arm punches. My bagwork won’t improve until I learn how to use my body correctly, then practice a lot.
You have to figure out how to get your body to do what you want. If it’s too hard to do during a deadlift, you need to use Special work.
These were invented for the mid back by a power lifter.
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Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4XZs8GxMf4
This one might be even better:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAzvBxF-M04
Thanks Chris. I watched both and tried to incorporate that mentality into today’s training session. Ive noticed that no matter what, my upper back is rounded even at lighter weights. I talked to a guy who was repping over 4 plates easily and his back was perfectly straight. He told me he never thought about keeping his back straight it just happened naturally. Even when I make a conscious effort to tighten up the lats, brace, and bring my chest up, I can’t keep my upper back straight. Lower back is another story as I think it starts straight and doesn’t change throughout the lift (at submaximal lifts). I did good mornings and it’s pretty obvious that I’m weak at those. I worked up to 185x5 and felt that my form was on the brink of breaking down. What is a good percentage of my back squat to aim for with the good mornings?
Edit: Moving forward I will be incorporating good mornings twice a week along with glute ham raised twice a week. I’ll drop the block pull SLDLs because my upper back rounds for those anyways I might aswell pull conventional and try to get my form right.
I wouldn’t worry too much about what % of your squat you use, just do them with good technique and stay a few reps short of failure. For your upper back, you could try upper back good mornings. There is a video on EliteFTS somewhere, I don’t see it on YouTube so you will have to look for it. Just do them for high reps (like 15+) and make sure to keep your lower back neutral or arched - and braced. Use light weight and a safety squat bar if possible.
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Alright guys I think I may have done my first legitimate rep in a conventional deadlift today. Today I didn’t sit back as much into the deadlift. I’m not sure if that is the difference. I’ve also been doing good mornings at least once a week as well as SLDLs and GHRs, although I’ve got to be more diligent with getting those in. I think my form once again breaks down later on in the set, but I think the very first rep there is literally no change in back position. Whats the verdict guys? Link below:
One more thing, am I dropping my hips too low??
I don’t think that the hip position is an issue, the problem that I see is that your back rounds more and more on each rep. On the first one you are barely rounded but then next two a progressively worse. It looks like you are mainly rounded in you upper back, but you lower back appears rounded as well. It will take time to fix this, one thing I could suggest is to deadlift for singles only. If you were planning to do 5 sets of 3 then do 15 singles with 30-60sec. rest between each one. The problem is that reps make muscles fatigue and cause technique to break down, singles aren’t an effective way to build muscle but you can do that with assistance lifts instead.
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I think you’re right Chris. While my setup isn’t perfect, I think it’s an issue with strength and/or muscle activation. Today I noticed that the mid section of the spinal erectors were sore, something I usually never feel when I deadlift. Mike tuscherer was kind enough to have a look at my form and told me my setup was fine, but the form degraded throughout the lift.
I guess I need to keep the same weight for awhile. I’m finally starting to see that this could take a very long time, and it’s frustrating because I know I can lift the weight easily by yanking it up. I really get tempted to go heavy when I deadlift and it’s something I need to get past. I think part of the issue is that I only deadlift once a week at the moment and feel like I need to go hard that one day. I’m thinking of bumping this up to twice a week while dropping squatting to once a week at a maintenance level.
You make a good point with the singles Chris. I’ll think about it tonight
Did Mike T give you any specific advice?
There’s no point in trying to deadlift heavy right now, fix your technique and you will lift a lot more in a few months. There’s no need to reduce squat volume or frequency, you aren’t going to pull anything too heavy right now anyway so it shouldn’t be a big deal to deadlift twice a week. Try splitting your volume between two sessions, if you don’t have trouble recovering from it then you might be able to add more volume.
He didn’t give me any specific advice, he told me my setup looked fine. He told me that it’s likely a strength/skill issue as my form degrades throughout the set. According to him the weight looked light, but some part of the chain wasn’t strong enough to maintain correct position. Also he wasn’t sure if my weakness was in the hip extensors or back extensors, but in any case train both.
I’d also like to add that I’ve developed a bruise in the palm of my dominant hand. I think I might purchase some straps. Lately I’ve been deadlifting using exclusively mixed grip, as I find it is actually much harder to get properly braced using a mixed grip than double overhand and this problem is magnified at heavier weight. The straps would only be used if I happen to tear a callus or develop some bruising and need some extra volume. Otherwise, I’d go mixed grip. I don’t think I should be using a belt yet, as the weight is pretty submaximal.
You could try hook grip, it would be a lot easier to start now rather than later because you are working with lighter weights. I was trying to swtich to hook grip when I was still under 500 on my conventional pull but it hurt like hell, I did all my warmups hook grip until I couldn’t take it anymore but the heaviest managed was just over 400. It was only when I messed up my back and switched to sumo that I was able to make the switch to hook grip, I was injured so I started back with 275 and the mixed grip on sumo made me feel off balance so hook grip was the obvious choice.
There’s nothing wrong with using straps if your hands are beat up or can’t handle the volume, just don’t do everything with straps and consider extra grip work.
I’ve been thinking about hookgrip. Ive tried it a couple of times and it hurt even at very light weights. What’s your advice for higher rep sets with heavy weight though? Sounds extremely painful, but like you said it would probably be so much more efficient.
I also noticed that pulling with a mixed grip during sumo really throws off my lockout. I feel like I can’t get my shoulders back. Conventional is slightly better, but it definitely still feels awkward.
Your fingers get used to it, in my case it’s only if I try to do too much that it really starts to hurt. And I feel no pain during the set at all. If you’re going to pull hook grip then you are going to have to pull heavy weights with it too, but any time you are doing high reps it would make sense to throw on some straps. At one point I was doing a hypertrophy phase and tried to do everything hook grip, I did something like 405x8 and it felt like my thumbs were going to explode when I put the bar down so I started using straps for work sets. These days I don’t do more than 5 reps on competition lifts and for deadlift variations I pretty much always wear straps. I do some grip work, usually just a couple sets of high rep shrugs but there are other things you can do like heavy static holds with a double overhand grip.
Another thing, make sure you are doing grip properly or it won’t work and can hurt more. When I first tried I only had my index finger over my thumb and it felt like I was going to rip out my thumbnail. There are a bunch of different videos and articles on hook grip, Ben Pollack had something recently on EliteFTS. Not everyone’s hook grip is exactly the same so take the time to figure out what works for you and remember that it will hurt a bit but your thumbs get used to it. It will hurt less than a torn bicep though.
Here’s some motivation for you. He said he wished he had started pulling hook grip earlier because he always had grip issues before that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xquUaDxAAg
I’m definitely tempted to give it a try but I also see lots of guys pulling 700+ mixed grip. Infact for people pulling conventional I almost always see mixed grip or straps rather than hook. I know cailer woolam pulls hook for both sumo and conventional and the guy is a beast. I’ll definitely give it a try next workout and see how it feels.
how do you feel using hook grip for 1rm conventional pulls?
I pulled my first 405lb max with hook grip. Thumb felt fine for that.
, Then I stopped cause hook grip is painful to do for anything that resembles volume and the skin on my thumbs started peeling. It got worse whenever my grip was fatigued from other shit I’ve been doing. Hook-grip for multiple single/doubles with moderate weight was ok as long as I didn’t do something grip-intensive sometime in the last 24-48hr.
That being said, Olympic lifters clean and snatch 300lb+ with the hook grip. I’m think I’m being a massive pussy by saying that hook-grip deadlifts with weights ranging between 315-375lb hurts.
It’s all in the detail.
Some of those Oly bars have beautifully comfortable knurling. Taped thumbs and an Elieko bar is like driving on a cloud.
If you’re using a deadlift bar and bare skin, that’s more like driving a seatless go cart down a rocky mountain-side, with bats screeching in your ears… and goats kicking you in the head as you go by…
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What are your thoughts on potential nerve damage in the thumbs from hook grip?