Deadlift 700x3 Raw

Training Powerlifting
61

[quote]bigjoey wrote:
ZEB wrote:
bigjoey wrote:
koreansuperman wrote:
What’s more impressive…someone who weighs 318 and deadlifts 700 or someone who weighs 175lb and deadlifts 500lb?

Answer: Someone who weighs 318 and deadlifts 700. Weight divisions are for sports so that people don’t have to be bohemoths to compete - in the real world, noone cares how many times your bodyweight you can lift or what your wilkes formula is.

The guy pulling 700lbs is stronger than the guy pulling 500lbs to the tune of 200lbs, period. Ask yourself this: could the guy who weights 175lbs and pulls 500lbs now ever put on enough muscle to pull 700lbs? I would say quite probably not.

Then the 175 pound sprinter is more impressive running a faster 100 meters than the 250 pound guy. Even if he only runs it a half second faster.

True?

Firstly, there is a much bigger difference between a 200lbs difference in the deadlift and a half a second difference in a 100 meter race. Secondly, the 250 pound guy could probably quite easily, if he chose to do so, lose enough weight to make up that half a second.A more valid comparison would be if the 175lbs guy was running it in 10 seconds and the 250lbs guy (or 320lbs guy) was running it in 13 or 14 seconds, and in that case then yes, the 175lbs guy is more impressive, sorry. [/quote]

The point I was trying to make is that size and weight do indeed matter. You can play with the 100 meter dash numbers all you want. But the fact is when a very big man is also very fast, that’s very impressive. In fact so much so that sometimes they pay them lots of money to play Football at the pro level.

They don’t pay the small guys the big bucks as a rule.

So, size and weight do in fact matter with everything.

Events of any nature have to be judged by the stats of the specific individual who is performing them. Anyone who thinks otherwise is living in la la land.

That’s why Olympic lifting, Powerlifting and combat sports have weight classes. The larger man is supposed to be stronger than the smaller man. Very simple.

It can be a 100 meter dash as my example above demonstrates. Or, it can be someone dunking a Basketball. If a man 7’ tall dunks it, well that’s cool. But if a guy who is 5’ 9" dunks it, that’s just flat out more impressive.

When a man who weighs 317 deadlifts 700 for 3 reps that’s impressive, as I have repeatedly stated. But when a man who weighs in the 190’s deadlifts 700 well that’s just more impressive!

62

Body Guard, I won’t even address how you went off when I said MAYBE it was your standarads.

I won’t even address how you pretend you know who I am from simply a few posts you have read on this board.

I won’t even address how you appear to be getting really heated about this discussion.

The only thing I will say is that I think it’s clear you are one of those anti-drug, “I’m drug free” guys and hates people stronger than him because they “use drugs”.

Open your eyes man, most of powerlifting is using drugs. If you want to be drug free, more power to you. But don’t go around proclaiming your choice as if you are somehow better than someone who chooses to use drugs.

p.s.

A 300 lb. PC isn’t all that great. There’s teenagers that do more than that and then jerk it overhead.

63

[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
Body Guard, I won’t even address how you went off when I said MAYBE it was your standarads.

I won’t even address how you pretend you know who I am from simply a few posts you have read on this board.

I won’t even address how you appear to be getting really heated about this discussion.

The only thing I will say is that I think it’s clear you are one of those anti-drug, “I’m drug free” guys and hates people stronger than him because they “use drugs”.

Open your eyes man, most of powerlifting is using drugs. If you want to be drug free, more power to you. But don’t go around proclaiming your choice as if you are somehow better than someone who chooses to use drugs.

p.s.

A 300 lb. PC isn’t all that great. There’s teenagers that do more than that and then jerk it overhead.[/quote]

Nah, I’m not heated - I just remember your false modesty and it cracks me up. One of your last little tid bits was something about a 500lb squat not being all that special. LOL.

Anyway, I could care less about drugs…but I DO believe it has ABSOLUTE bearing on a lifting accomplishment. In other words, I used it to qualify MY lifts - at 41, with an assist from drugs, I could certainly manage more. YOU are so quick to talk about how impressive it is for a lighter guy to lift heavier weight, but you fail to see the same comparison among “aided” and drug free athletes? LOL. Silly dude. Some of my best friends take drugs. I don’t look at their accomplishments any less - I DO know its not as easy as an injection and poof! Gains!

And I don’t think I’m “better” than anyone. I do know perfectly where I stand - at 41 AND drug free - I’m pretty fucking strong. But I’m also HUMBLE enough to know when someone has done something impressive, whether it be on drugs, off, with equipment, or without. But I assure you, I know MY place.

There are two kinds of people I meet in the gym you remind me of - those that denigrate big lifts and those that “poo poo” them as if they are insignificant. Your comment that 700x3 is not world class falls into the latter category and is simply not supported by the thousands of documented DL’s across weight classes.

Anyway young buck, I’m glad we got my standards thing out of the way - I’ll race you to 700 - but you have to be able to make the lift again when you’re 41, work full time, commute, etc.

Bad news for you though; pulled 675 in the rack from my knees and I can always pull more at a meet from the ground.

Anyway, good luck with your quest for 700 - at your bwt. in particular, it will be a truly impressive lift. I just hope some dickhead doesn’t come along to tell you about the guy he knows that is lighter than you that can do more lolololol…or that your lift is NOT world class. If you pull 7 at 220 - you’re knocking on world class door steps.

And by the way, I stopped measuring my “dick” long ago against PL BECAUSE of the drugs, the suits, etc. I just came to the realization that chasing “elite” - as was my goal - was illusory when the playing field was not equal. Is it fair to compare a drug free lifter to an assisted one? How about a single ply bench shirt to a triple ply - same for suits…what about feds with relaxed lifting rules? (seen a guy on video just today “squat” 750 - he didn’t come near to breaking parallel but good lift anyway). I can go on and on but don’t think for a second I decide what is strong or not strong by PL alone. But for a PL lift, as the DL IS, I think its hard to ignore the empirical data of documented lifts.

64

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Nah, I’m not heated - I just remember your false modesty and it cracks me up. One of your last little tid bits was something about a 500lb squat not being all that special. LOL.[/quote]

A 500 lb. geared squat is definitely not special. A 500 lb. raw squat is good, but definitely not special. Compared to oridnary lifters in the gym it is very rare, but I don’t compare myself to those people.

[quote]
Anyway, I could care less about drugs…but I DO believe it has ABSOLUTE bearing on a lifting accomplishment. In other words, I used it to qualify MY lifts - at 41, with an assist from drugs, I could certainly manage more.[/quote]

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

I am? Where? Did you even read what I wrote in the beginning on this thread.

How many times can you say your age and drug-free? Seriously, it was old before it started.

[quote]
Anyway young buck, I’m glad we got my standards thing out of the way - I’ll race you to 700 - but you have to be able to make the lift again when you’re 41, work full time, commute, etc.[/quote]

Again with the AGE card. What do you want, a pat on the back?

[quote]
Bad news for you though; pulled 675 in the rack from my knees and I can always pull more at a meet from the ground.[/quote]

Interestingly enough, I pulled 675 from the rack at knee height when I was only deadlifting low 500’s from the floor. So this is not bad news. My lockout is my strength.

Do you mean to say you pull more from the ground at a meet than you do from the rack at knee height? If so, are you using sumo stance? Are you in gear? Because if you want to race, my lift is in belt only.

[quote]
Anyway, good luck with your quest for 700 - at your bwt. in particular, it will be a truly impressive lift.[/quote]

I agree. I think 3x bodyweight for me at 233, a 700 lb. deadlift will be impressive and I’ll be satisfied.

[quote]
If you pull 7 at 220 - you’re knocking on world class door steps.[/quote]

I’m starting to think you can’t read. I’m not 220. Nor will I be when I pull 700.

65

[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Nah, I’m not heated - I just remember your false modesty and it cracks me up. One of your last little tid bits was something about a 500lb squat not being all that special. LOL.

A 500 lb. geared squat is definitely not special. A 500 lb. raw squat is good, but definitely not special. Compared to oridnary lifters in the gym it is very rare, but I don’t compare myself to those people.

Anyway, I could care less about drugs…but I DO believe it has ABSOLUTE bearing on a lifting accomplishment. In other words, I used it to qualify MY lifts - at 41, with an assist from drugs, I could certainly manage more.

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

YOU are so quick to talk about how impressive it is for a lighter guy to lift heavier weight

I am? Where? Did you even read what I wrote in the beginning on this thread.

I do know perfectly where I stand - at 41 AND drug free - I’m pretty fucking strong.

How many times can you say your age and drug-free? Seriously, it was old before it started.

Anyway young buck, I’m glad we got my standards thing out of the way - I’ll race you to 700 - but you have to be able to make the lift again when you’re 41, work full time, commute, etc.

Again with the AGE card. What do you want, a pat on the back?

Bad news for you though; pulled 675 in the rack from my knees and I can always pull more at a meet from the ground.

Interestingly enough, I pulled 675 from the rack at knee height when I was only deadlifting low 500’s from the floor. So this is not bad news. My lockout is my strength.

Do you mean to say you pull more from the ground at a meet than you do from the rack at knee height? If so, are you using sumo stance? Are you in gear? Because if you want to race, my lift is in belt only.

Anyway, good luck with your quest for 700 - at your bwt. in particular, it will be a truly impressive lift.

I agree. I think 3x bodyweight for me at 233, a 700 lb. deadlift will be impressive and I’ll be satisfied.

If you pull 7 at 220 - you’re knocking on world class door steps.

I’m starting to think you can’t read. I’m not 220. Nor will I be when I pull 700.[/quote]

Uh, last post we weren’t talking geared squat - the thread was about a 500lb squat with belt…you want me to go find it so you can eat your words? LOL gear for a deadlift? No sumo and No gear other than a belt. I haven’t been able to pull sumo in correct position since my neck surgery. And for whatever reason, I can pull more from the floor than from the knees which is my sticking point. And finally, (you’re exhausting with your nit picking - the point here is your nonsense about what a big lift is and isn’t) even at 233 or whatever, a 700lb DL is up there for reasons I already stated and won’t again repeat. You go read and instead of nitpicking, why don’t you defend your nonsense about 700x3…or is it buried there somewhere with a 300 PC by a high schooler being nothing special - just common place in AZ world.

66

[quote]MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.[/quote]

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

67

[quote]ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

[/quote]

No drugs at 40= is very impressive, especially if you were always drug free.

700 is big weight for anyone at any weight. We can nit pick about world class, but I consider it impressive.

I call 800 world class in the ehavier categories. Many world class lifters pull in the 700s. It’s just that they squat a ton and bench a ton. A guy like Mark Bartley squats 1100, benches in the 700s and deads in the 700s.

Powerlifting is about the total, remember. but for argument’s sake I’ll say 700 in the dead is great in the heavier classes and say 800 is world class.

How I rate things is this way. You bench 300 raw, squat and dead 500 with a belt, you’re very strong in the real world. 400 and 600 s are freaky. Gear included. 700,500,700 is unreal. Then you have different levles of unreal.

Compared to regular gym guy, even a 600 squat with gear is something. Or you can just look at the PLUSA top 100 list. You make that and you’re a player.

68

Guys, I apologize for hijacking this thread - it aint about me but I’m sick and tired of guys coming here and denigrating lifts like their common place and this guy is now a 3x offender.

First, it was a 500 squat was nothing special (even without gear) to which I jumped into the foray b/c I know plenty of guys squatting 7’s with gear that would have a hard time doing a legal 500 with just a belt.

Second, he was talking shit to someone about how a 300 PC at the high school level was no big deal - as if it was commonplace. LOL I can’t even PC 300 and I’ve pulled in the 6’s and squatted in the 7’s. I think its a fact that a high school kid PC 300 is at the upper end - not b/c I can’t do it, but because I know what real people do and don’t do.

Now he’s here jerking us all off about how 700x3 is o.k., but not world class. And to the last poster, I don’t take exception to the 800 world class comment but remember, at 700x3 he is knocking on the door and would definitely be in the mid 7’s. AZ then injects that PL is not the measuring stick upon which all are judged - he had the audacity to spew out something about WSM. Funny as fuck though, I was just lying on the couch and caught a DL heat. Guy that won the event finished at 750! Fucking Precious! LMFAO. No one else in the heat could pull the 750. The guy that pulled it hitched it repeatedly and badly.

Now don’t get me wrong. When this kid posted about how he just pulled 6 or so recently, I was in his corner in spite of his past transgressions. After all, people lie, not the weight. But like I said before, I’m tired of these cats living in bizarro world populated by this aint shit and that aint special blah blah blah.

He can attempt to attack me all day long about this nonsense, but when we go to the stats on WSM and PL, he can’t counter. And I’m still waiting to see ALL those high school kids PC 300. And I’ve been to dozens of gyms in dozens of states and I’ve yet to see 500lb squats that are commonplace. Even hardcore BB gyms, I see the leg press loaded up, but not the BB.

It’s just annoying to read this crap mixed in with the great info here.

I’ll now return you to your regularly scheduled thread lololol. Someone please send AZ the top 50 for DL in the 220’s, 242’s, 275’s and 308’s. And then we can start looking up the WSM results. It’ll be an eye opener.

69

[quote]tom63 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

No drugs at 40= is very impressive, especially if you were always drug free.

700 is big weight for anyone at any weight. We can nit pick about world class, but I consider it impressive.

I call 800 world class in the ehavier categories. Many world class lifters pull in the 700s. It’s just that they squat a ton and bench a ton. A guy like Mark Bartley squats 1100, benches in the 700s and deads in the 700s.

Powerlifting is about the total, remember. but for argument’s sake I’ll say 700 in the dead is great in the heavier classes and say 800 is world class.

How I rate things is this way. You bench 300 raw, squat and dead 500 with a belt, you’re very strong in the real world. 400 and 600 s are freaky. Gear included. 700,500,700 is unreal. Then you have different levles of unreal.

Compared to regular gym guy, even a 600 squat with gear is something. Or you can just look at the PLUSA top 100 list. You make that and you’re a player.[/quote]

One last point to the above; the DL is the last bastion of true lifting because there is no gear out there to help appreciably with the weight. So, I’m a little unenthused with guys BP and Squats these days. Yeah, guys are moving some serious weight, but I’m more interested in what you can move without your shirt. The guys that are benching in the 6’s and 7’s sans shirt are monsters. Throw away the damn shirts - but it will never happen. Same with squat suits. Something is seriously wrong when you’re pulling 6’s and squatting 8’s or better. The disparity between the DL and the squat is a tell tale sign to me - I do understand that certain people are made to squat or deadlift - leverage wise, but almost across the board the disparity between the two says one thing to me - SQUAT SUIT. Anyway, this is an old old argument that won’t be resolved.

But you want to know when I got a wild hair up my ass and wondered what the hell am I chasing? (I was chasing “elite” - my only goal since I started the “sport”). I was reading an article about a guy on Elite Fitness (before anyone thinks I’m bashing, I have loads of respect for Louie, Tate, et al. Those guys do what they speak and give of themselves freely - if you need to purchase something THEY deserve your money). Anyway, I’m reading this article by some kid that is a “500lb bench presser”. I’m sitting there wistfully with my long arms thinking “elite” would be in the fucking bag if I could hit 500. Well, I’m reading and I get to the part where the kid’s raw max is 350…LOL, I can bench 350 on a bad day, after a ME bench day raw. Now, I’m not taking anything from this kid - he competes in feds that allow this gear but you know what…

If I need a shirt to add 150lbs to my bench so I can claim “elite” status and tell a bunch of people that I bench 500 - fuck it.

Anyway, when you mentioned those numbers, and I don’t take exception to how you characterize those numbers, it just brought back that memory of that article and the beginning of some clarity on my part.

70

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
tom63 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

How I look at it, is take one class lower due tot he gear. You total master with pimped out gear, you’re probably a class one in the old days.

You total elite +100, you’re probably elite.

In the old days of plusa, there were about at most ten elite lifters in a class. I won’t get into drugs, but I think the new gear is very resonsible.

I hit a class one in 88 with the old cheap ass gear. I hope to hit a masters, then elite witht he new super pimped gear. I don’t fool myself and compare now to then. An elite total witht eh new stuff was probably masters without. But that’s still strong in the real world.

Personally, I like gear. It gives me a challenge to master something new. It also helps me to still do this stuff at 42 and many injuries.

I find it funny about the 350 raw max, because I’m approaching that. I figured when I can hit that, 500 with a shirt would be close.

Iunderstand why guys hate it, but for fellas like me, it serves a purpose. I won’t say my shirt 500 is better than a raw 500. But my raw 350 is still pretty strong in the real world.

No drugs at 40= is very impressive, especially if you were always drug free.

700 is big weight for anyone at any weight. We can nit pick about world class, but I consider it impressive.

I call 800 world class in the ehavier categories. Many world class lifters pull in the 700s. It’s just that they squat a ton and bench a ton. A guy like Mark Bartley squats 1100, benches in the 700s and deads in the 700s.

Powerlifting is about the total, remember. but for argument’s sake I’ll say 700 in the dead is great in the heavier classes and say 800 is world class.

How I rate things is this way. You bench 300 raw, squat and dead 500 with a belt, you’re very strong in the real world. 400 and 600 s are freaky. Gear included. 700,500,700 is unreal. Then you have different levles of unreal.

Compared to regular gym guy, even a 600 squat with gear is something. Or you can just look at the PLUSA top 100 list. You make that and you’re a player.

One last point to the above; the DL is the last bastion of true lifting because there is no gear out there to help appreciably with the weight. So, I’m a little unenthused with guys BP and Squats these days. Yeah, guys are moving some serious weight, but I’m more interested in what you can move without your shirt. The guys that are benching in the 6’s and 7’s sans shirt are monsters. Throw away the damn shirts - but it will never happen. Same with squat suits. Something is seriously wrong when you’re pulling 6’s and squatting 8’s or better. The disparity between the DL and the squat is a tell tale sign to me - I do understand that certain people are made to squat or deadlift - leverage wise, but almost across the board the disparity between the two says one thing to me - SQUAT SUIT. Anyway, this is an old old argument that won’t be resolved.

But you want to know when I got a wild hair up my ass and wondered what the hell am I chasing? (I was chasing “elite” - my only goal since I started the “sport”). I was reading an article about a guy on Elite Fitness (before anyone thinks I’m bashing, I have loads of respect for Louie, Tate, et al. Those guys do what they speak and give of themselves freely - if you need to purchase something THEY deserve your money). Anyway, I’m reading this article by some kid that is a “500lb bench presser”. I’m sitting there wistfully with my long arms thinking “elite” would be in the fucking bag if I could hit 500. Well, I’m reading and I get to the part where the kid’s raw max is 350…LOL, I can bench 350 on a bad day, after a ME bench day raw. Now, I’m not taking anything from this kid - he competes in feds that allow this gear but you know what…

If I need a shirt to add 150lbs to my bench so I can claim “elite” status and tell a bunch of people that I bench 500 - fuck it.

Anyway, when you mentioned those numbers, and I don’t take exception to how you characterize those numbers, it just brought back that memory of that article and the beginning of some clarity on my part.

[/quote]

71

[quote]tom63 wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

No drugs at 40= is very impressive, especially if you were always drug free.

700 is big weight for anyone at any weight. We can nit pick about world class, but I consider it impressive.

I call 800 world class in the ehavier categories. Many world class lifters pull in the 700s. It’s just that they squat a ton and bench a ton. A guy like Mark Bartley squats 1100, benches in the 700s and deads in the 700s.

Powerlifting is about the total, remember. but for argument’s sake I’ll say 700 in the dead is great in the heavier classes and say 800 is world class.

How I rate things is this way. You bench 300 raw, squat and dead 500 with a belt, you’re very strong in the real world. 400 and 600 s are freaky. Gear included. 700,500,700 is unreal. Then you have different levles of unreal.

Compared to regular gym guy, even a 600 squat with gear is something. Or you can just look at the PLUSA top 100 list. You make that and you’re a player.[/quote]

Very good reasoning!

72

I agree with everything tom63 wrote. I think he has his head on straight, unlike BodyGuard.

It’s obvious to anyone that Body Guard has some personal vendetta or something against me and will continue to spread bullshit. It appears his goal is to miscontrue past posts I have made in attempt to discredit my reputation and concerning my beliefs on what is considered world class.

I can’t argue against someone so stupid and blind that he can’t even read what I wrote.

He says I said “a 500 lb. squat is commonplace”.

Not true.

He says I said “a 700x3 deadlift is ok”.

Not true.

Sorry man, but I have to “nitpick”, as you say, when you have no ability to read what I write.

I’m done responding to you.

p.s. don’t call me “kid”. you might have 16 years on me, but i’m an adult and if you saw me in person, you’d give me the respect. and i’d give you yours. don’t try to be some tough internet guy, b/c that’s how you’re coming off when you throw the word “kid” out there, especially since I’m 25.

73

[quote]ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.
[/quote]

Of course all those matter ZEB, nobody is debating that.

I just don’t care. I don’t want to hear about it. And he doesn’t need to throw that out there when nobody is asking.

When someone asks you, “what do you squat?” do you say “I squat 400 AND I’m 40 years old AND I’m drug free”.

The only reason you would is to make yourself feel better or give excuses about how much you COULD be doing, if only you were younger and on some drugs.

74

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Now he’s here jerking us all off about how 700x3 is o.k., but not world class. And to the last poster, I don’t take exception to the 800 world class comment but remember, at 700x3 he is knocking on the door and would definitely be in the mid 7’s. [/quote]

I had to quote the best part.

I never said “700x3 is ‘ok’.” I think it’s pretty freaking impressive. Again, I just don’t think it is world class.

Also, you have no idea about what is max is. A 700x3 deadlift doesn’t always equate to a mid 700 max and you certainly can’t say it would “definitely be in the mid 7’s”. For all we know, his max is 735 or 740.

75

[quote]tom63 wrote:

Tom, I didn’t quote you cause it was getting long. But I know where you’re coming from and I agree and disagree.

I just can’t help but to wonder what PL could be without the gear, the competing feds, the different rules, the drugs, etc. Is it any wonder PL has no chance to get into the Olympics?

Picture it bro; Dimas backstage getting into his new pimped out C&J Supersuit that adds 200lbs to his lift - but his competitor is only getting 100lbs out of his b/c Dimas knows better how to use the Suit and he has a better fit! Now, go explain that to the fans in the stands!

I understand it allowing us to lift around injuries, etc., but by and large they serve one purpose - to lift weight that you couldn’t ordinarily lift - and I ask you, what is the point of that? And from there everything is skewed and because you cannot make a comparison (remember, I was shooting for elite, but I couldn’t reconcile what the fuck elite was…was it triple ply, double ply, ipf or some other less strict alphabet org? drugs? no drugs?) and if you can’t make a comparison among lifters to know who is really the best, then what is the point? Sadly, what could be a sport is just a damn “hobby”.

And you hit the nail on the head when you didn’t take on the drug argument. The drugs are everywhere and its just a fact of life - my best friend was a world class high jumper - I know the truth of drugs in the olympics - charlie francis was not really exaggerating. So in reality, drugs are NOT the problem in PL - they exist in other sport and they exist in OLY weightlifting.

It’s the gear bro! The gear makes every damn lift unreputable. It’s why WSM is on TV and PL will never be. Sure the WSM guys can slip into a suit but by and large, most of the events cannot be aided by a damn suit and people can identify with that.

Can you imagine the casual observer attempting to understand the point of squeezing into a shirt so you can bench 100lbs more than you can?

And I ask you (not you specifically :slight_smile: ) - what would the sport lose by getting rid of the gear? NOTHING. The numbers would go way down but guess what, those numbers would have credibility!

It’s why, in my mind, the DL is the only lift left with credibility because it can’t really be assisted. It’s why the DL record stood for many many years ( I knew the dude that set it - name escapes me but he pulled 925? was from PA and was affiliated with Terry Grimwood who is a friend of mine - due was about 6’8"). I think the record stood a good 20 years ???

And finally, if for whatever reason, your musculature, tendons, etc., can no longer handle a certain weight well then guess what? You can’t lift the weight. OLY lifters retire for this reason all the time. When it’s time to stop, its time to stop :slight_smile: !

Very insightful post by the way about elite and masters…you’ve obviously been doing this longer than me but hell, I don’t even know if I can consider myself still “doing” it. I know I’m trying to get stronger, but I have no real fire to compete for all the reasons I mention. Bro, I don’t even suscribe to PLUSA anymore - I just don’t care. I get MILO now and you know what? I like that the overwhelming theme of MILO is what the heck can you lift w/o a damn suit! LOL…

Anyway, we sure hijacked this thread…sorry guys. This deserves its own topic but man it would be one free-for-all pissing match.

Personally, I’d like to see all the equipment go. Singlet, belt and wraps only. And let’s see where we all finish. Yup, I think that would light a fire under my ass again to compete. I know there are raw orgs, but it just seems fringe to me when the assisted lifts get all the credit and publicity.

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[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
I agree with everything tom63 wrote. I think he has his head on straight, unlike BodyGuard.

It’s obvious to anyone that Body Guard has some personal vendetta or something against me and will continue to spread bullshit. It appears his goal is to miscontrue past posts I have made in attempt to discredit my reputation and concerning my beliefs on what is considered world class.

I can’t argue against someone so stupid and blind that he can’t even read what I wrote.

He says I said “a 500 lb. squat is commonplace”.

Not true.

He says I said “a 700x3 deadlift is ok”.

Not true.

Sorry man, but I have to “nitpick”, as you say, when you have no ability to read what I write.

I’m done responding to you.

p.s. don’t call me “kid”. you might have 16 years on me, but i’m an adult and if you saw me in person, you’d give me the respect. and i’d give you yours. don’t try to be some tough internet guy, b/c that’s how you’re coming off when you throw the word “kid” out there, especially since I’m 25.[/quote]

LMFAO kid. Internet tough guy? LOL I didn’t make up “bodyguard” b/c I liked Kevin Costner and the movie…by the way, I’m a real person…I don’t hide behind an internet “rasslin name” as a friend of mine is fond of putting it. My name is Steve Dana and I live in Gibbstown NJ. Frankly, this whole internet posting anonymously thing is bullshit - if you got something to say, you should be able to put your name next to it. Otherwise you should shut the fuck up (not directed to you - I speak in general). But now that we’ve been introduced…

But anyway…I didn’t think I was trying to be tough (I don’t remember using “kid” derisively - just an acknowledgement that you’re a young buck full of piss and vinegar - not a bad thing) and with regard to if I’d respect you in person, that would be up in the air until it happened - but you don’t get a guarantee b/c you can pull 6 and you’re 25 lol. If you gave, you shall recieve…no more simple and no more complicated…and it has nothing to do with seeing you in person - as if you imply your appearance would somehow influence me…funny shit bro.

Anyway, since you insist on being force fed your words, I will see if the ability to search your own posts go back far enough where you posted on the squat. I believe it was the MMA guy that did 400 for 20 and then 500 half assed for a few. But I DO remember you. And your comments about the 300 PC that were also shot down by others…but I don’t remember the title of that thread. But if you insist…I shall go find.

77

[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
ZEB wrote:
MachineAZ wrote:

That’s nice and all, but why do you even bring up your AGE and the fact you are DRUG FREE? Nobody cares.

Wrong!

I care, and I’m impressed. When you get into your 40’s you will see what he’s talking about.

Remember, everything matters: age, weight, “assisted,” gear etc.

Of course all those matter ZEB, nobody is debating that.

I just don’t care. I don’t want to hear about it. And he doesn’t need to throw that out there when nobody is asking.

When someone asks you, “what do you squat?” do you say “I squat 400 AND I’m 40 years old AND I’m drug free”.

The only reason you would is to make yourself feel better or give excuses about how much you COULD be doing, if only you were younger and on some drugs.[/quote]

You REALLY are funny! I would think you COULD be talking shit if you COULD outlift me…but you CAN’T. Age and drug status are absolutely relevant in strength sports. I’m not making excuses…but I can’t help but to wonder how at 25 and possibly on drugs it makes you feel to know you can’t outlift a dude that is 41? Just wondering. It’s fuck me up.

My sport was basketball…at 25 no one 41 could beat me. I’d hate to be you bro. Consider the anadrol.

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[quote]MachineAZ wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
Now he’s here jerking us all off about how 700x3 is o.k., but not world class. And to the last poster, I don’t take exception to the 800 world class comment but remember, at 700x3 he is knocking on the door and would definitely be in the mid 7’s.

I had to quote the best part.

I never said “700x3 is ‘ok’.” I think it’s pretty freaking impressive. Again, I just don’t think it is world class.

Also, you have no idea about what is max is. A 700x3 deadlift doesn’t always equate to a mid 700 max and you certainly can’t say it would “definitely be in the mid 7’s”. For all we know, his max is 735 or 740.[/quote]

More evidence that you’ll stretch your lil pecker to make an invalid point. Your age explains alot…you think you know more than you do. Find me an experienced powerlifter that thinks a guy deadlifting 700x3 w/o bouncing the fucking bar off the floor is only DL 735…clown.

79

MachineAZ:

You know what? I apologize. I think you’re wrong and I disagree with your opinion about the lift and where it stands. I also believed we’d had a prior disagreement about a 500lbs squat. If I’m wrong about that, and I don’t think I am, I apologize.

The internet is aggravating to me and maybe my test is low right now (long ass commute and little sleep the last year), but I don’t care to argue or “fight” on the internet. I don’t mind at all fighting in person though but this shit is silly and I’m just as guilty if not more for turning this into a pissing contest.

Let’s just say we disagree end of story. Good luck with your lifting goals - I sincerely hope you achieve each one of them…there is nothing I like to see more than a strong motherfucker, gear, drugs, don’t matter, strong is strong. Keep getting stronger and stay healthy…I’m done with this thread.

80

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You REALLY are funny! I would think you COULD be talking shit if you COULD outlift me…but you CAN’T. Age and drug status are absolutely relevant in strength sports. I’m not making excuses…but I can’t help but to wonder how at 25 and possibly on drugs it makes you feel to know you can’t outlift a dude that is 41? Just wondering. It’s fuck me up.

My sport was basketball…at 25 no one 41 could beat me. I’d hate to be you bro. Consider the anadrol.
[/quote]

I don’t know how strong you are and I really don’t care. I’m not aiming to be stronger than some internet guy who is 41 and drug-free. And how do you know you are stronger than me? Do you know all of my lifts? You don’t even compete in the same sport as me nor are you in my weight class so I have no reason to try to be stronger than you.

I’d be curious to know how you came to the conclusion you are stronger than me.

At 25 nobody 41 could beat you in basketball? Really? How come I’ve never heard of your name? Are you saying there were NBA players at 41 that could beat you? I doubt it. Not that your skills at basketball as anything remotely to do with what we are talking about.

edit…saw your last post after i wrote this.