Deadlift 700x3 Raw

Training Powerlifting
101

[quote]RickJames wrote:
Hold on guys, I said OR, not AND. That means if I can get you to pull 500, then I don’t need to get you to pull triple bodyweight for what I said above to be true. I put the triple bodyweight part in there for the very light guys (again, I really don’t include females in these discussions implicitly; I will state when I include them).

A 132lb guy pulling 500 would be very tough, but the same guy pulling triple bodyweight (396) would be more realistic. And I didn’t say which one I’d get the guy to do. It might be easier to bulk a 140lb guy up to 180lbs and get him to pull 500 instead of triple bodyweight at 140 - it will just depend on the lifter.

Again, nearly every lifter I’f seen (male, of a decent age, no physical handicaps) could get to 500lbs or triple bodyweight with some reasonable training. [/quote]

oooooh…gotcha and AGREE! :slight_smile:

102

[quote]ZEB wrote:
RickJames wrote:

You think. We get “impressed” by football players that are heavy running fast…

I’m sorry maybe I was not as clear as I could have been. Every Football player is timed in the 40. When you have a very large man who can run a very fast 40 more people take notice than when a man of 175lbs. (or less) can do it.

Why do you suppose that is?

Why do you suppose it’s more impressive seeing a 260 pound player running a fast 40 than a 175 pound man?

I’m sure that you have your own thoughts on this.

But…

I think that it’s impressive for the same reason it is impressive to see a 198 pound lifter pull 700, as opposed to a 350 pound man lifting 700 or even 800 pounds.

Try to take a clue from the people that have created and run the sport for years…they do actually know what they’re talking about more than those outside of the sport do.

Yes, very valid point.

They do have “outstanding lifter” trophies!

It Would seem that some on this board would simply give that specific trophy to the biggest heavy weight who lifted the most that day.

“Wow did you see that he pulled 800 pounds.”

Mesmerized by the shear number nothing else matters to them.

But we know better!

(Yes heavy weights are impressive…but there is more to it)

The outstanding lifter award is usually won not by the behemoths. They are usually not the strongest pound for pound no matter what formula that is used!

That the sport of Powerlifting embraces this award (outstanding lifter) should tell everyone who is ONLY impressed with the shear number of pounds lifted that there is more to it…
[/quote]

ZEB, you just made our point and didn’t realize it. It’s easier to achieve what you consider to be impressive, on a pound per pound basis, at the lighter weights. This is empirically proven by the results posted in the various weight classes. Look up meet results at the National level for the big guys, do the division and then do the same for the light guys. It seems you’re still stuck “pound for pound”…

And sticking to the example (ignoring running and jumping) there just aren’t any 150lbs guys pulling 900…yes, that would be MORE impressive but it doesn’t bear out in real life. the bottom line is that impressive “relative to weight ratio” feats of strength are easier and more common at the lighter weight classes…there is absolutely a law of diminishing returns between total bwt and performance.

103

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
the bottom line is that impressive “relative to weight ratio” feats of strength are easier and more common at the lighter weight classes…
[/quote]

My original point was that it is more impressive to see a lighter guy pulling a higher relative weight.

But, again it’s all impressive to me as my deadlift needs work!

:slight_smile:

104

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:

First, I’m no hater - if you make it, god bless you and good luck doing it - one thing we lifters do not have as opposed to catty BB’s who critique each other like two broads talking shit about another’s dress, is that we support each other…b/c in the weights lie the ultimate truth - you either lifted the weight of you didn’t (Well, it used to be like that before these stupid shirts and suits…but you get the point).

So we’re not catty bodybuilders who critique each other’s physiques, we’re catty lifters who critique each other’s gear use, is that it? ok, wanted to make sure i got it straight.

But you’re not a hater. I know that because you stated it so explicitly.

Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in…

I was just pointing out that those factors bear consideration - all lifts are NOT equal. PERIOD. Once again in these forums, reading and comprehension, is f’n fundiminental…our public school tax dollars in evidence here.

[/quote]

From your conciliatory post towards Machine, I take it you’re fairly reasonable (not saying you’re wrong, just saying it was conciliatory, statesman-like, however you wanna phrase it) that being said, you made one comment about how we shouldn’t be catty, and then made SEVERAL comments bashing gear. That has NOTHING to do with reading comprehension.

I made my original post before i read the one where you said lets just agree to disagree. I thought about editing my post, but I stand by my statements. I was probably a little more sarcastic than I needed to be, but I dont see how you can possibly say I lack reading comprehension.

105

[quote]KBCThird wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
KBCThird wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:

First, I’m no hater - if you make it, god bless you and good luck doing it - one thing we lifters do not have as opposed to catty BB’s who critique each other like two broads talking shit about another’s dress, is that we support each other…b/c in the weights lie the ultimate truth - you either lifted the weight of you didn’t (Well, it used to be like that before these stupid shirts and suits…but you get the point).

So we’re not catty bodybuilders who critique each other’s physiques, we’re catty lifters who critique each other’s gear use, is that it? ok, wanted to make sure i got it straight.

But you’re not a hater. I know that because you stated it so explicitly.

Every time I try to get out, they pull me back in…

I was just pointing out that those factors bear consideration - all lifts are NOT equal. PERIOD. Once again in these forums, reading and comprehension, is f’n fundiminental…our public school tax dollars in evidence here.

From your conciliatory post towards Machine, I take it you’re fairly reasonable (not saying you’re wrong, just saying it was conciliatory, statesman-like, however you wanna phrase it) that being said, you made one comment about how we shouldn’t be catty, and then made SEVERAL comments bashing gear. That has NOTHING to do with reading comprehension.

I made my original post before i read the one where you said lets just agree to disagree. I thought about editing my post, but I stand by my statements. I was probably a little more sarcastic than I needed to be, but I dont see how you can possibly say I lack reading comprehension.[/quote]

First, being “catty” is a feminine trait - are you implying I’m feminine? Is that necessary b/c that harkens back to an earlier statememt of mine about needing to put your name next to stuff you post - not some “rasslin” name.

Next, to reply to your point, I think you “misunderstood” me…is that better? Because, as far as I’m concerned, if you’re wearing triple ply gear and competing against another guy with triple ply gear, then I see no issues. But that sir, begs the question, why wear the triple ply gear (for example) at all?

Remove the gear and I bet you the best guy still wins. It’s not a “catty” observation. I’m not implying I’d be elite if they did away with drugs and gear…I’m was attempting to illustrate how I don’t know what “elite” is anymore BECAUSE of the drugs and gear.

However you want to characterize it, the gear is just plain silly and that’s my opinion. If I was being “catty” (I know you’re using my earlier word but still) I’d say something like that guy aint shit w/o the gear. I understand VERY clearly that a guy benching 700 with gear is probably benching 5-6 without and so forth for the squat. And that my friend, is not to be denigrated - not by me or anyone else.

But when guys that can only bench 350 raw (which, by the way, I can close grip on a bad day) claim a 500 bench, if that doesn’t make you understand the silliness of this gear, then you are correct, we can just agree to disagree.

You know something, and I’m guilty of this and Dave Tate has admitted as much in his recent blog about his health and diet - we start identifying ourselves with our size, weight, strength and its very difficult to lose ANY of it. Guys use this gear and start getting attached to the idea that they are squatting x benching x and so forth.

But it has NO credibility outside PL. And if you don’t believe me, attempt to explain to a layperson how you bench 500 at a meet but can only do 350 at the gym??

I’ve got my view point and I understand the “sport” is deeply divided on this issue and others…but my point is no less valid and certainly not “catty”.

At the end of the day, I admire the guy squatting 8 but I’d admire him more for squatting 7 raw. One is an ILLUSION the other is the TRUTH. I’m partial to the TRUTH. As a breeder of gamedogs, those dogs have allowed me to become aquainted with the TRUTH of something, whether it be a dog, a person or, in this case, the illusion of lifting a certain weight.

Having been aquainted with the TRUTH in my life, and yes, having squatted 750 in a double ply suit years ago - I CANNOT with any measure of DIGNITY and bearing for the TRUTH, walk around telling people how I squat 750 - I just can’t explain a double ply squat suit without feeling that I’m lacking credibility.

Am I clear now? You are welcome to disagree - but I trust I’ve made myself clear.

106

First off- that kid ain’t a powerlifter. So 700 for a triple is damn good, period. I don’t care how fat he is. I’ll also give him props for doing that with what appears to be one of those hideous little Valeo belts a and what appear to be olympic lifitng shoes (the anti-deadlift shoe).

Second- to mister-anyone-can-get-a-3xBW-DL-in-2-years-of-training: what’s the secret? I want in! What’s the secret that will take me to a 780 DL in 24 months?

107

[quote]Pinto wrote:
First off- that kid ain’t a powerlifter. So 700 for a triple is damn good, period. I don’t care how fat he is. I’ll also give him props for doing that with what appears to be one of those hideous little Valeo belts a and what appear to be olympic lifitng shoes (the anti-deadlift shoe).

Second- to mister-anyone-can-get-a-3xBW-DL-in-2-years-of-training: what’s the secret? I want in! What’s the secret that will take me to a 780 DL in 24 months? [/quote]

Go back and read my last post or two. It explains your mistake.

108

[quote]Pinto wrote:
First off- that kid ain’t a powerlifter. So 700 for a triple is damn good, period. I don’t care how fat he is. I’ll also give him props for doing that with what appears to be one of those hideous little Valeo belts a and what appear to be olympic lifitng shoes (the anti-deadlift shoe).

Second- to mister-anyone-can-get-a-3xBW-DL-in-2-years-of-training: what’s the secret? I want in! What’s the secret that will take me to a 780 DL in 24 months? [/quote]

He said triple bodyweight in the light classes or 500 pounds.

109

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
RickJames wrote:

Also, to the others, I think Ano just pulled a hair under 900, but I’ll try to look that up. His WPO record is less than 900 I believe, but I’m not sure about his personal best in competition. Magnusson is another one if he hasn’t been mentioned, and Konstantin Konstantinov (sp?) is yet another (947@275, but I guess he’s weak too…frickin’ idiots).

Konstantinovs’ recent 947@275 has got to be the best deadlift ever!! that is an insane fucking weight at 275!

http://www.gometal.com/videot/konstantin_deadlift_430.wmv

Good form? (no irony, serious question!)[/quote]

Think of it this way: it’s form that lets him pull 430kg, which until very recently would have been the absolute deadlift record, at a bodyweight of 125kg. The videos of 900+ and 800+ deadlifts I’ve seen have all involved significant upper back rounding. It looks wrong, I know - it’s against much of what we’re taught about protecting our backs - but it’s right. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I’d say yeah, good form.

110

[quote]bigjoey wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
RickJames wrote:

Also, to the others, I think Ano just pulled a hair under 900, but I’ll try to look that up. His WPO record is less than 900 I believe, but I’m not sure about his personal best in competition. Magnusson is another one if he hasn’t been mentioned, and Konstantin Konstantinov (sp?) is yet another (947@275, but I guess he’s weak too…frickin’ idiots).

Konstantinovs’ recent 947@275 has got to be the best deadlift ever!! that is an insane fucking weight at 275!

www.gometal.com/videot/konstantin_deadlift_430.wmv

Good form? (no irony, serious question!)

Think of it this way: it’s form that lets him pull 430kg, which until very recently would have been the absolute deadlift record, at a bodyweight of 125kg. The videos of 900+ and 800+ deadlifts I’ve seen have all involved significant upper back rounding. It looks wrong, I know - it’s against much of what we’re taught about protecting our backs - but it’s right. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I’d say yeah, good form.[/quote]

I think we are more concerned with low back rounding; I agree with you - nothing wrong with his “form”.

111

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
KBCThird wrote: see earlier posts

First, being “catty” is a feminine trait - are you implying I’m feminine? Is that necessary b/c that harkens back to an earlier statememt of mine about needing to put your name next to stuff you post - not some “rasslin” name.

Next, to reply to your point, I think you “misunderstood” me…is that better? Because, as far as I’m concerned, if you’re wearing triple ply gear and competing against another guy with triple ply gear, then I see no issues. But that sir, begs the question, why wear the triple ply gear (for example) at all?

Remove the gear and I bet you the best guy still wins. It’s not a “catty” observation. I’m not implying I’d be elite if they did away with drugs and gear…I’m was attempting to illustrate how I don’t know what “elite” is anymore BECAUSE of the drugs and gear.

However you want to characterize it, the gear is just plain silly and that’s my opinion. If I was being “catty” (I know you’re using my earlier word but still) I’d say something like that guy aint shit w/o the gear. I understand VERY clearly that a guy benching 700 with gear is probably benching 5-6 without and so forth for the squat. And that my friend, is not to be denigrated - not by me or anyone else.

But when guys that can only bench 350 raw (which, by the way, I can close grip on a bad day) claim a 500 bench, if that doesn’t make you understand the silliness of this gear, then you are correct, we can just agree to disagree.

You know something, and I’m guilty of this and Dave Tate has admitted as much in his recent blog about his health and diet - we start identifying ourselves with our size, weight, strength and its very difficult to lose ANY of it. Guys use this gear and start getting attached to the idea that they are squatting x benching x and so forth.

But it has NO credibility outside PL. And if you don’t believe me, attempt to explain to a layperson how you bench 500 at a meet but can only do 350 at the gym??

I’ve got my view point and I understand the “sport” is deeply divided on this issue and others…but my point is no less valid and certainly not “catty”.

At the end of the day, I admire the guy squatting 8 but I’d admire him more for squatting 7 raw. One is an ILLUSION the other is the TRUTH. I’m partial to the TRUTH. As a breeder of gamedogs, those dogs have allowed me to become aquainted with the TRUTH of something, whether it be a dog, a person or, in this case, the illusion of lifting a certain weight.

Having been aquainted with the TRUTH in my life, and yes, having squatted 750 in a double ply suit years ago - I CANNOT with any measure of DIGNITY and bearing for the TRUTH, walk around telling people how I squat 750 - I just can’t explain a double ply squat suit without feeling that I’m lacking credibility.

Am I clear now? You are welcome to disagree - but I trust I’ve made myself clear.

[/quote]

bullet points cuz my computer shut down on me
-i used the word catty because those were your words. dont read too much into it.

-maybe i misunderstood you, maybe you could’ve been a little more clear … in all likelihood both those cases

-how would i explain a 350 raw and a 500 shirted bench? I wouldnt because
a) i let the context of teh conversation guide me. if im speaking with non powerlifters i give raw numbers. If im speaking with powerlifters, they usually make it clear whether theyre asking about shirted or raw numbers. and

b) It sounds cliched, but I dont lift for others, I lift for myself. I dont go around telling people about my lifts and I dont LIKE talking abotu working out.

-by the way, is your problem with the hypothetical 350 raw/500 in a shirt bencher the fact that he uses a shirt? or that he gets 150 lbs out of it? I read a lot of people who seem to think its ok that their old shirt (and im not saying you at this point, this is more just other stuff i’ve read) gave them, whatever, 25, 30lbs, but to get 150 is outrageous. My question is, whats the magic number thats not ok to get from a shirt? The genie is out of the bottle and if you’re using a shirt you’re using a shirt, having a crappy one doesnt make it “ok”

  • labelling one lift “the truth” and one an “illusion?” Come on, that’s just needlessly provocative. The opposite of the truth is a lie, and you imply that at best geared lifters are deceiving themselves and at worst a bunch of liars. Furthermore, you say that you admire the guy who squats 8 in a suit - not as much as the 7 raw but you have admiration for him. Then you call his lift an illusion. which is it - admiration or an illusion. You can’t possibly be telling us that you admire an illusion, can you?

-“But that sir, begs the question, why wear the triple ply gear (for example) at all?” I preface this by saying that obviously you are free to disagree with what I’m about to say. This answer is in retrospect. I’m not saying I sat down and weighed all this out, but …

I still powerclean, even tho I have no ambitions (right now) of competing in an oly meet. It’s fun. When I first started reading about westside, I was like a kid on christmas with all these new exercises (board presses, etc) they are fun. When somebody tells me they “dont want to bother” with gear, I think that they dont have the passion required to lift in gear.

I work my raw bench, but in order to work my shirted bench I drive to a gym an hour and a half thru rush hour traffic, I spend a great deal of down time while I’m not actually lifting, just helping my partners set their shirts, loading, spotting, whatever. I sacrifice a great deal of time, of money (in the form of lost wages as well as various expenses eg gas, etc) and I go through a lot of, well not pain, but discomfort in order to improve my bench. I do it cuz I love it.

A long time ago I learned how to bench, and I wanted to be strong in that. I learned how to power clean, to deadlift and to lift atlas stones and I wanted to be strong in all of them. And the a very short time ago, I got my first shirt and wanted to be strong in that too. That’s why I lift in gear. To put it another way, why WOULDNT you want to lift in gear, as well as raw? Or perhaps ZEB says it best (although I disagree with most of what he’s posted on this thread, I do agree with this sentiment) when he writes “It’s all good.”

112

I really don?t have the stamina or the desire to debate this; this topic has been debated by countless others and there is no ?right? answer. I happen to believe I am ultimately right but I understand you and others think you?re right. So we are left to agree to disagree. But, since you took the time to post, I?ll offer the courtesy of a reply ? but we have really high-jacked this thread now :slight_smile:

You wrote:

-i used the word catty because those were your words. dont read too much into it.

In reply:

You are correct and I did point out that you were using my own word against me.

You wrote:

-maybe i misunderstood you, maybe you could’ve been a little more clear … in all likelihood both those cases

In reply,

Yes, we could ALWAYS be more clear but this is the internet, not a full time job (at least not for some) and we shouldn?t read posts with the intent of winning or disagreeing on technicality - or, just for the sake of raising disagreement. My points about gear never had anything to do with the direction your posts have now taken - they were not central to what we were discussing prior. But your reply has changed the direction of the topic, and now I adjust and become more clear to your new direction ? fair enough?

You wrote:

-how would i explain a 350 raw and a 500 shirted bench? I wouldnt because
a) i let the context of teh conversation guide me. if im speaking with non powerlifters i give raw numbers. If im speaking with powerlifters, they usually make it clear whether theyre asking about shirted or raw numbers.

In reply,

With or without the gear, the best man wins. Remove the gear, the best man wins. Remove the gear, the totals drop. What is the harm of the totals dropping if it puts everyone on equal ground? I understand how you choose to explain it but it?s still ridiculous. In one case ?you? are lifting the weight, in the next, ?you? are lifting the weight with the help of a suit/shirt. With some of this gear out here now its not much different to me than squatting on the smith machine or doing a leg press?but I digress.

You wrote:

b) It sounds cliched, but I dont lift for others, I lift for myself. I dont go around telling people about my lifts and I dont LIKE talking abotu working out.

In reply,

Superfluous ? it?s not the point and you know it. I don?t go around discussing it either because a) it?s not relevant to the non-lifting population and b) because it?s just not relevant :slight_smile: And I too “lift for myself”. I understood from the beginning that I could not earn a living powerlifting - but it did allow me to continue to stay in shape and satisfy my competitive flames. That settled, what else is there to lift for? There are too many factors in the "sport’ beyond your control to worry in terms of “winning” or “losing”. The most you can hope for is improvement and if you win along the way - great. Personally, I like to win - but I’d also like to compete on even ground. And remember, this isn’t a stupid “monolift” debate -we’re talking significant differences in weight lifted with different types of gear.

You wrote:

-by the way, is your problem with the hypothetical 350 raw/500 in a shirt bencher the fact that he uses a shirt? or that he gets 150 lbs out of it? I read a lot of people who seem to think its ok that their old shirt (and im not saying you at this point, this is more just other stuff i’ve read) gave them, whatever, 25, 30lbs, but to get 150 is outrageous. My question is, whats the magic number thats not ok to get from a shirt? The genie is out of the bottle and if you’re using a shirt you’re using a shirt, having a crappy one doesnt make it “ok”

In reply,

Well, now that I think of it, the answer is yes. ?Sport? is supposed to be waged upon even ground. So yes, I guess I do have a problem with those that ?get more? from their suit/shirt than the other guy. It is no longer sport, it is the ?sport of using the equipment? ? not ?lifting weights?. It would be akin to a basketball game where one team used a ten foot rim and the other a nine; one batter a corked bat the other not - shall I continue? This is not just my opinion by the way, its one of the biggest reasons why PL will never be an Olympic sport - and why the hell shouldn’t PL be an olympic sport!!??. And without the suits and various feds, PL probably could have been an Olympic sport long ago. Also in reply, I would ask of you, if you removed ALL equipment, how does that negatively impact the integrity of the ?sport?? In one case, you have advantages ? the other, all advantages are removed. And that would pose what kind of problem??

You wrote:

  • labelling one lift “the truth” and one an “illusion?” Come on, that’s just needlessly provocative. The opposite of the truth is a lie, and you imply that at best geared lifters are deceiving themselves and at worst a bunch of liars.

In reply,

That?s not provocative at all. It may not be a ?lie? per se but in one case you are lifting the weight and in another case you are not. Is that the ?truth? to you? And yes, I?d argue that “most” geared lifters are deceiving themselves. What other reason does the gear exist? The answer is simply to lift bigger numbers. Or would you argue, foolishly, that double, triple ply suits/shirts are necessary to protect against injury? Now, before you misunderstand me any further, I offer a point of clarity; I don?t fault the geared lifter for using gear because under the current rules the use of gear is necessary to compete fairly against those that do wear the gear and at a high level. Sure, you can compete raw but that?s meaningless unless it?s a raw meet ? not just the raw division where there are not even enough raw lifters to fill all the classes or even the flights. So I don?t fault the lifter ? I fault the so-called ?sport? - so I guess the lifter is not propogating a “lie” - the sport is.

You wrote:

-“But that sir, begs the question, why wear the triple ply gear (for example) at all?” I preface this by saying that obviously you are free to disagree with what I’m about to say. This answer is in retrospect. I’m not saying I sat down and weighed all this out, but … I still powerclean, even tho I have no ambitions (right now) of competing in an oly meet. It’s fun. When I first started reading about westside, I was like a kid on christmas with all these new exercises (board presses, etc) they are fun. When somebody tells me they “dont want to bother” with gear, I think that they dont have the passion required to lift in gear.

In reply,

That?s a bunch of bullshit - please excuse the harshness of the reply, but I do suggest you ponder it further. The dedication is the same. You don?t train any harder because you wear gear. Shit man, if I planned on entering a contest, I?d be preparing in gear too. But it doesn?t change the intensity of my workouts or the ?passion?. I may make adjustments to my routine because of the gear but nothing else changes - intensity, volume, etc. In fact, for me personally, my ?passion? has increased and my intensity has increased since I became more concerned with what I could ?really? lift. For example, I squatted 750 in a double ply years ago. At that time, I truly wonder if I could manage 600 raw. I think I could, but all my training at the higher weights at least had me with my suit bottoms on - even my DE squat day. Bro, I could DE box squat 495 with great speed and I’m truly left wondering if I could nail 6 raw. Was I training harder or with more passion? Heck no! It?s harder to work up to those weights without gear. Your point is simply false and no point at all.

You wrote:

I work my raw bench, but in order to work my shirted bench I drive to a gym an hour and a half thru rush hour traffic, I spend a great deal of down time while I’m not actually lifting, just helping my partners set their shirts, loading, spotting, whatever. I sacrifice a great deal of time, of money (in the form of lost wages as well as various expenses eg gas, etc) and I go through a lot of, well not pain, but discomfort in order to improve my bench. I do it cuz I love it.

In reply,

Ninja Please! And your point is what? I commute from S. Jersey to Jersey City, NJ every day. 2 hours up and 2 hours back - 12 hour work day. On top of that, I train my normal WSB split (S, M, W & F) ? without the gear, by myself, in my garage gym. My volume is higher than ever. What is your point? That your desire to wear a shirt somehow makes your commitment larger? Your workouts harder? Exactly what the heck is your point! ( and I don?t intend to be disrespectful ? this is an ?incredulous? tone and one of disbelief ? in other words, what the heck is your point!)

You wrote:

A long time ago I learned how to bench, and I wanted to be strong in that. I learned how to power clean, to deadlift and to lift atlas stones and I wanted to be strong in all of them. And the a very short time ago, I got my first shirt and wanted to be strong in that too. That’s why I lift in gear.[/quote]

In reply,

Again, I don?t know that you have a point there. You can be ?strong? without a shirt. Don?t think I?m advocating you and others throw away your shirt. I believe you should use whatever gear is allowed in the federation you compete in. When and if I get the urge to compete (and I will), I will wear gear unless the raw organizations gain more popularity and a wider following in terms of the number and geographical locations of meets. However, my main goal is to continue gaining raw strength. I?m advocating that the ?sport? of PL do away with the gear. I say let a guy now benching 8, 9 whatever, set the standard at 6 or 7 or whatever it may be and let everyone else fall behind in line. And by the way, have you actually witnessed some of those so called WR attempts? Believe you me, if you or I benched/squatting our measley numbers in the manner these WR attempts are peformed, you’d be blinded by the red lights. Remove the gear and the sport becomes a ?fair? test of who is stronger. And I don?t buy the injury stuff. Guys get injured attempting weights they can?t handle. If your shoulders won?t allow you to bench x, well then you CAN?T bench x - you can bench y. You can only bench x in a shirt.

So you see, I?m disappointed we are not a ?sport? because of the gear ? yes, because some guy gets 200 from his shirt and another might get 50 ? that sir, is not ?sport?. And it has no relation to the truth. And I?d feel no different if I were the guy getting 200, or if I was on the team playing on the nine foot rim.

Although you may ultimately disagree, I hope you understand my point a bit better. And by the way, you may not be able to see the forest thru the trees. Before I had to train alone, I was training with the gear etc and these thoughts did not trouble me. It took my getting out of that environment for me to arrive at these opinions.

113

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
bigjoey wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
RickJames wrote:

Also, to the others, I think Ano just pulled a hair under 900, but I’ll try to look that up. His WPO record is less than 900 I believe, but I’m not sure about his personal best in competition. Magnusson is another one if he hasn’t been mentioned, and Konstantin Konstantinov (sp?) is yet another (947@275, but I guess he’s weak too…frickin’ idiots).

Konstantinovs’ recent 947@275 has got to be the best deadlift ever!! that is an insane fucking weight at 275!

www.gometal.com/videot/konstantin_deadlift_430.wmv

Good form? (no irony, serious question!)

Think of it this way: it’s form that lets him pull 430kg, which until very recently would have been the absolute deadlift record, at a bodyweight of 125kg. The videos of 900+ and 800+ deadlifts I’ve seen have all involved significant upper back rounding. It looks wrong, I know - it’s against much of what we’re taught about protecting our backs - but it’s right. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I’d say yeah, good form.

I think we are more concerned with low back rounding; I agree with you - nothing wrong with his “form”.
[/quote]

As I see it it’s not just the rounding of his upper back, which wasn’t my concern, it’s like he’s bending his whole back like a cat. How does he manage to tighten up for that weight with that setup. It looks like an “all back” lift. Nonetheless great accomplishment.

114

[quote]KBCThird wrote:

and I dont LIKE talking about working out.

[/quote]

Excuse the side question but, Why the hell are you posting on this forum?

115

Hey, I didn’t know gear was such an issue in powerlifting.

116

C’mon the guy is probably built to deadlift… this is hardly impressive. If I weighed what he did I’d be deadlifting 900 easy…

117

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
bigjoey wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
RickJames wrote:

Also, to the others, I think Ano just pulled a hair under 900, but I’ll try to look that up. His WPO record is less than 900 I believe, but I’m not sure about his personal best in competition. Magnusson is another one if he hasn’t been mentioned, and Konstantin Konstantinov (sp?) is yet another (947@275, but I guess he’s weak too…frickin’ idiots).

Konstantinovs’ recent 947@275 has got to be the best deadlift ever!! that is an insane fucking weight at 275!

www.gometal.com/videot/konstantin_deadlift_430.wmv

Good form? (no irony, serious question!)

Think of it this way: it’s form that lets him pull 430kg, which until very recently would have been the absolute deadlift record, at a bodyweight of 125kg. The videos of 900+ and 800+ deadlifts I’ve seen have all involved significant upper back rounding. It looks wrong, I know - it’s against much of what we’re taught about protecting our backs - but it’s right. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I’d say yeah, good form.

I think we are more concerned with low back rounding; I agree with you - nothing wrong with his “form”.

As I see it it’s not just the rounding of his upper back, which wasn’t my concern, it’s like he’s bending his whole back like a cat. How does he manage to tighten up for that weight with that setup. It looks like an “all back” lift. Nonetheless great accomplishment.[/quote]

man, I always thought it imperative that you were supposed to keep both upper back and lower back flat or with small arch. I always struggle anyway with finding a good deadlift groove that feels right to begin with but now I am even more confused.

118

[quote]BoxBabaX wrote:
KBCThird wrote:

and I dont LIKE talking about working out.

Excuse the side question but, Why the hell are you posting on this forum? [/quote]

hahaha, fair point. heres the short answer since I’ve already typed way too much today. The girl asked me about the strongman contest and my response was something along the lines of “No, you wouldn’t really be interested in it, and it would make me sound like a meathead, so I’d rather talk about something else.” I dont think this bores anyone here, nor do I think that we sound like meatheads (well, most of us, anyways)

In addition, have you ever had someone - maybe a friend of a friend - talk to you about working out? Jeez how stultifying.

The conversation usually contains such gems as “yeah, I really like to [insert inane exercise here] to really isolate my biceps” and
“yeah, I would be bigger, I’m just small-framed/injured/a hardgainer/not built to grow/insert other lameass excuse here.” I wanted to scream I DONT CARE!! I do consider “talking about working out” to be different from “discussing training”

hope that clears it up.

119

[quote]RickJames wrote:
Hey, I didn’t know gear was such an issue in powerlifting.
[/quote]

Gear is a HUGE issue in powerlifting and its why the “sport” is largely discredited in the strength community and its probably the biggest hurdle to gaining olympic status. There are other issues to this such as drug testing, disparity of technical rules and what constitutes a good lift, the various federations and of course, supportive gear.

120

[quote]eisenaffe wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
bigjoey wrote:
eisenaffe wrote:
TTewell342 wrote:
RickJames wrote:

Also, to the others, I think Ano just pulled a hair under 900, but I’ll try to look that up. His WPO record is less than 900 I believe, but I’m not sure about his personal best in competition. Magnusson is another one if he hasn’t been mentioned, and Konstantin Konstantinov (sp?) is yet another (947@275, but I guess he’s weak too…frickin’ idiots).

Konstantinovs’ recent 947@275 has got to be the best deadlift ever!! that is an insane fucking weight at 275!

www.gometal.com/videot/konstantin_deadlift_430.wmv

Good form? (no irony, serious question!)

Think of it this way: it’s form that lets him pull 430kg, which until very recently would have been the absolute deadlift record, at a bodyweight of 125kg. The videos of 900+ and 800+ deadlifts I’ve seen have all involved significant upper back rounding. It looks wrong, I know - it’s against much of what we’re taught about protecting our backs - but it’s right. Anyone can feel free to correct me on this, but I’d say yeah, good form.

I think we are more concerned with low back rounding; I agree with you - nothing wrong with his “form”.

As I see it it’s not just the rounding of his upper back, which wasn’t my concern, it’s like he’s bending his whole back like a cat. How does he manage to tighten up for that weight with that setup. It looks like an “all back” lift. Nonetheless great accomplishment.[/quote]

Well, it appears from the pic that he is “relatively” tall - not necessarily a bad thing for DL if his arms are long…but yes, he does appear to have a significant amount of rounding but his lower back does stay rather flat. He also has his legs into the lift so that would tell me its not an “all back lift”. And conventional pulling as opposed to sumo will put you in a more prone position in terms of your back position.