DC Training Thread (Part 2)

Dropshot already addressed most of the issues, but I’d like to add:

[quote]heretorock wrote:
Here is my DC work out

Day 1
Bench press 11-15 reps, RP X 2
Shoulder Press 11-20 reps, RP X 2
Pullover & press 15-30 reps, RP X 2
Iso Pulldown 11-15 reps, RP X 2
Bent over row 1X 10-12
[/quote]

First, what does RP x 2 mean? You should be doing a triple RP set (i.e. go to failure, 15 deep breaths, to go failure again, 15 more deep breaths, go to failure a third time). If you are doing only a double RP set (perhaps due to recovery issues), then might want to adjust some of your rep ranges.

Flat bench press is not really too popular among DC’ers due to a relatively high risk of injury. If you are going to do flat BB bench, then definitely up the rep range (like dropshot already mentioned) to 20-30, or at least 15-30; and make certain that you aren’t doing it “iron cross” style as well as keep the shoulder blades retracted throughout.

I also second the PJR suggestion. That’s a fantastic long head developer for the triceps.

Unless your biceps are lagging and you are trying to indirectly target them with the zottman-curls, there really is no reason to do zottman’s on an incline. Doing them standing will allow you to use more weight, and since the brachialis/brachioradialis don’t cross the shoulder joint like the biceps do, there’s really no benefit to doing them on an incline bench.

Also, give yourself a range for rest between the heavy quad set and the widowmaker. 3-5 minutes is the usual suggestion.

As dropshot already clarified, the second back thickness set isn’t a drop set, simply a lighter set. Give yourself the same 3-5 minutes of rest between the two as you do with the quad exercises.

Stick to pressing exercises for the chest, if you really must do some sort of fly, I’d go with the pec deck push press. Honestly though, BB, DB and machine pressing should be all you need for your chest.

One of the few times when exercise order changes in DC is when you do some sort of lower back intensive, hip extension exercise for the hamstrings (like stiff leg deadlifts). In these cases you should do your quad exercise before finishing your workout with your hamstring exercise.

Honestly though, as dropshot pointed out, you are probably gonna run into trouble with the way you currently have your exercises (specifically deadlifts, back squats, and SLDL’s).

I’d suggest changing the order to:

Mon “1”: deadlift

Wed “2”: Powersquat/leg curl

Fri “3”: bent row

Mon “4”: back squat/seated leg curl

Wed “5”: t-bar

Fri “6”: SLDL/leg press

That’s still quite a bit of lower back strain, but the order will give you a little more time between to recover (assuming that you’re starting the rotation on a Monday or Tuesday you’ll always have at least 2 days to allow your lower back to recover before really stressing it again).

I honestly might even consider switching out either T-bars or bent over rows for something like Kroc rows or machine rows if it were me. Your choice though.

Strongly suggest that you don’t do either of those things. Just be more aggressive with the weight jumps and the food intake and let the added recovery benefits of the AAS be devoted towards progressing faster than you could without it.

Also realize that due to the fact that you will be able to progress faster from a strength perspective, your blast(s) will likely be shorter than a natural trainee’s.

bump

Hi,

Thanks Sentoguy for the comments, I’ll adjust my programm accordingly.

When I said RP X 2, this means:

1 set of 11-15 reps, 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure), 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure.

I understand that I should add another 40 sec rest + max number of reps.

Just for the records, I guess that on rest days, I can do my abs and some cardio (HIIT) ?

[quote]heretorock wrote:
Hi,

Thanks Sentoguy for the comments, I’ll adjust my programm accordingly.

When I said RP X 2, this means:

1 set of 11-15 reps, 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure), 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure.

I understand that I should add another 40 sec rest + max number of reps.

Just for the records, I guess that on rest days, I can do my abs and some cardio (HIIT) ?[/quote]

There are no 40 seconds of rest. DC RP rest is measured in breaths, and there are reasons for that.

Pick 12 deep breaths, 15 or 20 or anything in-between and stick to it. 15 is standard… Some people need more, some less, and sometimes a specific exercise needs more rest in-between RP mini-sets than other exercises.

The second-based stuff is also multi-rep-rest-pause, but we’re using the original version here.

[quote]heretorock wrote:
Hi,

Thanks Sentoguy for the comments, I’ll adjust my programm accordingly.

When I said RP X 2, this means:

1 set of 11-15 reps[/quote] Actually didn’t see this the first time… There is no set rule for how many reps you should get during your first RP set. 11-15RP is a TOTAL number, meaning that you might get 7+4+2 or 8+4+2 or so. Now, if you’re going for 15-30 or 20-30RP, then yes, you might get 15+7+4. [quote], 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure), 40 sec rest, max number of reps (until failure.

I understand that I should add another 40 sec rest + max number of reps.

Just for the records, I guess that on rest days, I can do my abs and some cardio (HIIT) ?[/quote]

I have a hard time aiming the weight for the higher part of the rep range. I usually train like a powerlifter or olympic lifter so I haven’t done more than 7 reps of anything since January, and not on a compound movement since last October, so I have a hard time estimating the higher rep weights, and they’re also lower than by calculation since I’ve probably become very fast-twitch…

Here’s my log from today:
Incline Bench Press 175x9,2,1=12 (that’s even with 20 breaths…I guess lower the weight next time? maybe switch to dumbbells here, but I feel like then it’d be too similar to the next exercise. should this be 11-15 or 11-20 RP?)
Dumbbell Military Press 55s x10,4,3=17 (was trying to go for 20…drop weight next time?)
PJR 60x14,6,4=24 (this is good, was aiming for RP 15-25)
Wide-Grip Pullups 10,5,2=17
Pendlay Rows 135x11, 175x6
Ab Wheel Rollouts 10,6,4=20

The Chest stretch hits my shoulders far more than chest.

The dip stretch is about 50-50 shoulders/tris

the shoulder and back width stretch seem proper though

[quote]TheBlade wrote:

The Chest stretch hits my shoulders far more than chest.
…[/quote]

I’ve managed to avoid this by playing with wrist rotation so that the DB isn’t perpindicular to my torso. Also, I try to keep my elbows locked at the angle I start with and focus more on my shoulder blades inching in towards each other (I’m not sure if that actually happens, but thinking about that keeps the stress off my shoulders and gives my chest a good painful stretch).

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
I have a hard time aiming the weight for the higher part of the rep range. I usually train like a powerlifter or olympic lifter so I haven’t done more than 7 reps of anything since January, and not on a compound movement since last October, so I have a hard time estimating the higher rep weights, and they’re also lower than by calculation since I’ve probably become very fast-twitch…

Here’s my log from today:
Incline Bench Press 175x9,2,1=12 (that’s even with 20 breaths…I guess lower the weight next time? maybe switch to dumbbells here, but I feel like then it’d be too similar to the next exercise. should this be 11-15 or 11-20 RP?)
Dumbbell Military Press 55s x10,4,3=17 (was trying to go for 20…drop weight next time?)
PJR 60x14,6,4=24 (this is good, was aiming for RP 15-25)
Wide-Grip Pullups 10,5,2=17
Pendlay Rows 135x11, 175x6
Ab Wheel Rollouts 10,6,4=20
[/quote]

Hmmm, it sounds like you might just have terrible endurance in your chest. Your shoulder exercise is within reason as far as the rep drop off, but your chest exercise is much lower than average. You are making sure to take in 20 deep breaths, concentrating on getting in as much air as possible with each breath right? Maybe you could video your chest set next time?

Try playing with hand position in the chest stretch. A neutral hand position tends to me more shoulders than chest in my case as well. I prefer more of an angled hand position ,similar to the was that Branch holds the DB’s in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O9lbtvZBYk.

make sure that you aren’t front delt pressing, this could be why the chest numbers aren’t progressing as they should be. keep the shoulder blades pulled together/the chest out and see how taht works for you

Torqit,
I’ve tried playing with different angles of holding the weight and it didn’t seem to make a difference

Sentoguy,
I’m definitely taking 20 deep breaths. Perhaps I can get more air in, maybe I’m breathing too fast. I’ll be sure to check that next time around on chest

The youtube link is broken

dropshot,
OK, I’ll keep that in mind next time and see how that goes

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
I have a hard time aiming the weight for the higher part of the rep range. I usually train like a powerlifter or olympic lifter so I haven’t done more than 7 reps of anything since January, and not on a compound movement since last October, so I have a hard time estimating the higher rep weights,

and they’re also lower than by calculation since I’ve probably become very fast-twitch… [/quote] Hmm… You can be strong all 3 major rep ranges at once, it’s just a matter of not neglecting one or two of them too much.

Here’s my log from today:
Incline Bench Press 175x9,2,1=12 (that’s even with 20 breaths…I guess lower the weight next time? maybe switch to dumbbells here, but I feel like then it’d be too similar to the next exercise. should this be 11-15 or 11-20 RP?[/quote]

You could go 11-15, but you’re still kinda low in reps. Is there some sort of technique problem or injury, perhaps, or are you very short? You look like you’re good for a lot more than 175 for a few reps, but then again, your other numbers are also fairly low.

No worries though, if you do this right and eat right then they should climb very quickly. Just leave the ego at the door and go lighter where you must, then work down from the top of the rep range.[quote])
Dumbbell Military Press 55s x10,4,3=17 (was trying to go for 20…drop weight next time?)
PJR 60x14,6,4=24 (this is good, was aiming for RP 15-25)
Wide-Grip Pullups 10,5,2=17
Pendlay Rows 135x11, 175x6
Ab Wheel Rollouts 10,6,4=20

The Chest stretch hits my shoulders far more than chest. [/quote] Play around with it and use lighter DB’s as well. Maybe half your DB press working weight or so which you’d use for 15-30RP as a starting point and progress from there… [quote]

The dip stretch is about 50-50 shoulders/tris [/quote] You can include the chest there, too, if you do it right. That one I’d do after chest+delts+tris and before back. It can serve fairly well as a stretch for all three at once. [quote]

the shoulder and back width stretch seem proper though[/quote] Cool.

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Torqit,
I’ve tried playing with different angles of holding the weight and it didn’t seem to make a difference
[/quote]

If I use a deep positioned stretch following the movement plane of a db bench press, my shoulder joints hurt and there’s limited stretching in my chest. I try to think of it as an elbows-tucked-fly, and it helps emphasize the stretch on my chest and reduce the stress on my shoulders. Instead of extending my arms completely outward parallel to the floor, like a regular fly, I tuck my elbows, while keeping the dbs in a neutral position, and perform the stretch.

Dante probably explains it better… (Also, use the accompanying pictures for the Extreme Stretches at IM)

CHEST: Flat bench 90lb dumbbells chest high–lungs full of air-- I drop down into the deepest flye I can for the first 10 seconds or so with my lungs full of air and chest out—then staying there I arch my back slightly and try to press my sternum upward --this is absolutely excruciating–the rest of the 60 seconds I try to concentrate on dropping my elbows even farther down (I try to but I donâ??t think they are going any lower–LOL)—the last 15 seconds Iâ??m pretty much shaking like a leaf, I have tears in my eyes and I think about dropping bodybuilding and becoming a tap dancer on Broadway (ok that parts not true)–My opinion is people should use dumbbells that are a little over half of what your heaviest set of 6-8 reps would be. I cant state this enough–extreme stretching royally sucks!!! Its painful. But I have seen amazing things with people -especially in the quads.

when doing the chest stretch, make sure that the shoulders are not shrugged up, that can radically shift the stress to the shoudlers. i have caught myself doing this a few times and the adjustment from shrugging to non shrugging was pretty noticeable.

OK. I’ll try the

  1. lower weight
  2. tucked elbows
  3. making sure shoulders are unshrugged

tomorrow for the next chest, etc. day

By the way, I’m really enjoying the routine, in general. I always look forward to the next workout, and I’m super focused when I’m there. With 3 really intense days a week, each workout feels like a big event.

[quote]TheBlade wrote:
OK. I’ll try the

  1. lower weight
  2. tucked elbows
  3. making sure shoulders are unshrugged

tomorrow for the next chest, etc. day
[/quote]

Yeah, starting at a lower weight and increasing over time as needed is likely the most effective route. I also use something close to an In-Human setup with my butt nearly off the edge of the bench and my sternum high. You’ll eventually find the sweet spot which works best for you.

I made the three adjustments to my chest stretch today and felt it almost entirely in my chest. Thank you all for your help

I need some help guys.

I have a bum left shoulder from doing weighted dips way before I started DC. It wasn’t really holding me back on most pressing movements but I decided to have it looked at anyway. I went to an ART practitioner and he said that while it’s not serious, I should stop all upper body lifting for the next 4 weeks while I undergo treatment for it.

Can’t even do curls :frowning:

I love training DC style…the intensity, exercise selections, stretches, widowmakers…everything! And I want to able to keep training my lower body that way.

Any suggestions on how I can create a DC based lower body only program for the next 4 weeks?

Thanks in advance!

[quote]Ripped Fury wrote:
I need some help guys.

I have a bum left shoulder from doing weighted dips way before I started DC. It wasn’t really holding me back on most pressing movements but I decided to have it looked at anyway. I went to an ART practitioner and he said that while it’s not serious, I should stop all upper body lifting for the next 4 weeks while I undergo treatment for it.

Can’t even do curls :frowning:

I love training DC style…the intensity, exercise selections, stretches, widowmakers…everything! And I want to able to keep training my lower body that way.

Any suggestions on how I can create a DC based lower body only program for the next 4 weeks?

Thanks in advance![/quote]

Just do the lower body part (I guess you can’t do back-work either? Is it bursitis?) at the usual frequency (1 week twice, the other week once) and leave the upper stuff and bi work out. Allows your body to allocate more of it’s resources towards healing your shoulder.

I’d also suggest going on a cruise for that time… Or train legs with regular intensity now without upper work and then take a full cruise (where you train everything light) once your shoulders are back online, basically to ease them back into lifting.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Ripped Fury wrote:
I need some help guys.

I have a bum left shoulder from doing weighted dips way before I started DC. It wasn’t really holding me back on most pressing movements but I decided to have it looked at anyway. I went to an ART practitioner and he said that while it’s not serious, I should stop all upper body lifting for the next 4 weeks while I undergo treatment for it.

Can’t even do curls :frowning:

I love training DC style…the intensity, exercise selections, stretches, widowmakers…everything! And I want to able to keep training my lower body that way.

Any suggestions on how I can create a DC based lower body only program for the next 4 weeks?

Thanks in advance!

Just do the lower body part (I guess you can’t do back-work either? Is it bursitis?) at the usual frequency (1 week twice, the other week once) and leave the upper stuff and bi work out. Allows your body to allocate more of it’s resources towards healing your shoulder.

I’d also suggest going on a cruise for that time… Or train legs with regular intensity now without upper work and then take a full cruise (where you train everything light) once your shoulders are back online, basically to ease them back into lifting.

[/quote]

Yeah, I’d probably either train legs as usual for a couple weeks, then take a full cruise. Or, just take an extended cruise.

Taking time off when you don’t really want to isn’t much fun. But if the result will be that in the long run you will help to prevent further injury, or recover from an injury, and therefore continue to progress, then it’s worth doing.

[quote]Ripped Fury wrote:
I need some help guys.

I have a bum left shoulder from doing weighted dips way before I started DC. It wasn’t really holding me back on most pressing movements but I decided to have it looked at anyway. I went to an ART practitioner and he said that while it’s not serious, I should stop all upper body lifting for the next 4 weeks while I undergo treatment for it.

Can’t even do curls :frowning:

I love training DC style…the intensity, exercise selections, stretches, widowmakers…everything! And I want to able to keep training my lower body that way.

Any suggestions on how I can create a DC based lower body only program for the next 4 weeks?

Thanks in advance![/quote]

i guess maybe you can try pulling, but that might mess with the shoulder as well. depending on your shoulder back squats may be out. try doing the broom stick stretch and see how that works too. i would just rest and come back when your shoulder is in better shape so that you can avoid reinjuring it or having it severely limit what you can do or hamper your gains.