I have to second the IGF love affair. I am continuing to lean out after my experiment that included IGF during and after. As with any multivariate experiment, it’s impossible to say that the IGF was the primary causative agent, though. But I’m willing to spring for it again, maybe even at today’s prices.
hey guy just curious, but what is this anabolic diet that you guys speak of? is there a thread or a link to it somewhere on here?im interested.
sota123: Search this site for “Anabolic Diet”
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=461406
The FAQ: look for “eat like a man”
http://www.T-Nation.com/readArticle.do?id=459350
Dave and sdspeedracer:
About IGF i think i’ll give it the “big” role in my next runs. Cause it is really goog as PCT support (i have all my new mass on… and a lot of fat is gone)
About EDT… I want to try it. Today i hope to find the time :)… just a little question: during the “zone” i can rest? i can rest between superset?
I want to do shoulder in EDT style: is:
A1 Military Press
A2 Shrugs
a good superset?
i’m not sure… should i do
A1: chins (vertical pull)
A2: Military press (vertical press)
this secondo option looks better to me and involve larger muscle groups.
For arms training biceps + triceps should be the easy choise.
how couple zones in the same session?
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave and sdspeedracer:
About IGF i think i’ll give it the “big” role in my next runs. Cause it is really goog as PCT support (i have all my new mass on… and a lot of fat is gone)
About EDT… I want to try it. Today i hope to find the time :)… just a little question: during the “zone” i can rest? i can rest between superset?
I want to do shoulder in EDT style: is:
A1 Military Press
A2 Shrugs
a good superset?
i’m not sure… should i do
A1: chins (vertical pull)
A2: Military press (vertical press)
this secondo option looks better to me and involve larger muscle groups.
For arms training biceps + triceps should be the easy choise.
how couple zones in the same session?
[/quote]
Hi Cadev
I think supersetting military press and shrugs would maybe fatigue the traps too quickly, the second option of chins and military press looks perfect to me.
You can rest as much as you like, the only objective is to get more reps in the same time each time you do that “zone” again.
I usually do 2 zones per session, but 1 if I’m in a rush or 3 if I’m feeling strong!
Yesterday I did 1 session only, lateral raises and pulldowns, because I got back very late from work.
I will be repeating my zones as of tomorrow so then I can see if I’ve been making progress!
So far I have had 4 IMs, and now my “love handle” area has gone down by 1/4" (this is a very stubborn area for me). My body in general has leaned out a bit though. I’m going to be cutting carbs even further and adding in cardio, because this seems to happening far too slowly.
Dave: intresting info thanks!
I have done: chins+laying french press and Bent over row + cable pushdown. 2 zones of 20 minutes.
I like it. I think i’ll do a full 6 week of EDT.
Thank you for give me the “startup” 
and nice info also regarding your cycle… just a question 1/4" is about 0.6cm?
Nice log Dave.
Makes me want to revisit EDT now that the “natural” days are part of the past.
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave: intresting info thanks!
I have done: chins+laying french press and Bent over row + cable pushdown. 2 zones of 20 minutes.
I like it. I think i’ll do a full 6 week of EDT.
Thank you for give me the “startup”
and nice info also regarding your cycle… just a question 1/4" is about 0.6cm?[/quote]
They sound like good supersets Cadev, will you be sticking to Charles Staley’s A/B split or are you going to invent more sessions? I have decided on 5 sessions, rotated as frequently as I can.
6 weeks is a good time frame to see decent results. Make sure you try EDT when bulking too, it really is amazing for LBM and strength gains.
Yep 1/4" is about 0.6cm. That’s pretty slow fat loss but it is in my most stubborn area. Fat loss elsewhere is making better progress
Glad you liked the EDT!
[quote]chillain wrote:
Nice log Dave.
Makes me want to revisit EDT now that the “natural” days are part of the past.
[/quote]
Thanks Chillain, I hoped something unconventional like this might be of interest.
Having gone back to EDT, I wonder how I ever lived without it. Not dissing DC or anything (which I still think is great, and will be using again), but it’s a lot harder to gain fat on EDT…
Dave:
I have decided to modify EDT to reflect my common split, the only difference will be about arms.
This is the “plan”
day1: chest + biceps
day2: shoulder + calf
day3: core (abs and lower back)
day4: back+triceps
day5:quad+hamstring
day6: rest
day77: rest
Day 6 and 7 are the weekend, and i work as a bouncer so i think i deserve a bit of rest 
About fat loss, this week i lost 1.5kg, but no size on the same site(talking of stubborn area…)
I hope soon to get the “vitamin W” from my source
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave:
I have decided to modify EDT to reflect my common split, the only difference will be about arms.
This is the “plan”
day1: chest + biceps
day2: shoulder + calf
day3: core (abs and lower back)
day4: back+triceps
day5:quad+hamstring
day6: rest
day77: rest
Day 6 and 7 are the weekend, and i work as a bouncer so i think i deserve a bit of rest
About fat loss, this week i lost 1.5kg, but no size on the same site(talking of stubborn area…)
I hope soon to get the “vitamin W” from my source :P[/quote]
Hi Cadev:
That looks like a very well thought out set of EDT sessions. How long is each session going to be?
I had my 5th IM yesterday, left delt. For some reason I always manage to get a “bleeder” there, never anywhere else.
I am certainly getting leaner, except the love handle region which is hanging on for dear life.
Despite having bugger all carbs and kcals around 2000 (I’ve been eating in a similar fashion to the V diet), my weight has only gone down 2lbs. Not bothered about this - as I said I’m going on looks. Bit odd though because I fail to see how I can be building muscle on this diet.
I’m going to start to give myself some more fats and see if that speeds up the leaning out process.
Training again today…will update later
Dave
Dave:
every session will be made of 2 “zones” of 20 minutes and a rest of 10 min, ie:
ZONE A(20’)
REST (10’)
ZONE B(20’)
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave:
every session will be made of 2 “zones” of 20 minutes and a rest of 10 min, ie:
ZONE A(20’)
REST (10’)
ZONE B(20’)[/quote]
Sounds good Cadev. 20mins is a long haul! This should be very good for fat loss.
I have experimented and found that longer zones (15/20mins) are better when focusing on fat loss, whereas shorter zones (and more of them) are better for growth.
I have even done 8 minute zones before, usually 4 zones per session, at a high frequency (ie 6 days per week) and seen a very pleasing amount of hypertrophy.
Update on the cycle:
6th IM due tonight. In training yesterday I progressed on everything, I completely smashed through my old zones with ease.
I worked my progression out to be +33% since the start of the cycle (this is reps mind you, not load).
I am very pleased with this, given that I am on a severe calorie deficit (around 2000kcals below maintenance).
I also thought it’d be good to have an update on the “sides”:
None (symptom-wise anyway).
Seriously, minimising my carbs (less than 10g per day on average) has meant that my bp hasn’t risen, and I’m not getting any backpumps. Also, the “ill” feeling I had during my last cycle is nowhere to be seen.
Last time I also felt a bit foggy mentally, none of that this time.
Dave
PS training again tonight.
Dave:
about EDT: today i have tried chest and biceps… all was really good 
for the first time in my life i see the right biceps with a nice “tube” along it ;)… very good pumps! Also i have noticed how EDT stress a lot my triceps (my weak point in the bench press)… this is my “table”:
ZONE A:
bench press + dumbells curl
ZONE B:
cable cross over + hammer curl
I choose 20’ zone for the fat loss plus
about your diet… how do you manage to take crbo under 10gr? do you mean complex carbo or any carbo? what about veggie? I’m using Anabolic Diet as you know at 30gr of carbo/day but it is hard to go under 30 for the veggie
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave:
about EDT: today i have tried chest and biceps… all was really good for the first time in my life i see the right biceps with a nice “tube” along it ;)… very good pumps! Also i have noticed how EDT stress a lot my triceps (my weak point in the bench press)… this is my “table”:
ZONE A:
bench press + dumbells curl
ZONE B:
cable cross over + hammer curl
I choose 20’ zone for the fat loss plus
about your diet… how do you manage to take crbo under 10gr? do you mean complex carbo or any carbo? what about veggie? I’m using Anabolic Diet as you know at 30gr of carbo/day but it is hard to go under 30 for the veggie
[/quote]
Hi Cadev:
To get my carbs under 10g, almost everything I eat says <0.1g carbs per 100g. For veggies I stick mainly to spinach and broccoli (lower carbs) and avoid peas, carrots etc. Basically I am limiting my veggies for now, but this isn’t a long term thing.
I have decided to try out the AD again and I want to accomplish the shift as soon as possible.
Early on I used a similar idea to the V-Diet (for about the first week). My love handle region has not decreased at all yet (everything else is looking good though) so I thought I’d add in more fats = AD.
I will be having a very conservative carbup at the weekend.
As for the rest of the cycle, I’ve just done my 7th IM and gone training. I did am + pm sessions today (took a day off work). Strength is blasting up despite very low kcals.
Being new to AAS I am really blown away by their sheer power, even when I am eating like a bird. I am really looking forward to my test prop + dbol cycle which will be a gainer.
My weight, although I look leaner, is only 2lb lower than cycle start.
Dave
Dave: thank you for the great info.
Your log is really inresting
[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave: thank you for the great info.
Your log is really inresting ;)[/quote]
Thanks Cadev
I think I finally hit “the wall” today on the adaptation phase of the AD. I’ve been low carbing for a while and though I’d gotten away with a gentle “shift”, but I was feeling very faint for most of the evening today.
Update: Still no libido problems, in fact there has been an increase in libido. No acne, no raise in blood pressure.
Strength is still rising, weight is holding steady, fat is melting off now that I’ve included more fats in my diet. I’m hovering at around 2000kcals/day, and my maintenance pre-cycle was around 4500kcals.
I guess this is what around 1500mg of AAS per week does for you on a caloric deficit
NB: Since switching to the AD, my most stubborn area (love handles) has quickly lost 1". It hadn’t changed at all in over a week of “V-dieting”.
Dave
NOTE: I’ll be adding in the dreaded cardio soon…
Never really done traditional “cardio”, I assume low intensity 20/30mins is best if I’m also doing EDT?
Dave:
About AAS-> your info are really great. ASAP (ie when i’ll get the gear…) I’ll start to cycle and we can compare results (same training, same diet, same goal… different gear)
About cardio-> with EDT i think short interval training will be best… also interval training helps you depleting carb (AD plus)
About results-> how is the abs “zone”?
Dave:
about EDT… which abs workout do you perfoem?