Namor: can’t ask for anything better than a critique from the top three DC guys here =)
[quote]Lock wrote:
The point of not rest-pausing quad excercises is because of the potential of injury, correct? Ain’t a widowmaker fairly similar to rest-pausing?[/quote]
no its not. the bar is on your back the entire time, you never re rack and while you may stand there with the bar on your back for a while as you get through the set, you aren’t having any “rest” periods unless you consider having a bar on your back “resting”
Geez, can there be any doubt this is the most helpful thread on T-Nation?
I will try getting someone to help me put the HS flat bench handles up in the air. I don’t have a spotter at the moment as I go at 5.30am and the guy who normally spots me isn’t coming in to the gym until later these days because he is training for a bb comp and said he needs his sleep.
I will drop the CGBP to 90kg. I normally do CGBP for 110kg for 8 or 115kg for 6 after two shoulder pressing exercises so this is a bit humbling but I guess I can just increase the weight by larger margins as time goes on.
I will drop the pulldowns weight and go for 25-30 RP
I will do the stretches straight after the relevant bodypart with the back stretch after back thickness (I will keep working on the technique)
Thanks everyone. I will probably have another set of questions when I do the other bodyparts tomorrow.
I think the most helpful thread is the Ass Worship thread… but helpful in a different way.
Thoughts after my first blast:
Friday marks the end of my first blast. The cruise was planned (7 weeks) as I am going to Hawaii for 10 days starting Saturday. I could have gone a while longer I think but my body welcomes the break regardless.
Overall, I am very happy with my progress. I made significant strength gains on everything. I lost three exercises along the way: Flat BB Bench (I PL), Seated DB OH Press, and BB OH Press. As for scale weight, I gained about 10 lbs during the blast. Unfortunatley, I was not as dilligent as I should have been on my cardio (1-2 times a week instead of 3) and I have gained a bit of insulation from the massive food intake.
The best response for me has been my quads. They have grown 1-3/4 inches. I grew out of my last pair of jeans last week and had to go buy more (kind of cliche around here, but true).
My struggles so far have been:
-
Calves: This has been a struggle for me. I usually have a very high pain tolerance. I LOVE the widowmakers for quads, but on calves, I literally bitch out from pain before I can get to muscular failure. I have been RPing them (with 3-5 second eccentric but no stretch at bottom) then stretching them for the past two workouts. This seems to work better for me and I read somewhere that some people (Scott??) RP them. Am I doing this correctly?
-
Hamstrings: The trouble here is exercise selection. I didn’t plan well enough to put RDLs into my routine. The kneeling and laying curls are solid but my gym’s seated leg curl machine is very akward and not intended to push heavy weight. So, I have been trying a host of other things with not much luck. I don’t think I am doing the Sumo Press correctly, as I feel it more in my Quads (and it affects my backbreaker and widowmaker strength) than my hams.
-
DC is very demanding. This I love and I hate. After every workout, I think to myself, “Can I really keep this up?”.
-
As stated above, I struggle with the cardio. The reason is that I have trouble getting to sleep at a reasonable hour so it is a tradeoff between adequate sleep and getting up for my cardio. I have been choosing sleep and doing the cardio after work on off days when I don’t have other crap going on. I plan to remedy this in my next blast.
-
Another struggle is that I go to a very packed gym. This leads to a decent amount of waiting if the next exercise in my rotation is being used.
Again, overall, I am very pleased with the blast and I feel that I have learned quite a bit which will help me to better design my next one as well as to maximize results.
Thanks again to the vets for the advice to me and others.
[quote]RMorrison wrote:
Thoughts after my first blast:
Friday marks the end of my first blast. The cruise was planned (7 weeks) as I am going to Hawaii for 10 days starting Saturday. I could have gone a while longer I think but my body welcomes the break regardless.
Overall, I am very happy with my progress. I made significant strength gains on everything. I lost three exercises along the way: Flat BB Bench (I PL), Seated DB OH Press, and BB OH Press. As for scale weight, I gained about 10 lbs during the blast. Unfortunatley, I was not as dilligent as I should have been on my cardio (1-2 times a week instead of 3) and I have gained a bit of insulation from the massive food intake.
The best response for me has been my quads. They have grown 1-3/4 inches. I grew out of my last pair of jeans last week and had to go buy more (kind of cliche around here, but true).
My struggles so far have been:
-
Calves: This has been a struggle for me. I usually have a very high pain tolerance. I LOVE the widowmakers for quads, but on calves, I literally bitch out from pain before I can get to muscular failure. I have been RPing them (with 3-5 second eccentric but no stretch at bottom) then stretching them for the past two workouts. This seems to work better for me and I read somewhere that some people (Scott??) RP them. Am I doing this correctly?
-
Hamstrings: The trouble here is exercise selection. I didn’t plan well enough to put RDLs into my routine. The kneeling and laying curls are solid but my gym’s seated leg curl machine is very akward and not intended to push heavy weight. So, I have been trying a host of other things with not much luck. I don’t think I am doing the Sumo Press correctly, as I feel it more in my Quads (and it affects my backbreaker and widowmaker strength) than my hams.
-
DC is very demanding. This I love and I hate. After every workout, I think to myself, “Can I really keep this up?”.
-
As stated above, I struggle with the cardio. The reason is that I have trouble getting to sleep at a reasonable hour so it is a tradeoff between adequate sleep and getting up for my cardio. I have been choosing sleep and doing the cardio after work on off days when I don’t have other crap going on. I plan to remedy this in my next blast.
-
Another struggle is that I go to a very packed gym. This leads to a decent amount of waiting if the next exercise in my rotation is being used.
Again, overall, I am very pleased with the blast and I feel that I have learned quite a bit which will help me to better design my next one as well as to maximize results.
Thanks again to the vets for the advice to me and others.[/quote]
Nice one on buying new jeans. I think that’s both hilarious and awesome.
Your first blast sounds like it went really well, so congrats. I feel the same way you do about doing calves. After about rep 6 or so, it starts to feel like warm knives being placed into the muscle as I hold the stretch for 15. They are seriously warm for the rest of the workout afterwards. It’s a fun torture 
I’m sure you can do whatever works for you, I wouldn’t train towards pain instead of just discomfort.
Have fun in Hawaii. Hopefully with DC you can get as big as the locals there the next time you go.
[quote]namor wrote:
Geez, can there be any doubt this is the most helpful thread on T-Nation?
I will try getting someone to help me put the HS flat bench handles up in the air. I don’t have a spotter at the moment as I go at 5.30am[/quote] Whoa… That early? I’m down up to 50 kilos on many exercises if I go in the morning [quote] and the guy who normally spots me isn’t coming in to the gym until later these days because he is training for a bb comp and said he needs his sleep.
I will drop the CGBP to 90kg. I normally do CGBP for 110kg for 8 or 115kg for 6 after two shoulder pressing exercises so this is a bit humbling but I guess I can just increase the weight by larger margins as time goes on.
I will drop the pulldowns weight and go for 25-30 RP
I will do the stretches straight after the relevant bodypart with the back stretch after back thickness (I will keep working on the technique)
Thanks everyone. I will probably have another set of questions when I do the other bodyparts tomorrow.
[/quote]
I still think it’s a great programme, though I doubt that I’m ready for it yet… Just after 3 weeks I see improvements on chest and really good strength gains, but I’m pretty much spent after a workout, cause they’re a bit too demanding. Going to failure is for me going beyond my capacities. And that’s why one work set with R-P can be more draining, than 3-4 with moderate weight, racking it when my lifting slows down.
That can be the reason why it’s not recommended for someone such as me. Nevertheless, I think I’ll stick to some principles…
[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
namor wrote:
Geez, can there be any doubt this is the most helpful thread on T-Nation?
I will try getting someone to help me put the HS flat bench handles up in the air. I don’t have a spotter at the moment as I go at 5.30am Whoa… That early? I’m down up to 50 kilos on many exercises if I go in the morning and the guy who normally spots me isn’t coming in to the gym until later these days because he is training for a bb comp and said he needs his sleep.
I will drop the CGBP to 90kg. I normally do CGBP for 110kg for 8 or 115kg for 6 after two shoulder pressing exercises so this is a bit humbling but I guess I can just increase the weight by larger margins as time goes on.
I will drop the pulldowns weight and go for 25-30 RP
I will do the stretches straight after the relevant bodypart with the back stretch after back thickness (I will keep working on the technique)
Thanks everyone. I will probably have another set of questions when I do the other bodyparts tomorrow.
[/quote]
I haven’t really had a choice about the time C_C.
When I was at university I would go at 11am (usually 3 hours after waking) but that was the joy of living on campus and having nothing to do all day.
I am a lawyer these days and the only way I can go to the gym consistently is if I wake myself up at the god-awful 5.30 am or go after work. After work I am absolutely brain dead so 5.30am it is. The hard part is dragging yourself out of bed. Once you have done that I am usually fine.
[quote]Vejne wrote:
I still think it’s a great programme, though I doubt that I’m ready for it yet… Just after 3 weeks I see improvements on chest and really good strength gains, but I’m pretty much spent after a workout, cause they’re a bit too demanding. Going to failure is for me going beyond my capacities. And that’s why one work set with R-P can be more draining, than 3-4 with moderate weight, racking it when my lifting slows down.
That can be the reason why it’s not recommended for someone such as me. Nevertheless, I think I’ll stick to some principles…[/quote]
Well, I don’t know how to tell you this but, that “racking it when the lifting slows down” stuff is crap.
You wanna know why DC works so well? Sure the triple rotation, Rest-pause, extreme stretching and other details help, but the reason why the program really delivers the type of results that it does is because it adheres to the following principles, all of which are present in every single successful bodybuilding program ever divised:
-
Hard Work- yup, you wanna know why you see all those people in your gym who look the same as they did 10 years ago? It’s not the exercises they’re doing, as they probably do a lot of the same exercises as the people who are making big time progress (maybe with a few exceptions)? It’s because when the going gets tough, they puss out. The people who make big time progress don’t stop when things get hard, they push even harder. The #1 thing that separates a successful program from an unsuccessful one is the effort and intensity that the individual doing it puts in. So, you want big time results, don’t look for programs which tell you to purposely “take it easy”, or have methods built in to decrease training intensity.
-
Big time eating- muscle isn’t built out of thin air
-
Focus on strength progression. If you aren’t adding weight to the bar on a consistent basis, the program is crap (or you are pussing out). It’s probably going to take tripling to quadrupling (heck, probably a lot more on some exercises) your starting lifts to reach your potential for muscular size. Doesn’t it make sense to do a program who’s focus is on getting you to that point asap?
I’m not saying that you have to keep doing DC mind you; to be perfectly honest you don’t sound like you have the maturity or mental toughness to stick with it at this point (prove me wrong if you want). But if you do go to another program, at least pick one that’s going to ask you to truly push yourself and is going to have you working hard and getting consistently stronger in the gym.
In a couple of years when you’ve run this program to it’s limits and know well the meaning of hard work, how to eat, and how to push yourself maybe you’ll decide to give DC another try. At that time I suspect you’ll find it to be much more to your liking.
Second session on DC today
Hammer Strength curls
(30kg) 66lb x 11, 5, 5 (21RP) I take it next week I add 11lb and go for same reps?
Bicep stretch (should I have done this after the hammer curls?)
DB Hammer Curls
(20kg) 44lb x 16L 16R (are these reps okay considering my bis were sore after the stretch? Should I go up weight or stay there and go for more reps next time)
Hammer Strength seated calf raises
(30kg) 66lb x 12 reps with a 12 second pause at the bottom (nearly killed me) I take it next week I add 11lb?
Lying leg curls
(46kg) 101.2lb x 18, 9, 7 (34RP) Next week I will add 11lb
Hamstring stretch
Front squats in the smith machine, I need to kick my own ass for the weights I am using
(60kg) 132lb x 10 (next week I will add 11lb or should I add more?)
(40kg) 88lb x 22 (next week I will add 11lb)
Quad stretch
For the group, is there anything I am missing? Hopefully with the A and B sessions under my belt I will be able to figure it out for my A and B 2 and 3 sessions on my own.
Cheers
namor - you might not want to do a front squat widow as it is hard on the shoulders to hold it up for that long. try doing maybe a leg press widow or a hack squat widow, it might work better and you’ll be able to do more weight (most likely)
[quote]namor wrote:
Second session on DC today
Hammer Strength curls
(30kg) 66lb x 11, 5, 5 (21RP) I take it next week I add 11lb and go for same reps?
Bicep stretch (should I have done this after the hammer curls?)
[/quote]
Do the biceps stretch after the forearm exercise (only exception would be if you were going to do something like wrist curls for your forearms)
16 is probably high enough that you can go up in weight next time around. You might have been slightly better off starting with a weight that you could get 20 with, but it’s not a big deal. You’re high enough that you’ll still be able to progress and keep the exercise for a little while. Keep in mind though that exercises for smaller muscle groups like biceps and forearms tend to stall out quicker than ones for big muscle groups like quads or back. So, you’re gonna lose biceps and forearm exercises more regularly anyhow.
15 second pause at the bottom, and make sure you are doing a 5 second negative and really trying to get up onto your toes as much as possible on every rep.
You can probably add more for the heavy set next time. Exercises like squat variations and other big strength potential moves tend to allow for pretty aggressive load progression. Also, depending on whether you’ve been doing smith front squats before starting DC or not, you might be able to be really aggressive with the weight increases due to improved skill in the exercise.
[quote]
Quad stretch
For the group, is there anything I am missing? Hopefully with the A and B sessions under my belt I will be able to figure it out for my A and B 2 and 3 sessions on my own.
Cheers[/quote]
Looks like you’ve got it pretty good. If you run into questions down the road, just post them up and I’m sure someone will be able to help you out.
Really pissed off.
Went in to try the new body masters chest exercise (flat one; they also have an incline) and realized one HUGE problem - the fucking handles rotate. Like full 360 degrees. Who the hell wants to try and stabalize the handles when lifting 4pps??? ArRgggggH! I only had 3pps on this time and I lost a lot of strength just trying to make sure my hands stayed straight. Why on earth would anyone think it would be a good idea to have the handles rotate?!? I got 10 + 4 + ONE. Ridiculous.
Other than that, the exercise was perfect - ROM is smoooth, like a DB press, and the handles don’t go down too far making it easier to lift off.
I really don’t think I can keep this exercise. And if I can’t keep this one, I shouldn’t even try the BM incline machine because it’s the same deal.
Im gonna end up going to three differnt gyms just to be able to do all the exercises that are right for me.
/rant
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
I’m not saying that you have to keep doing DC mind you; to be perfectly honest you don’t sound like you have the maturity or mental toughness to stick with it at this point (prove me wrong if you want). But if you do go to another program, at least pick one that’s going to ask you to truly push yourself and is going to have you working hard and getting consistently stronger in the gym.
[/quote]
I suppose you right, nonetheless, this is the no.1 thread for me. But pushing myself and setting goals that require dedication to achieve is something I can do. The only thing I know, that when I started lifting I was pretty much an obese guy, and stayed away from weights for a long period. When I started lifting almost 2 y.ago I was still fat, and weak with flexibility and postural problems, heck I even had difficulty doing 1 regular squat without weight.
And the reason why I find DC a great training that I must use one day, is that it’s simple, requires great focus, something like pushing yourself beyond your limits. Although I’ve gained lot of mass and strength on my former splits, my strength skyrocketed in the last few months. I just started to ignore everything what’ve heard from CW, and train according to the “regular big guys” here.
I feel that I can really kill my muscles with limited reps-sets, but with higher intensity. The only thing what holds me back from doing DC, is that Dante suggested HUGE loads on protein. As I’m living with my parents (still I’m just 17) and has a brother who’s lifting too, I simply can’t afford to buy that much meat.
And I know that the full DC requires the hprotein diet too, and if I cn’t follow it letter to letter, then I’d have no reason at all to tell shit about the routine as I wasn’t given my full dedication and not sticked to it.
But reading this thread keeps me motivated, so I’ll be watching.
hmm by the way, yesterday I trained calves as Dante prescribed. By the end of the day they’re swollen, thus I could hardly walk, even my father spotted that it got swollen up. Fortunately they shrinked now, but still feeling soo great.
Guess that could be due to some kind of inflammation in the muscle, right?
[quote]Vejne wrote:
hmm by the way, yesterday I trained calves as Dante prescribed. By the end of the day they’re swollen, thus I could hardly walk, even my father spotted that it got swollen up. Fortunately they shrinked now, but still feeling soo great.
Guess that could be due to some kind of inflammation in the muscle, right? [/quote]
Yes, inflammation is part of the repair/growth process. It will subside with time, but (unlike strictly “pump” training) if you are consistently getting stronger your calves will add permanent size in the form of muscle in an attempt to adapt to the stress you’re exposing them to over time.
[quote]MeinHerzBrennt wrote:
Really pissed off.
Went in to try the new body masters chest exercise (flat one; they also have an incline) and realized one HUGE problem - the fucking handles rotate. Like full 360 degrees. Who the hell wants to try and stabalize the handles when lifting 4pps??? ArRgggggH! I only had 3pps on this time and I lost a lot of strength just trying to make sure my hands stayed straight. Why on earth would anyone think it would be a good idea to have the handles rotate?!? I got 10 + 4 + ONE. Ridiculous.
Other than that, the exercise was perfect - ROM is smoooth, like a DB press, and the handles don’t go down too far making it easier to lift off.
I really don’t think I can keep this exercise. And if I can’t keep this one, I shouldn’t even try the BM incline machine because it’s the same deal.
Im gonna end up going to three differnt gyms just to be able to do all the exercises that are right for me.
/rant[/quote]
The only reason I can think of is so that people can do different grip widths along with neutral grip or semipronated (like halfway between neutral and pronated) grip presses. Some machines have multiple handles (one pronated, one neutral) for the same reason. I agree though, not the best idea for someone trying to lift considerable weight.
Sucks to hear, sounds like a good exercise other than that. 
[quote]Vejne wrote:
<<< Guess that could be due to some kind of inflammation in the muscle, right? [/quote]
LOL! I’m not laughing at you to make of fun of you, it just sounded funny how you asked this.
Effective weight training is controlled self induced injury. It’s the healing that makes you grow. The human body sends blood to where it senses unusual stress in an attempt to get busy supplying the resources for repair. In a nutshell.
[quote]Vejne wrote:
Sentoguy wrote:
I’m not saying that you have to keep doing DC mind you; to be perfectly honest you don’t sound like you have the maturity or mental toughness to stick with it at this point (prove me wrong if you want). But if you do go to another program, at least pick one that’s going to ask you to truly push yourself and is going to have you working hard and getting consistently stronger in the gym.
I suppose you right, nonetheless, this is the no.1 thread for me. But pushing myself and setting goals that require dedication to achieve is something I can do. The only thing I know, that when I started lifting I was pretty much an obese guy, and stayed away from weights for a long period. When I started lifting almost 2 y.ago I was still fat, and weak with flexibility and postural problems, heck I even had difficulty doing 1 regular squat without weight.
And the reason why I find DC a great training that I must use one day, is that it’s simple, requires great focus, something like pushing yourself beyond your limits. Although I’ve gained lot of mass and strength on my former splits, my strength skyrocketed in the last few months. I just started to ignore everything what’ve heard from CW, and train according to the “regular big guys” here.
I feel that I can really kill my muscles with limited reps-sets, but with higher intensity. The only thing what holds me back from doing DC, is that Dante suggested HUGE loads on protein. As I’m living with my parents (still I’m just 17) and has a brother who’s lifting too, I simply can’t afford to buy that much meat.
And I know that the full DC requires the hprotein diet too, and if I cn’t follow it letter to letter, then I’d have no reason at all to tell shit about the routine as I wasn’t given my full dedication and not sticked to it.
But reading this thread keeps me motivated, so I’ll be watching.
[/quote]
Huh, had a long detailed response to your post, and thought I posted it, but it’s not showing up.
In short it was:
-
apply the lessons you’ve learned from DC to your other training
-
good for you for learning your lesson at only 17
-
try a different, more beginner/intermediate focused strength building program
As for programs, try:
-starting strength (do this one first until you outgrow it)
then one (or several if you want, but make sure to give each one at least a good 6 months to really produce results before moving onto the next) of the following:
-Madcow’s 5x5
-Westside for skinny bastards (ramp the accessory exercises)
-Ironaddicts “basic power based program” (ramp the exercises)
When you finally stall out on those (probably at least a couple years from now if not longer) you should have gained a substantial amount of strength and muscle (provided you also ate big) and (if you still want to) can give DC another try and I’m sure you’ll get more out of it as well.
Good luck