DB Hammer

Responses to LR400 and Chris Aus:

LR1400,

This was taken off pubmed:
“Comparison of viscoelastic characteristics in triceps surae between Black and White athletes.”

Fukashiro S, Abe T, Shibayama A, Brechue WF.

Department of Life Sciences, The University of Tokyo, Meguro, Tokyo, Japan.

(cut)“Thus, muscle stiffness is greater among black athletes. Greater muscle stiffness could contribute to greater sprint/jump performance among black athletes, compared with white athletes, through alteration of foot/ground contact and take-off phases during sprinting/jumping.”

This is the first study that popped up when I went looking for the benefits of enhanced muscle stiffness on sprinting. There are tons more…you just have to look for it. I think what you may be doing is confusing extensibility with muscle stiffness- this isn?t anything to be ashamed of, lots of coaches do it.

Next, we are talking about the same athlete here right? THE Shawn Crawford that placed fourth in the 100 and 1st in the 200, right? Just need to make sure because he already has problems with his hips over-rotating so why bring that up as a cure?! And notice that I said “overspeed reactive glut hams”, which is a force method where acceleration is magnified, not mass, so it has absolutely nothing to do with “general strength” training whatsoever. It has to do with the fact that the gluts externally rotate the femur if/when they are built to a higher degree than the hamstrings(both muscles play a role in hip extension). This is why you must look at the body as a kinetic chain/closed electrical circuit. Now do you see why his knees are flaring and he is taking on “rotational mechanics” to perform a “linear mechanic” movement? You can also see how these mechanics helped him run the bend in the 200…that is why I said this one cure would help him win the 100 yet preserve his 200 gold. Most importantly, now do you see why “pinch the board overspeed reactive glut hams”(which was the exact prescription by DB) would help him? (functional to technical)

I think you?d be greatly benefited if you read about DB?s functional to technical process. Right now you don?t understand it at all, especially since you are suggesting that most coaches already do it! I mean…?hurdle mobility?..come on! Next time you go out to the track I want you to alternate fly-ins with single leg speed jumps on a box height lower than your knee. You should get good hip flexion when your foot is on top of the box and good hip extension when your foot is on the ground. As you alternate this process from fly-ins to speed jumps be sure to make note of your peak velocity sprint ability(please you FAT timing gates to eliminate human error)! That is functional to technical developments, buddy.

Thanks for you reply!

Chris Aus,
You wouldn?t want to mix DUR with RATE in the same session or the same block. I think that may be one problem with his Basic Prep program is that it leads people to believe you can train RATE and DUR in the same block all the time when really the prep program is the only time you?ll see it.

You need to increase your force absorption abilities one way or another because without them you won?t be able to increase your power absorption (fast-force eccentrics) abilities. Once your power absorption goes up then your power production will go up. So the logical thing to do is increase your force absorption abilities through power absorption work as long as you can?then once this fails you then you can go back and perform the strength template.

There are three ways to absorb/produce great force:

(1) Where mass is relatively small and acceleration/deceleration is relatively large. (RATE)
(2) Where mass and acceleration are moderately sized. (MAG)
(3) Where mass is large and acceleration/deceleration is small. (DUR)

The big problem with mixing DUR with RATE work is that RATE work is trying to teach your body to gain and release tension as quickly as possible (what is discussed as time to peak twitch and twitch decay, respectively, in scientific literature) whereas DUR work is trying to teach your system to delay peak twitch (supported by IIB to IIA conversion) and sustain tension (ever do a biceps workout and not be able to extend your arm? Same type of thing!).

As mentioned in one of the post above, muscle stiffness is neurally driven. This means that you want to fire your muscles as close to transition as possible which means your power absorption abilities need to be high. Strength work will make you move like a robot because you will be firing prematurely and holding on to tension way too long. This will cause a sprinter to hit a wall early in the race or, worse yet, tear up muscle tissue. Reactive ability is reliant upon relaxation leading into the reactive contraction…and injury is saved when energy is conserved.

Peace,
Brad

Brad thanks for the reply…

Most of that was what I was expecting BUT, one thing I just cant comprehend is this…

Just say you compete in a sport which relies on rate, lets say its boxing just for example…

Now if your weakness is identified as your duration ability, surely there must be a way to train duration/strength while including some actual sports practice which will be rate dependant…

Surely you wouldnt make a boxer take 3 weeks off boxing so that they can just focus on strength work…

Is that where EMS comes in???

What about people who dont have EMS?

Buy one?

We need a $20 EMS machine that does TENS too

ummmm last time i checked EMS machines were more like 500 dollars.

Yeah they run 400+. I can’t afford that. I was just dreamin.

Chris,

There are a few options you have to work with:

(1)Follow the power template and incorporate the EMS protocols (as I side note, I received the first EMS article and after a bit of tweaking/editing and formatting it will be ready to go up on the site?hopefully this week?).
(2)This is the counter-intuitive approach: get away from boxing and build up your strength capacities (force absorption in particular), which you can couple with the EMS protocols to keep your firing patterns from going completely haywire.
(3)Train your Rate work in boxing practice and train Dur and Mag on your companion session (not the greatest but self-preserving to some extent).

I know it sounds crazy to not continue boxing practice, or sprinting practice, or jumping work, or baseball practice, etc?but you would be amazed at how well it actually works out! Instead of butting heads with Rate and Dur work you will be opening up performance doors as wide as they are tall. Again, I know exactly what you are thinking because I played baseball when I was younger- which is obviously a speed-power sport. I don?t think anyone could have pried me from the tunnel for ten minutes back then…but “if I knew then what I know now!” Seriously, I would strongly recommend you give it a shot. If it doesn?t workout then you can come back here and call me out! Don?t forget to use a lot of affirmative imagery techniques during this period, though, because this will help you maintain your technique. And it?s also not like you can?t shadow box a little bit in between training sessions…you just wouldn?t turn it into a workout. I?d recommend baseball players swing a little bit every day, just don?t take batting practice because (if they?re anything like me) they?d be sure to over-due it. A little light and easy work does plenty to keep you in the game, so to speak.

Go with the power template for as long as you can…but once it begins to fail you then you have to mix it up. The same thing, believe it or not, is true for strength athletes (but now we?re talking about leaving the strength template and following the power template for a little while). If they would break away from their strength training efforts and go on the power template they would create a huge amount of strength potential- but instead they try to “weather the storm”, spending all their time trying to figure out ways to increase their motivation (right?). In hindsight, they’d tell you they saved a lot of time switching training templates for a few weeks. And over the course of their lifting careers they would get a lot stronger and spare a lot of mental agony. In “The Sports Book”, Dietrich talks about how the speed athlete should use the strength template about as often as the strength athlete should use the speed-power template.

The moral? Trust the system, switch templates and use a lot of mental rehearsal techniques.

Just like lifters who take a break from the gym (for various reasons) only to come back a few months later weaker than sin but quickly jump to all-time personal records, whatever you lose during your few weeks “off” (if anything) will come back quickly and be quickly surpassed. Sure beats being stuck in a rut for months on end, doesn’t it?

I hope this is making sense? If not, give it a whirl and I?m sure that all the cracks will be filled as you work through the process.

Squattin600,
Your dual stim and tens unit is in the mail!

Peace,
Brad

Sweet.

As a side note, one basket ball player i work with took a month or so away from the court. When he came back he started nailing three pointers. He’s a center with a new wicked outside shot.

So I have seen time away improve performance.

And about the functional to technical thing, I emailed DB about it and he described the process. So I’ll bounce an example of my interpretation, and you can tell me if I am close.

I remember reading about one of charlie francis’ sprinters angela. she always had a hitch n her stride. rather than fixing the stride with a bunch of technique drills, cf addressed a hamstring weakness she had. low and behold, strengthening the hammies cleaned up her stride. other coaches asked about the drills he used to improve her form, but it wasn’t any drills (technical) rather weak hammies.

it was also pointed out that had they used drills to currect the form, the underlying problem, hams, would have still been there. then when they fixed the hammie thing, they would have had to fix her stride again.

i could have the sprinter wrong and maybe even the muscular weakness but i’m pretty sure it was from speed trap.

Brad, I am currently knee deep in DB research so thanks for making this a very informative thread! I hope I can get away with picking your brain too (just a bit!)?
A couple of things: maybe I’ve missed the justification to this somewhere, but since DB is set against general training routines, surely the recovery guidelines for drop-offs are general. I mean what’s not to say someone can’t recover and compensate from 6% within 3 days, etc?
The other thing is that being a shot putter, I need to throw at least 3 times a week due to the intricacy of the technique, also it is very impractical for technical development to have a bunch of throws in there which aren’t at 90%+ effort. How can I go about setting up a template which will accomodate for the throwing whilst working to develop some serious power.(fyi, coming off a weight loss my weaknesses are everything!). Also, I have set up my technique in such a way that biggest decider of distance is my vertical.
Thanks.

Hey wait, dont you need my address :wink: Man you guys are good!

Mojo, My take is that the drop offs are starting points. you should then evaluate your % improvement and compare it to the drop off %. If the improvement is greater than or equal too the drop off then you are good, if you improve less than the drop off you adjust the drop offs (higher or, usually, lower). The goal is to achieve consistent, predictable results that equal the ammount of work you put in.

So yes it is conceiveable that you could recover from a 6% drop in a couple days. That is something you need to monitor anf individualize.

Squattin600,

You’re on the ball! Kill the most birds with the least possible shots. You do this by training the functional flaw, not just the technical flaw.

It’s like being a bounty hunter reading a road map…instead of scouting out every single street and back-road on the map, focus on the major intersections and you will cover the most ground with the least amount of work.

Have I said you don’t want the athlete thinking? If you can get by without telling him any technical cues then that’s actually preferred! But most of the time you want to give him 1 or 2 cues that are going to correct the greatest span of problems.

I enjoyed your story about the sprinter- it was on the money! But before people get mislead, functional deficiencies aren?t always ?strength? deficiencies. You may have an athlete with poor reactive ability because he needs more strength-speed work?you may also have another athlete with poor reactive ability because he needs more speed-strength and speed-endurance work. This is why it is so important for coaches and athletes to understand the information about force and power that DB shares (i.e. force absorption to power absorption to power production).

If anyone would like I?d be happy to talk about the differences between functional and technical deficiencies going on with the major league hitter of your choice. Maybe this would clarify things? Or if you want to post a video link of yourself on this forum then I?d be happy to evaluate it for you as best as I am currently able.

Peace,
Brad

NoMojoPin,

I agree with squattin600, the recommended drop-off values are nothing more than reliable starting points that Dietrich intended for everbody to tweak a little bit as they adjust them to meet their individual needs. He’s written a lot about this in the past so I’ll just say that once you get it right on, you’ll know! Your results will come VERY quick!

In case you missed it in it’s orignal form, here’s my take on Dietrich’s drop-offs:

(1)F=Ma (strength training): 6%
(2)F=ma (power training): 4%
(3)F=mA (speed training): 2%

Shot putt: I’ve seen him recommended a billion different ways to set this up. You could follow the basic power template if your technique is rather sound; you could throw on numerous days, wave-loading on one day and using the sub-prime method of drop-off on another day; etc.

You may want to collect some video and send them to him. I’m sure he’d be happy to review them and then give you more specific advice. Otherwise, I’d be more than happy to continue answering your questions to the best of my ability.

Peace,
Brad

i just read kelly’s article…

definately an interesting read for everyone, even if you won’t apply it all,

recommended for everyone,

heres a question, with the fast negatives and catch (feet coming of the ground on the squat), how do the joints handle it,

i imagine if i this, i’d have to pick my knee up off the ground…

[quote]Big Roland wrote:
i just read kelly’s article…

definately an interesting read for everyone, even if you won’t apply it all,

recommended for everyone,

heres a question, with the fast negatives and catch (feet coming of the ground on the squat), how do the joints handle it,

i imagine if i this, i’d have to pick my knee up off the ground…[/quote]

Big Roland,
If you stay within YOUR capabilities then you’ll never have a problem. I know that sounds like an idiotic statement…but if you think about it, everytime someone gets injured in training they were trying to do too much (either in terms of volume or loading). Don’t rush ahead of yourself…accept your current ability and work to improve it. I know, Roland, that you probably don’t need this advice…but I’d be willing to bet that someone reading this thread does. That’s why I’m taking the time to type it in here. I apologize if I sound condescending- I promise I’m not trying to preach to you. I should also say that Dietrich suggests that you build to MAG work (“you don’t teach a kid how to swim by pushing him in the deep end”). This means that you should have a solid foundation of general strength and speed before considering these methods.

Reactive squats are really nothing more than an olympic clean, except for the fact that you don’t have the potential to get off balance from the pulling phases of the clean- which can be problematic in their own right- and there’s more variability with the reactive squats for athletes. You can do the basic reactive squat style (which you referred to) in front-squat and back-squat style. You can do them “overspeed style” where the eccentric is enhanced by using elastic bands to bring about greater power absorption. And you can even do them single leg.

Single leg overspeed reactive squats are one of my favorite lower body exercises. If you’ve never tried them, I strongly recommended that you give them a shot after you’ve mastered the parallel stance reactive and overspeed reactive styles. You may have to crawl around town for a few days afterwards but, hey, it’s well worth it! If you’re a fan of olympic lifting then you’d love these exercises. By the way, they actually came from olympic lifting…so hopefully some O-lifters who read this forum can chime in with their experience.

I’ve had minor problems with my right patellar ligament(which most people falsely call a patellar tendon) ever since puberty. Reactive squats and some of the variations listed above have done nothing but help- I’ve been pain free ever since the first session with these bad boys.

Peace,
Brad

Actually the reactive squats aren’t that tough on the joints. Remember to land softly. It shouldn’t be a loud stomp, that would indicate the joints bearing the stress (Bone/ligaments). Just a noce soft landing, so the muscle-tendonous tissues absorb the forces

You should not feel “vibrations” through your bones on impact

[quote]Nuttall wrote:
If anyone would like I?d be happy to talk about the differences between functional and technical deficiencies going on with the major league hitter of your choice. Maybe this would clarify things?

Peace,
Brad

[/quote]

I got one. It should be tough.

Barry Bonds

(I grew up watching the Giants)

Lol. I can see DB busting Barry Bond’s nuts on his speed! “Bonds! Do this REA GHR! Do this ADA jump! Do this REA squat!” :slight_smile:

[quote]squattin600 wrote:
Nuttall wrote:
If anyone would like I?d be happy to talk about the differences between functional and technical deficiencies going on with the major league hitter of your choice. Maybe this would clarify things?

Peace,
Brad

I got one. It should be tough.

Barry Bonds

(I grew up watching the Giants)

[/quote]

Thanks Brad…

One last question on the rate and duration thing…

What if in your sport you need to use both rate type qualities and duration type qualities in the same game…

Like with rugby union, you might be in a scrum which is strength/duration dominant then 5 seconds later you might have the ball and be needing to make a run which is rate dominant…

If you are going to use both qualities in the same comp would you avoid training them simultaneously?

If you did avoid duration and rate work together it would mean avoiding ever training for the actual sport…

also what about strongman, would a farmers walk etc be rate or duration work? if the legs are pumping being rate and the arms are doing a iso hold duration how would you train for that?

Squattin600,
That’s like trying to find something wrong with Lisa Dergan (if you like blondes) or Charisma Carpenter (if you prefer brunettes)!

Let me dig up some video and I’ll try to pick him apart for you. Or if you have some video you’d like to post links to on here that would be great! Off hand I can tell you that he gets lock-tight with his top hand as he triggers his timing mechanism when he is at his worst (which is still better than 99% of baseball!).

Tungsten,
That’s funny!

I don’t know what DB would do with him but the first thing I’d do is see if he can throw right handed! There was a line in Vegas 10 years back that paid even money; “What’s faster, Sid Bream or a Barry Bonds fastball?” I let it all ride on the ball- dammit!

Save the hate mail…I’m only kidding. There has never been a more complete hitter in baseball than what we’ve seen out of Barry Bonds the last few years. And don’t forget this cat can field- gold gloves and all! The fact that the best pitchers on the planet are rarely allowed to throw him their nasty 95mph whiffle-ball action picthes says it all! Is there anyone dominating their sport like Barry at the plate right now?

Peace,
Brad

Chris Aus,

I remember DB saying that you don’t prepare a soldier for war by shooting him with a gun.

If you do DUR and RATE in the same workout then you will hold your performance back and risk injury everytime. Feel free to mix MAG with either DUR or RATE…but if you train the same muscle group with DUR and RATE you will get injured. I’ve never played rugby but it’s makes me wonder how hard each player is really straining?

Strongman training is all duration with maybe a touch of mag. RATE is force produced mostly from huge acceleration/deceration (such as throwing, running (especially peak velocity), etc).

Hope that helps.

Peace,
Brad

[quote]Nuttall wrote:
Feel free to mix MAG with either DUR or RATE…but if you train the same muscle group with DUR and RATE you will get injured.
[/quote]

This brings up a question I had a while ago but havent asked.

Is it OK to do RATE and DUR work in the same workout for antagonist musculature?

for example RFI Push Ups on trampoline and Iso chin holds at PAP