It is dependant on so many factors. With optimum nutrition AND sleep, you can get away with more but that may be a case of what you can “get away with” and not what is optimal.
Theoretically, you could train 3x per week and gain well but gain equally on 2x per week (especially using the 20 rep squat program or similar).
Wouldn’t it make sense to train as little as nescessary as opposed to as much as you can “get away with”?
[quote]derek wrote:
It is dependant on so many factors. With optimum nutrition AND sleep, you can get away with more but that may be a case of what you can “get away with” and not what is optimal.
Theoretically, you could train 3x per week and gain well but gain equally on 2x per week (especially using the 20 rep squat program or similar).
Wouldn’t it make sense to train as little as nescessary as opposed to as much as you can “get away with”? [/quote]
It would depend on what your ultimate goal would be? It would be tough to convince me you could gain equally on 2x per week as opposed to 3x or more.
Shit, you can train 6-7 days if you want to and are smart about your training.
Who, in the real world, gets to train,eat,and sleep optimally. That’s crazy talk. You don’t need anything approaching optimum to make gains. Maybe to be Ronnie Coleman but not to make gains.
Just remember you don’t grow in the gym. Proper nutrition and recovery are as important if not more important than the workout itself. However I feel anything less than 4 days a week unless you’re a beginner is a waste of time.
I’m 48 and I train 5 days a week. I try to mix things up every 4 weeks. I’ll cycle high intensity low reps then moderate reps and intensity then high volume and take a week off then start over again. I find by mixing it up you get better results. In the last year I’ve gained over 25 lbs of muscle using this approach. I also am totally natural.
That’s my 2 cents.
AssBuster
Sasquatch, It seems apparent by your reply to my post that you never tried a real 20 rep squat program.
I go back to that approach whenever my mind and body are ready for the enormous amount of work the squats require.
My very first attempt with this 2X per week program (Mon & Thurs.) resulted in 22 lbs. of weight gain in about 35 days. I rarely if ever go above 11-12% BF so most of it was muscle.
Each time I go back, I gain more, certainly not 22 lbs. but 3-4 in the same time frame is average.
So of course you can gain very well with 2x per week training. Just try 20 reps squats 3x per week and see if you don’t burn out the first week.
Keep an open mind. Sleeping enough and eating enough calories/protein for growth is optimal in my book. Of course it’s an individual thing.
[quote]derek wrote:
Sasquatch, It seems apparent by your reply to my post that you never tried a real 20 rep squat program.
I go back to that approach whenever my mind and body are ready for the enormous amount of work the squats require.
My very first attempt with this 2X per week program (Mon & Thurs.) resulted in 22 lbs. of weight gain in about 35 days. I rarely if ever go above 11-12% BF so most of it was muscle.
Each time I go back, I gain more, certainly not 22 lbs. but 3-4 in the same time frame is average.
So of course you can gain very well with 2x per week training. Just try 20 reps squats 3x per week and see if you don’t burn out the first week.
Keep an open mind. Sleeping enough and eating enough calories/protein for growth is optimal in my book. Of course it’s an individual thing. [/quote]
I NEVER suggested doing 20 rep squats 3x a week. You don’t get to mix and mingle the post to make a point.
My message remains the same.
Remember, my post is tailored to the original poster who is doing full body workouts at the age of 45.
I don’t know what you mean by telling me I can’t “mix and mingle a post”. I cannot find that in the rule book.
Anyway, I was referring to what you wrote; “It would be tough to convince me you could gain equally on 2x per week as opposed to 3x or more.”
The answer is “yes, you can” then I outlined just how it can be accomplished and that 3 days can very well be inferior to 2x per week… That’s all.
Why exactly is your health at risk at 5-7, 250?
Why exactly is your health at risk at 5-7, 250?
Good question… sounds rhetorical to me. Sounds like jumping to conclusions. This person could be as healthy as anyone. Accoring to the charts, I am obese at 6’ 2" and 265… Ha!
[quote]derek wrote:
I don’t know what you mean by telling me I can’t “mix and mingle a post”. I cannot find that in the rule book.
Anyway, I was referring to what you wrote; “It would be tough to convince me you could gain equally on 2x per week as opposed to 3x or more.”
The answer is “yes, you can” then I outlined just how it can be accomplished and that 3 days can very well be inferior to 2x per week… That’s all.
[/quote]
I’ll go slowly
My response was to a 45 yr. old doing full body workout. It stands.
Mix and mingle would be me saying that about full body workouts and then you changing the parameters with a different workout.
There exists no rule book. But arguing within the intent of the post and thread would be logical.
ORININAL POST;
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?
YOUR LATEST RESPONSE;
Mix and mingle would be me saying that about full body workouts and then you changing the parameters with a different workout
MY REPLY TO YOU;
The 20 rep squat routine IS a full body workout, I thoght anyone with any time in this field would’ve known that. My mistake.
So it appears I neither mixed nor mingled nor did I change parameters… Correct?
[quote]derek wrote:
ORININAL POST;
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?
YOUR LATEST RESPONSE;
Mix and mingle would be me saying that about full body workouts and then you changing the parameters with a different workout
MY REPLY TO YOU;
The 20 rep squat routine IS a full body workout, I thoght anyone with any time in this field would’ve known that. My mistake.
So it appears I neither mixed nor mingled nor did I change parameters… Correct?[/quote]
My sincerest apologies for not knowing the nuances of every available workout.
My post still stands
I’ll make better progress on my three day program than you will on 2.
And I didn’t have to capitalize a word to get my point across.
[quote]Whisper9999 wrote:
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?[/quote]
As the others have said, you might get better results going hard 2 days per week. There are some inevitable changes in muscular physiology that come with aging - but then, these changes can be radically reduced with training. I know a few older guys who are still making gains/maintaining huge (meaning 700lbs type squats) levels of strength working out 4-5 days per week. The training they tend to do could be considered “total body,” though there are definate emphasis placed on different days.
An example might be (for one day)
Heavy squats - 4 x 6
DB bench press - 3 x 10 (light, 10th rep not real challenging)
Chins for 4 sets of 8
Romanian deadlifts (light) 2 x 10
Crunches
Then the next day the heavy work would be done for pressing, then maybe a day off, then heavy work on a deadlift variant with a little back assistance work, you get the idea.
That’s if you like/have the time to be in the gym a lot, though. If not, going hard on everything 2 - 3 times per week can work just fine. I would rotate the emphasis placed, though, maybe in terms of which exercise is first in the order or whatnot.
-Dan
[quote]sasquatch wrote:
derek wrote:
ORININAL POST;
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?
YOUR LATEST RESPONSE;
Mix and mingle would be me saying that about full body workouts and then you changing the parameters with a different workout
MY REPLY TO YOU;
The 20 rep squat routine IS a full body workout, I thoght anyone with any time in this field would’ve known that. My mistake.
So it appears I neither mixed nor mingled nor did I change parameters… Correct?
My sincerest apologies for not knowing the nuances of every available workout.
My post still stands
I’ll make better progress on my three day program than you will on 2.
And I didn’t have to capitalize a word to get my point across.
[/quote]
I thought the purpose of this thread was to try and answer Whisper9999’s legitimate question on his workout routine, not for the 2 of you to bicker back and forth like 2 children over something as silly as the quoted exchanges above. Grow up both of you, please. If you want to squabble over semantics fine, but please do it in a PM and not in the thread.
In case you didn’t know the purpose of a thread such as this are to have “intelligent” exchanges of ideas and information not endless debate over how a 2 day a week can be better than a 3 day a week routine and who changed what or said what, blah, blah, blah. It reminds me of the ridiculous arguments between my kids. They’re 11 and 15.
I have to say this is the biggest problem I have with this forum and T-Nation as a whole. It seems no matter what the subject is there are always a few babies that have to get into a pissing contest over something stupid and pollute the thread. JEEZ! Grow up!
[quote]assbuster wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
derek wrote:
ORININAL POST;
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?
YOUR LATEST RESPONSE;
Mix and mingle would be me saying that about full body workouts and then you changing the parameters with a different workout
MY REPLY TO YOU;
The 20 rep squat routine IS a full body workout, I thoght anyone with any time in this field would’ve known that. My mistake.
So it appears I neither mixed nor mingled nor did I change parameters… Correct?
My sincerest apologies for not knowing the nuances of every available workout.
My post still stands
I’ll make better progress on my three day program than you will on 2.
And I didn’t have to capitalize a word to get my point across.
I thought the purpose of this thread was to try and answer Whisper9999’s legitimate question on his workout routine, not for the 2 of you to bicker back and forth like 2 children over something as silly as the quoted exchanges above. Grow up both of you, please. If you want to squabble over semantics fine, but please do it in a PM and not in the thread.
In case you didn’t know the purpose of a thread such as this are to have “intelligent” exchanges of ideas and information not endless debate over how a 2 day a week can be better than a 3 day a week routine and who changed what or said what, blah, blah, blah. It reminds me of the ridiculous arguments between my kids. They’re 11 and 15.
I have to say this is the biggest problem I have with this forum and T-Nation as a whole. It seems no matter what the subject is there are always a few babies that have to get into a pissing contest over something stupid and pollute the thread. JEEZ! Grow up![/quote]
And what did you just add to the thread.
Derek and I were talking 2 different languages and I learned something. In fact I am intrigued by the 20 squat routine so it turned out to be positive.
You on the other hand johnny-come-lately and try to admonish me. Please. Sometimes it’s hard to have a conversation over the internet cause of the delays. Had derek and I been in the same room that would have been a discussion and he could have told me more about that particular routine.
So I guess, I could give 2 shits about how you feel about T-Nation or how your kids bicker. The thread was past that until you brought it up again.
I`ve found 5 days per week training to be the most productive…4 on,1 off,1 on,1 off then repeat.
Sasquatch… you rock! It seems I may be guilty of misunderstanding you. But you are right on here. We were trying to get this question answered and also trying not to be misunderstood. If debate is bickering then so be it.
Assbuster… SCREW! (capitalization for emphasis only)
My answer would be “it depends”. There are many factors that go into recovery. If each of your your sessions taxes your nervous system in the same way (even with changes of exercises) you probably won’t recover as fast as variying training modalities. For example, a weekly plan where one session is a max force session (50-70% with about 3-5 reps), one session is high % 1RM, and 1 session is high volume with short rests you probably could recover quicker than 3 sessions of all sets 6-10 reps per set.
I think your training could be planned to enable you to lift at least 3 sessions a week. Chad W talks about making greater progress through higher frequency. He also mentions that the higher the frequency the greater variation in training session is required.
[quote]Whisper9999 wrote:
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?[/quote]
It’s possible. However, another thing to consider at your age, is your declining metabolic rate. You may turn into a fat-ass only training twice a week. I know I would.
[quote]Whisper9999 wrote:
I’m currently doing a 3 day a week total body program. Seems to be going well. But my questions is this: at 45 would might I actually get better results with a 2 day a week program, since recovery (especially at 45) is probably the most important aspect at this point?[/quote]
I am 55 plus .Heres is the way I have been training .Lets say I do lower body today Sunday .I;ll do lower body again Saturday .Thats twice in a 7 day period .Then I;ll do upperbody Wednesday then again next Tuesday that is twice within s 7 day period .I get two days rest between workouts but do cardio on off days .I change it now and then but have been working out like this for awhile .
hello,
I am a young buck at 22 and I have been lifting since I was 15. I recently realized that more is not always better. I usually go 3 times a week. My strength gains are better now than they were when I was going 5 times a week. However, I don’t gain size anymore I basically stay at a lean and ripped 185.
I have came across a lot of threads where people say you can’t get stronger unless you get bigger. What a crock of $hit. I am lifting more weight now on the powerful 3 than I was when I weighed 194. So, unless you wanna put on size I would stick with your 2-3 days a week workouts.