What do people think about push press for shoulders?
[quote]plateau wrote:
What do people think about push press for shoulders?[/quote]
If you can progress on it and it doesnāt cut into your recovery too much, doesnāt cause excessive lower back fatigue, and doesnāt slow your leg strength progression then go for it. Otherwise, pick something else. There are a lot of great shoulder builders out there that are gonna present much less potential problems.
[quote]plateau wrote:
What do people think about push press for shoulders?[/quote]
I would agree with sento and add this.
One good thing about push press is that it will allow you to press more weight than you would with a strict military press and allow you to get more weight up for the eccentric portion of the lift
personally, its too much on my lower back and I wouldnāt be able to use push press in DC
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?[/quote]
Abs arenāt a required part of the program because progressing on heavy squats, deadlifts, and rack pulls will work your abs plenty.
But, thereās no prohibition against doing absā¦if you feel they need extra work, you can throw in a set or 2 while youāre waiting for a machine to open up or whenever. Youād obviously try to progress on these movementsāadding weight each session if youāre doing a crunch machine, for example.
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?[/quote]
Youād throw them in at the end of your workout on either āAā or āBā days. Probably something like 1-2 straight sets of 10-15 reps or so.
Itās generally believed that your abs should be getting a fair amount of work from all the supporting they must do during things like heavy squats, overhead presses, back width exercises, etcā¦ In other words your body works as a whole and your abs are involved in many compound exercises as a trunk stabilizer. If you add 50 lbs of muscle to your frame, and 100+ lbs to the bar on compound exercises, your abs canāt help but to get stronger/more developed. Then when you eventually cut down, abs shouldnāt be a problem.
Abs are one of those āoptionalā muscle groups on DC for that reason. If you feel like you need to do them, then throw them in, if not, then donāt worry.
[quote]TheBlade wrote:
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?[/quote]
THe DC rule for abs is this:
do whatever YOU must do to make your abs good.
whether than means nothing or working them 3x per week
Swapped out SLDLās for leg curls on B1 and moved deads to A3 from A2, so I do them the workout after squats. Iāve never had any trouble w/ my lower back doing that in the past so I should be ok.
Gonna keep the pull-ups and chin-ups till I stall, if I stall on them, because i love those exercises but I droppped the reps way down on the WG pull-ups so I could progress on weight. Chin-ups, I could already do like 4x8 w/ a 35 hanging from me so iām not too worried about a 15-30 rep range on those.
The āshortā on the curls on B1 is just a shorter length barbell so I donāt have to compete for a longer oneā¦ i dunno how much it weighs but it really doesnāt matter since Iām only changing the weight on the end.
A1:
Chest Hammer Str Incline Press 11-15 rp
Shoulders Hammer Str Shoulder Press 11-20 rp
Triceps reverse grip smith bench 11-20 rp
Back Width WG Pull-ups 11-15 rp
Back Thickness Rack Deadlifts 6-9 + 9-12 ss
B1:
Biceps Short BB Curls 11-20 rp
Forearms Short BB rev. curls 10-20 ss
Calves leg press toe press 10-12 ss
Hamstrings lying leg curls 15-30 rp
Quads legpress 6-10 ss + 20 rep wm
A2:
Chest Flat Dumbell Press 15-30 rp
Shoulders DB Military Press 15-30 rp
Triceps Close grip smith bench 11-20 rp
Back Width Chin-ups 15-30 rp
Back Thickness BO rows 10-12 ss
B2:
Biceps preacher curls 11-20 rp
Forearms hammer curls 10-20 ss
Calves seated calf raises 10-12 ss
Hamstrings seated leg curls 15-30 rp
Quads squats (6-10) ss + (20 rep wm)
A3:
Chest hammer strength press 11-15 rp
Shoulders upright rows 11-20 rp
Triceps EZ bar tricep ext 15-30 rp
Back Width Hammer Str CG Pulldown 11-20 rp
Back Thickness Deadlifts 6-9 ss then 9-12 ss
B3:
Biceps dumbell curls 11-20 rp
Forearms pinwheel curls 10-20 ss
Calves hack squat toe press/sled 10-12 ss
Quads hack squats 6-10 ss + 20 rep wm
Hamstrings SLDL 10-15 ss
whos that in your avatar 300?
[quote]nschneid wrote:
Swapped out SLDLās for leg curls on B1 and moved deads to A3 from A2, so I do them the workout after squats. Iāve never had any trouble w/ my lower back doing that in the past so I should be ok.
Gonna keep the pull-ups and chin-ups till I stall, if I stall on them, because i love those exercises but I droppped the reps way down on the WG pull-ups so I could progress on weight. Chin-ups, I could already do like 4x8 w/ a 35 hanging from me so iām not too worried about a 15-30 rep range on those.
The āshortā on the curls on B1 is just a shorter length barbell so I donāt have to compete for a longer oneā¦ i dunno how much it weighs but it really doesnāt matter since Iām only changing the weight on the end.
[/quote]
The larger the rep range the more you can progress on weight for an exercise. Not to mention, if you read a lot of CCās posts in this thread, youāll see how he recommends higher rep ranges for back width exercises to help emphasize the lats in the movement and minimize brachialis support. You may want to reconsider your rep range on pull-ups, and also, nearly every DCāer recommends rack chins over pull-ups or chin-ups. Itās your choice, but the advice stays the same.
A bodybuilder at my gym told me the short 5ā olympic bar weighs 40lbs, but everything Iām seeing online says 30lbs, fyi. The standard being 7ā and 45lbs of course.
[quote]kylec72 wrote:
nschneid wrote:
Swapped out SLDLās for leg curls on B1 and moved deads to A3 from A2, so I do them the workout after squats. Iāve never had any trouble w/ my lower back doing that in the past so I should be ok.
Gonna keep the pull-ups and chin-ups till I stall, if I stall on them, because i love those exercises but I droppped the reps way down on the WG pull-ups so I could progress on weight. Chin-ups, I could already do like 4x8 w/ a 35 hanging from me so iām not too worried about a 15-30 rep range on those.
The āshortā on the curls on B1 is just a shorter length barbell so I donāt have to compete for a longer oneā¦ i dunno how much it weighs but it really doesnāt matter since Iām only changing the weight on the end.
The larger the rep range the more you can progress on weight for an exercise. Not to mention, if you read a lot of CCās posts in this thread, youāll see how he recommends higher rep ranges for back width exercises to help emphasize the lats in the movement and minimize brachialis support. You may want to reconsider your rep range on pull-ups, and also, nearly every DCāer recommends rack chins over pull-ups or chin-ups. Itās your choice, but the advice stays the same.
A bodybuilder at my gym told me the short 5ā olympic bar weighs 40lbs, but everything Iām seeing online says 30lbs, fyi. The standard being 7ā and 45lbs of course.[/quote]
The one we have weighs like 29 lbs (so 30 is probably a close enough guess).
As far as the pull-ups/chins, go ahead and keep them if you want, just know that you may find you stall out quickly on them and that itās very difficult to continually add weight.
If youāre eating right and working as hard as you should be, youāre likely to be gaining some substantial muscle mass/weight, especially during your first couple blasts. If you are also at the same time trying to add additional weight (in a progressive manner) to your increasing bodyweight you may find that your strength/CNS simply cannot keep up.
for the short bb, i donāt know how much it would weigh, but just try to āfindā the proper weight for you and then progress from there.
Bump
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?
Youād throw them in at the end of your workout on either āAā or āBā days. Probably something like 1-2 straight sets of 10-15 reps or so.
Itās generally believed that your abs should be getting a fair amount of work from all the supporting they must do during things like heavy squats, overhead presses, back width exercises, etcā¦ In other words your body works as a whole and your abs are involved in many compound exercises as a trunk stabilizer. If you add 50 lbs of muscle to your frame, and 100+ lbs to the bar on compound exercises, your abs canāt help but to get stronger/more developed. Then when you eventually cut down, abs shouldnāt be a problem.
Abs are one of those āoptionalā muscle groups on DC for that reason. If you feel like you need to do them, then throw them in, if not, then donāt worry.[/quote]
Particularly these days I wish Iād done more direct weighted ab work in the pastā¦ True, they have to work on the compound stuff, but thereās a reason for why powerlifters do pulldown abs and the likeā¦
That arch of your low-back on low-bar squats, deadlifts, sldlās etcā¦ Needs some force coming from the other side to get enough pressure built up to avoid any disc issues.
And letās not forget about hernias.
Just one heavy ab exercise or 2 in a rotation or whatever would imo be a good ideaā¦ Plus some ab-wheel roll-outs or whatever you can do to get that āotherā layer of your abs strong, the one/ones which keeps your stomach flat, pretty much (Sento knows the details Iām sure, lol).
Low-back strength isnāt going to be a problem on DC with whatever deadlift variants youāre doing etcā¦ Low-back being too strong compared to your abs is much more likely to cause trouble on DC.
Weak abs = slipped/herniated disks.
So Iāve been DCing for about 3 months now (up 12 pounds, some of it fat) and I think I have hit a point where my form is being compromised so that my weights can continue to increase on a few select exercisesā¦ Things like using a little too much body english on curls and lat pull downs and the like. Back thickness and Leg exercises are still strict form and increasing quite nicely, so I will be staying the course on those.
Iām not incorporating them because they are for the 3-way split guys (which I am nowhere near ready for), but all of the āspecialā exercises Dante comes up with seem to emphasize 3 things - Continuous Muscle Tension, Controlled Negative, and a Deep Stretch at some point in the ROM - so Iām going to take that lesson and incorporate those ideas back into the basic movement of my current blast that still have huge weight increase potential.
This may involve staying at my current weights for a few weeks and focusing on increasing the amount of quality reps or even dropping a few pounds on some lifts and starting over again, but I really think its the right thing to do.
Iāll let you guys know how it goes over the coming months.
Have any of you guys experienced a similar situation? Where the threat of beating the log book becomes so great you sacrifice really hitting the muscle just to push a few extra pounds? What did you do to correct it?
[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
So Iāve been DCing for about 3 months now (up 12 pounds, some of it fat) and I think I have hit a point where my form is being compromised so that my weights can continue to increase on a few select exercisesā¦ Things like using a little too much body english on curls and lat pull downs and the like. Back thickness and Leg exercises are still strict form and increasing quite nicely, so I will be staying the course on those.
Iām not incorporating them because they are for the 3-way split guys (which I am nowhere near ready for), but all of the āspecialā exercises Dante comes up with seem to emphasize 3 things - Continuous Muscle Tension, Controlled Negative, and a Deep Stretch at some point in the ROM - so Iām going to take that lesson and incorporate those ideas back into the basic movement of my current blast that still have huge weight increase potential.[/quote] All those exercises can be used as regular exercises, at least the ones Iām aware ofā¦ Even pec dec presses. Just go with the right RP rep range and youāre set. Only thing Iād not use as a regular exercise are those ālong-rowsā or whatever theyāre called. [quote]
This may involve staying at my current weights for a few weeks and focusing on increasing the amount of quality reps or even dropping a few pounds on some lifts and starting over again, but I really think its the right thing to do.
Iāll let you guys know how it goes over the coming months.
Have any of you guys experienced a similar situation? Where the threat of beating the log book becomes so great you sacrifice really hitting the muscle just to push a few extra pounds? What did you do to correct it?[/quote]
Man, this is too little data. I could tell you to do this and that, but reallyā¦ Post some vids etcā¦
Also, what did your progress in poundage and reps look like?
I.e. if you went Alt. from 20 reps on Alt. Offset curls up in weight until you could only get 12 reps or so, youāll have to either work up in reps and keep the weight for a while, switch the exercise out or lower the weight a bit if form is become a real issue.
Also, 3 monthsā¦ Thatās pretty much the time most nattiesā first blast ends.
After a cruise (during which you can go down a little in weight and not go to failure etc), progress should become easier to obtain without sacrificing āformāā¦
I actually love the pulley rows for a lat width move, 15-30RP though or else I have trouble just staying in position.
The form things happens to the best of us and there comes a point when a swinging 55 lb dumbbell curl for 18RP needs to be backed down to 45 strict for 22RP and built back up over time. The next time around when you get to the 55s you will be stricter and stimulating more muscle fibers in the biceps instead of your lower back and traps.
i am currently using a wide grip low pulley row for lats and have found that it works very well for back width. it doesnāt have the same type of ānot being able to stay iin positionā as the dante rows that uses the tricep rope attaachment. for some reason, when it comes to biceps, i always feel as though i am working back up to the same weights like what scott says where i get to around the 60lb point or so and then have to drop it back down because the form starts to look a little ugly.
Thanks CC and Scott M, I may get some videos up some time in the near future for my own sake, to examine my own form. Iām actually partly into my 2nd blast, since a trip out of the country caused my first blast to be only 6 weeks. Iām just starting to notice that as the weights go up, on a few select exercises only, that the form is starting to suffer a small bit, I just wanted to nip that in the bud before it started getting worse.
Poundage increases have been quite impressive considering I was basically stalled on my typical BBing volume routine for around 6 months. For things like arms Iām using 20-30 pounds more weight for the same RP, Chest Iām up 40 pounds in the same RPā¦ I was just noticing I was starting to let the controlled negative and mind-muscle-connection slip a little as the weights were increasing.
Plus I think that the stuff Dante talks about, like focusing on the deep stretch for things like Back Width exercises instead of worrying about getting the next rep, I could be paying much more attention to. I keep reading Danteās posts on IM and am still coming across great advice that I am trying to incorporate as I go along.
I tried to read into his exercises that he uses with guys on the 3-way(and does not recommend for 2-way guys, so Iām trying to avoid them as per his advice) and find the commonalities in what they were actually doing (ie - deep stretch, continuous TUT, eliminating the cheating aspect) and am trying to incorporate those principles into the lifts I am currently using that have huge potential for weight increase.
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
TheBlade wrote:
Iām thinking of doing DC after I finish my cut in a few weeks.
One thing that Iām wondering about: Why no abs in the routine? If abs are a weak point that need to be strengthened (to improve squat stability, for instance) how would you add that to DC?
Youād throw them in at the end of your workout on either āAā or āBā days. Probably something like 1-2 straight sets of 10-15 reps or so.
Itās generally believed that your abs should be getting a fair amount of work from all the supporting they must do during things like heavy squats, overhead presses, back width exercises, etcā¦ In other words your body works as a whole and your abs are involved in many compound exercises as a trunk stabilizer. If you add 50 lbs of muscle to your frame, and 100+ lbs to the bar on compound exercises, your abs canāt help but to get stronger/more developed. Then when you eventually cut down, abs shouldnāt be a problem.
Abs are one of those āoptionalā muscle groups on DC for that reason. If you feel like you need to do them, then throw them in, if not, then donāt worry.
Particularly these days I wish Iād done more direct weighted ab work in the pastā¦ True, they have to work on the compound stuff, but thereās a reason for why powerlifters do pulldown abs and the likeā¦
That arch of your low-back on low-bar squats, deadlifts, sldlās etcā¦ Needs some force coming from the other side to get enough pressure built up to avoid any disc issues.
And letās not forget about hernias.
Just one heavy ab exercise or 2 in a rotation or whatever would imo be a good ideaā¦ Plus some ab-wheel roll-outs or whatever you can do to get that āotherā layer of your abs strong, the one/ones which keeps your stomach flat, pretty much (Sento knows the details Iām sure, lol).
[/quote]
Haha, yes, Iād agree that if ab strength is an issue adding some rectus abdominus (6 pack muscle) and transverse abdominus (the ones that keep your stomach flat) exercises (maybe 1 rectus, and 2 transverse, or vice versa) into your rotation would be a good idea.
I had a stint earlier in my training career when I got really into gymnastics training, and developed some pretty damn impressive abdominal strength. So, it hasnāt been an issue for me. For someone whoās ab strength isnāt all that well developed though, probably not a bad idea.
Also a good point.