DC Training Thread (Part 4)

Training Bodybuilding
21

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
Just as a little update (used to be more active here long ago, gone into more of a lurker mode) I’ve been using DC for about the last 18-24 months or so (with a brief Hiatus to try out the I,BB stuff as a change of pace) and I’m up around 237 right now. Going to finish out this blast, cruise, and then start cutting for 12-16 weeks.

I’ll post results on that in about 6 months or so. Hoping to come in at around 6-8% anywhere from 195-200 at 5’9"

DC is going great, I’m loving working out 3 days a week ALL OUT and looking thicker than ever. Hopefully the cut will really help me bring out the look I have been working towards for about 6 years now.[/quote]

Great job Lonnie! Definitely keep us updated.

22

[quote]Scott M wrote:

The context of that suggestion was guys who have trouble using and feeling the correct muscles when doing rowing movements. It’s a short term implementation just to help build some mind muscle connection not a long term strategy.

[/quote]

Scott I have to admit, while warming up on the pulldowns, I used the one and half rep approach to strengthen my mind-muscle connection but stopped after my first warm up set.

While re-reading Dante’s post I saw he mentioned that you should try and hold against the return and really try and stretch the lats out. I lightened my usual work weight a bit and real tried to stretch out at the top portion of the rep, this is what I have been missing. My lats had no choice but to pulldown and it didn’t feel like my arms took over at all. After this I really tried to push the extreme stretch, felt awful in a good way.

23

first ABA cycle of DC done. love it.

i have a question about progression. I am aiming to hit the high end of the rep range and thinking that as weeks progress, ill add weight and either try and hit the top end of the rep range again or slowly drop lower and lower in the range until i hit the bottom and then struggle to add reps until i cant anymore and switch out the exercise at that point.

does that make sense? should i start heavy and at the bottom of the rep range and slowly work up in reps until i hit the top and then add more weight?

24

Start light and at the top or above range.

Add weight as often as you can, and it’s alright to be aggressive with weight jumps at first… Slows down towards the end of a blast of course… Deadlifts can be +20 lbs and still + reps, for example… You’ll see how it goes. If you go from 20 to 14 total reps from one session to the next, of course you might want to work on reps until you get 17-18 before you add something again… But otherwise, go for it.

25

FWIW. it may look like

Rack Pulls
600x8, 455x13
…
620x9, 465x14
…
640x9, 475x15
…
660x7, 485x12
…
680x5, 495x10
…
690x5, 515x8

end of blast, that was 12 weeks in this case…

Next blast though, you have several options… Could start 2-3 increases lighter than you finished, for example, hopefully end up at the top or above the rep range… Then go heavier aggressively from there… Depends on the person and how long you’ve been doing it though, plus if a movement is new or not… And if it’s a movement which you have down pat in terms of setup etc.

26

ok, that makes sense.

thanks CC.

maybe as a preemptive strike, what do you see as the most common mistake new DC’rs make? im guessing not eating enough protein but aside from that…

27

Picking the wrong exercises and rep ranges… Not having setup down and not constantly being in diagnostic mode… Thinking that just because the first few weeks of a blast don’t kill you, you can add random shit to the routine…

That sort of thing I guess, but you’re better off asking that question over at NOSUCHFORUM (harhar).
There they have to deal with that all the time, after all.

28

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
… Thinking that just because the first few weeks of a blast don’t kill you, you can add random shit to the routine…

[/quote]

quoted for importance.

29

noted.

30

Well the blast is officially over and I am pleased with the results as a whole. Still trying to mess with certain exercises to find those specific ones that really work for me. Like Dante said, “Get weird with it”.

Biceps are getting stronger and was probably the biggest jump when it comes to the poundages but I have a really hard time gaining the size with them. Peak is another issue all by itself! So still messing with that. Triceps are starting to fill in nicely with all the long head work that I am doing.

For the rest of the body, there will be more emphasis on the diet that there was this time around. Started the blast at 216lbs and ended it at 224lb. Going to be more faithful about the off day morning cardio and up the food intake.

Blast results: starting -vs- ending lbs/reps

Incline Smith Press 12-20RP 225lb 11,14,16 to 255lb 8,11,14
Standing Military Press 11-20RP 135lb 7,10,12 to 145lb 8,12,15 **This is such a weak point for me
Reverse Grip Smith 15-30RP 225lb 15,20,24 to 255lb 13,17,20
HS High Row 15-30RP 230lb 15,20,24 to 290lb 12,17,23
Rack Deads 365lb, 11 & 405lb, 6 to 405lb, 12 & 455lb, 8

BB Curls 15-25RP 100lb 10,13,17 to 110lb 10,14,18 **changing this, kills my wrists!
Reverse Grip Preacher 10-20SS 65lb, 10 to 65lb, 14 **changing this too, just couldn’t make decent gains with it.
Seated Calf Raise 10-12SS DC Style 90lb, 13 to 135lb, 10
Leg Press 8-12SS 720lb, 9 to 900lb, 11
Lying Leg Curls 15-30RP 120lb 15,20,24 to 140lb 13,19,23
Leg Press WM 540lb, 20 to 630lb, 24

Flat DB Press 15-30RP 110’s 11,14,16 to 120’s 11,14,16
Smith High Incline Press 11-20RP 185lb 8,11,13 to 205lb 7,9,11
CGBP 15-30RP 235lb 10,13,15 to 235lb 12,16,18 **Too much pressing for tris
Rack Chins 15-30RP BW+25 10,14,17 to BW+35 13,18,22
HS Low Row 15-30RP (Need to SS this next time) 180lb 13,21,27 to 250lb 12,20,26

BB Preacher Curls 15-25RP 75lb 12,15,18 to 85lb 14,20,24
Wrist Curls 11-20SS 60lb straight bar, 16 to 80lb, 14
Standing Calf Raise 10-12SS 175lb,12 to 275lb, 10,14
Seated Leg Curl 15-30RP 180lb 20,26,34 to 220lb 14,20,24
Front Squat 6-10SS 185lb, 6 to 225lb, 10

Incline DB Press 12-20RP 90’s 8,11,13 to 110’s 7,10,12
Seated DB Press 15-30RP 55’s 10,15,17 to 70’s 11,15,16
PJR 15-30RP 75lb 15,22,28 to 95lb 10,16,20
Reverse Grip Lat Pulldown 15-30RP 140lb 19,26,33 to 200lb 12,16,19
Pendalay Row 135lb,12 & 185lb, 7 to 165lb, 11 & 215lb,7

Seated Alt. DB Curls 15-30Rp 35’s 17,23,29 to 50’s 11,17,22
Pinwheels 10-20SS 50’s, 12 to 50’s, 17 **Changing this too
Leg Pres Calf Raise (horizontal free motion one) 10-12SS 235lb, 11 to 275lb, 11
RDL started with 6’s up to 275lbs on week 6, ended with SS of 19 with 225lb week 10. Time issue
Hack Squats 6-10SS 360lb, 8 to 500lb, 7
Hack WM 180lb, 18 to 270lb, 22

Few vids from misc sessions.

31

nice man! those are some SOLID increases.

aside from diet, what changes do you think you will make for your next blast?
IE: what did you learn this time around?

32

I have been reading up on DC for a while now over here and on IM.Im starting to get together a list of exercises that can be used in the rotation.I think I will start the week after next because I still want to try out a few more exercises and see how they work.with that in mind I have a few questions.Im planning on useing SDL’s and deadlifts in my back thickness rotation.I want to look into rack pulls too but my crappy gym doesnt have a power rack or enough steppers prop up.How well would smith rack pulls from about knee height do in place?Also what would a machine pullover be like for a back width exercise?

33

[quote]actionboy wrote:
nice man! those are some SOLID increases.

aside from diet, what changes do you think you will make for your next blast?
IE: what did you learn this time around?[/quote]

The main thing with this program is being able to separate exhaustion and failure. They are worlds apart. True failure is in many cases several reps past the exhaustion point. You think that you are capable of working into the true failure zones but until you are sitting in the leg press with 1,000lbs on it, completely exhausted, wanting to rack it, even though the last rep went up at the same rate as the previous ones, that is when you have to break through those mental barriers and push into your failure zone. I need to be better at doing that. I have gotten better and my lifting partner and I make it a point to remind each other that we are training to failure. This of course is more-so for the lower body stuff because failure points on pressing movements and pulling movements are not hard to determine, the weight just stops moving :).

34

[quote]Mateus wrote:

[quote]actionboy wrote:
nice man! those are some SOLID increases.

aside from diet, what changes do you think you will make for your next blast?
IE: what did you learn this time around?[/quote]

The main thing with this program is being able to separate exhaustion and failure. They are worlds apart. True failure is in many cases several reps past the exhaustion point. You think that you are capable of working into the true failure zones but until you are sitting in the leg press with 1,000lbs on it, completely exhausted, wanting to rack it, even though the last rep went up at the same rate as the previous ones, that is when you have to break through those mental barriers and push into your failure zone. I need to be better at doing that. I have gotten better and my lifting partner and I make it a point to remind each other that we are training to failure. This of course is more-so for the lower body stuff because failure points on pressing movements and pulling movements are not hard to determine, the weight just stops moving :). [/quote]

good post!
i know what you mean. im actually having a problem with that specifically on leg day. your’re right, when you press the weight just drops when you hit failure. my problem is with hamstrings. if i do an RP leg curl, i feel like even just a second rest allows me to do another rep. so, you have to do another fucking rep! but at some point between exhaustion and failure, i start to get confused about where on the spectrum i am falling.

any advice?

35

[quote]law8 wrote:
I have been reading up on DC for a while now over here and on IM.Im starting to get together a list of exercises that can be used in the rotation.I think I will start the week after next because I still want to try out a few more exercises and see how they work.with that in mind I have a few questions.Im planning on useing SDL’s and deadlifts in my back thickness rotation.I want to look into rack pulls too but my crappy gym doesnt have a power rack or enough steppers prop up.How well would smith rack pulls from about knee height do in place?Also what would a machine pullover be like for a back width exercise?[/quote]

i’ve never tried the deadlift in a smith machine, but i could see it working if you got the mechanics down. but beyond this, if your gym doesnt have a rack you might want to think about putting DC off until you get in a gym that does. 20 rep squats without safeties could lead to a world of fuckin hurt. same with if you put any sort of barbell bench press movement, without a spotter (because you are going to absolute failure) the bar will literally stall and land on your chest. just something to think about.

while typing that, i actually remembered something. i have a friend, hes a taller lifter, and he does rack pulls off the safeties in a squat rack. they are pretty low safeties, too high for me. but it works for him. could that work?

about the machine pullover, again im no expert, but i’d say give it a go if you think you can make SOLID progress on it. to me, it seems to much like an isolation exercise to really push it up 100-200lbs over the long run but thats just me. try it! its the only way to find out.

36

re: pausing on an exercise to get more reps. This just comes down to personal preference and I don’t see it as a make or break thing. If you are doing leg curls for 20-30rp and you want to knock them out like a piston and when you can’t get it turned around and completed instantly want to shut it down… have at it. If you want to take a breath or two and knock out a few more reps that’s fine too. As long as you set up the rules with yourself ie “alright when I get to failure I’ll let myself take 2 deep breaths and try for more ONCE, after that the set is over”. Otherwise you are doing a 17 failure point rest pause set haha. As long as you are consistent and honest with yourself with it in the end it’s not a big deal. Someone doing leg presses who got 10 reps with X amount of weight using the continuous piston style would be fooling themselves if they do X+150 and get 6 reps but they paused for deep breaths every rep after 3. Did you really improve or did you execute the lift totally differently?

Deads in a smith: Not the best bet, I’d rather do a tbar row or even a smith bar row versus a smith dead. It can be done but I don’ think it’s nearly as good as floor deads or real rack deads.

Machine Pullover for width: If your particular machine fits you properly and hits the lats I think they are a fantastic width move. You have to do your best to keep the stress on the lats and not the triceps/abs/chest but as a compound move you are going to get some overlap regardless(which isn’t necessarily a bad thing). Actionboy I’d check out some of the old school photos of Trevor Smith working a pullover machine loaded to the gills with plates and DBs stacked on top of that, there is plenty of room for gains with a good machine.

37

I agree with Scott.M on smith deads. The beauty of a free weight rack pull, similar to deads, is the amount of torque you get to generate through the erector spinae (the big strip of meat down middle of your back) by having to move the bar through a 3D ROM, essentially caused by pivoting through your heels and PULLING the weight into you.

You lose this with Smith deads IME. I have tried free and Smith varieties, and even though you can go heavy with a Smith dead/rack, you never feel it up and down your back the same way.

On that note, I have recently tried HS deads (plate under feet to ensure good range, facing INTO the apparatus rather than away) and found those more suitable as a variety for deads rather than the Smith.

38

[quote]Scott M wrote:
re: pausing on an exercise to get more reps. This just comes down to personal preference and I don’t see it as a make or break thing. If you are doing leg curls for 20-30rp and you want to knock them out like a piston and when you can’t get it turned around and completed instantly want to shut it down… have at it. If you want to take a breath or two and knock out a few more reps that’s fine too. As long as you set up the rules with yourself ie “alright when I get to failure I’ll let myself take 2 deep breaths and try for more ONCE, after that the set is over”. Otherwise you are doing a 17 failure point rest pause set haha. As long as you are consistent and honest with yourself with it in the end it’s not a big deal. Someone doing leg presses who got 10 reps with X amount of weight using the continuous piston style would be fooling themselves if they do X+150 and get 6 reps but they paused for deep breaths every rep after 3. Did you really improve or did you execute the lift totally differently?

Deads in a smith: Not the best bet, I’d rather do a tbar row or even a smith bar row versus a smith dead. It can be done but I don’ think it’s nearly as good as floor deads or real rack deads.

Machine Pullover for width: If your particular machine fits you properly and hits the lats I think they are a fantastic width move. You have to do your best to keep the stress on the lats and not the triceps/abs/chest but as a compound move you are going to get some overlap regardless(which isn’t necessarily a bad thing). Actionboy I’d check out some of the old school photos of Trevor Smith working a pullover machine loaded to the gills with plates and DBs stacked on top of that, there is plenty of room for gains with a good machine. [/quote]

i couldnt find the photos of smith but I’m sure you are absolutely right about pull over being a good choice for a width movement if trevor smith was doing them. hes a big dude. I was just speaking out of experience with the one at my gym. its a poorly built weight stack cybex from god knows when.

39

Ah the cybex, not a terribly built machine but it is limited. I usually warmup for my back work with that piece but the hammer strength is far superior in my opinion.

40

wow! the one at my gym looks nothing like that! that shit looks bad ass.