Dave's No Test 3 Weeker

Pharma
1

Hey everyone,

I’m doing a 3 week cycle of npp + anadrol + winstrol as outlined in Bushy’s 3 weeker thread.

150ml npp EOD
100mg Anadrol ED
50mg Winstrol ED

No test base (which is the reason I’m logging) I thought it may prove interesting to see I fare.

I’m using EDT throughout the cycle, and maintaining a slight kcal deficit with low carbs.

My goals are to maintain/increase my measurements, except my waist! I’ll be going by my waist and upper arm measurements for ease. I’m going to try to avoid focusing on my weight.

measurements now:
upper arm 18 1/4
waist 35 3/4

@ 5’ 10"

Had my first shot this morning… left delt 1ml npp.

Dave

2

That’s a solid dose at 1575mg/wk. Should get some results. With that much juice, why not drop the cals lower? I guess at that point you wouldn’t expect to make gains though.

3

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Looks effin cool Dave. How did the delt take the 1ml? What are your rotations going to be this go round? And what is the frequency on the npp, same as before? Eod?
Good luck mate
ToneBone
[/quote]

Hey ToneBone thanks for the good luck wishes mate. My delt is tolerating the 1ml npp quite well.

It’s far less painful than tpp, and using 1ml EOD is a lot less hassle than 3ml! I think I will doing delts and quads only - glutes are too awkward. I may try out ventroglute again at some point though - it’s shot I’d like to become well practiced at.

[quote]
That’s a solid dose at 1575mg/wk. Should get some results. With that much juice, why not drop the cals lower? I guess at that point you wouldn’t expect to make gains though.[/quote]

Hi Schwarz

This is my first cutting cycle, so any advice is great and much appreciated.

Gains are not too much of an issue - I’d like to lose an inch or two off the waist and if I gain a little LBM then even better. How aggressive with the deficit do you think I can be whilst still retaining all of my LBM?

Many Thanks guys

Dave

4

Well, you said a moderate decrease in cals, which doesn’t make much sense with almost 1600mg/wk in gear. Since you’re relatively new to steroids (If I remember correctly) you should be pretty sensitive to the gear, plus a hypocaloric state increases the sensitivity of the AR, which means you don’t need as much AAS while cutting, at least if you’re not a really huge mofo. With that dose you should be able to cut quite a bit and still maintain your muscle. You still don’t want to drop weight too quickly, but you can certainly keep the workload high with the regular caloric restriction, instead of doing less activity (poor recovery and energy w/o AAS) with the normal caloric restriction.

Basically on AAS you can burn more calories through exercise and a normal amount with diet, instead of normal exercise and normal restriction, so you end up with greater fat loss and better conditioning. At least this is how I typically see it done. I guess you could do less work and cut cals more, but the results wouldn’t be quite as good as far as your final look and conditioning.

5

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Well, you said a moderate decrease in cals, which doesn’t make much sense with almost 1600mg/wk in gear. Since you’re relatively new to steroids (If I remember correctly) you should be pretty sensitive to the gear, plus a hypocaloric state increases the sensitivity of the AR, which means you don’t need as much AAS while cutting, at least if you’re not a really huge mofo. With that dose you should be able to cut quite a bit and still maintain your muscle. You still don’t want to drop weight too quickly, but you can certainly keep the workload high with the regular caloric restriction, instead of doing less activity (poor recovery and energy w/o AAS) with the normal caloric restriction.

Basically on AAS you can burn more calories through exercise and a normal amount with diet, instead of normal exercise and normal restriction, so you end up with greater fat loss and better conditioning. At least this is how I typically see it done. I guess you could do less work and cut cals more, but the results wouldn’t be quite as good as far as your final look and conditioning.[/quote]

Thanks Shwarz, so the best philosophy is still the whole “g-flux” thing I guess. I prefer the idea of extra training, so I think I’ll do as you suggest and have a mild cut in kcals and just up my training volume - which is what I do when cutting “naturally” anyway.

Thanks again

Dave

6

Hi, intresting log Dave… I’ll follow it with intrerest…

ASAP I’ll start a cutting cycle (3weeks, winny+mast i think…)

By now I’m using Anabolic Diet to do the “hard job”… i need to lose a total of atleast 10kg (i’m at -6 by now… the first are the easyest… a lot of water weight gone… but I see tha fat reducing… i just have to attack the stubbotn area (i hope to get a big help from AAS… to lower cals and keep high training level…)

Which kind of diet are you on? what about cardio? And whch is your starting bf%?

7

[quote]cadav wrote:
Hi, intresting log Dave… I’ll follow it with intrerest…

ASAP I’ll start a cutting cycle (3weeks, winny+mast i think…)

By now I’m using Anabolic Diet to do the “hard job”… i need to lose a total of atleast 10kg (i’m at -6 by now… the first are the easyest… a lot of water weight gone… but I see tha fat reducing… i just have to attack the stubbotn area (i hope to get a big help from AAS… to lower cals and keep high training level…)

Which kind of diet are you on? what about cardio? And whch is your starting bf%?[/quote]

Hi Cadev,

I’m using a mild calorie deficit, with low carbs. Low carbs for me means less than 50g on non-training days, but back to around 150g on training days. So really it’s carb cycling to some degree.

After this cycle I’m going to do a “bulker” with dbol and test prop. Just to give you an idea about my diet I am eating around 3000kcals per day at the moment (with high frequency EDT), but whilst off AAS I have around 4500kcals and on my next bulker I’ll be having around 6000kcals (I usually train using DC).

How much weight do you plan to lose on your 3 weeker?

Dave

8

Just did second shot, right delt.

Low carbs = shaky hands = painful injection!

Off to train now, 15mins of chins, and 15mins of decline bench + facepulls, followed by 10x3 legpress (I love low rep legpress for fatloss).

Dave

ps I am still including carbs in my pwo shake, but I may try cutting it down and finally stopping altogether at some point during the cycle. Thoughts?

9

I don’tknow how much weight i want to lose in the 3weeker… With anabolic diet I lose fat really fast. But i always had stubborn fat around the belly. So with the help of the AAS i want to go deep and try to defeat it. However I think i need to cut around 4kg at least to be near my “target”. After that i’ll redo a npp + test cycle as a bulker (around feb i think) and o’ll cut again in may

For the 1st time since i train i want to go under 15% /ussually as a strenght addict i dont bother to look nice naked… ;)…i just want to be stronger… but now i’m neat my strenght target and i have chosed to do a year of “bodybuilding”…)

Tha target is to be under 10 this summer (i have to lost a lot of fat to get there…)

10

Dave: which is your target of fat losing with that cycle? Don’t you think NPP can’t be the right choise fot a cutter?

11

[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave: which is your target of fat losing with that cycle? Don’t you think NPP can’t be the right choise fot a cutter? [/quote]

Hi Cadev: At the moment I only have access to npp, anadrol and winstrol. If I could choose anything I’d probably go with tren or masteron with winstrol.

I’m not so sure about a weight loss target, but I would like to lose 2" off the waist.

Like you, I train for strength mainly - but now I have built a solid base (imo) I will be training “bodybuilder style” for a while. This was the reason I switched to DC recently, and it has been working brilliantly for hypertrophy (and pretty good for strength too actually).

12

Right ladies and gentlemen,

A summary of my past 3 EDT sessions;

(15min sessions)

30/11/07

Snatch grip deads from 4" platform
17 reps x 140kg

Hammer curls x hs incline press

49 reps x 18kg, 80kg respectively

2/12/07

Chins (from deadhang with 5second hang between reps)
40 reps x bw (I suck at these)

Close grip decline bench x facepulls
44 reps x 100kg, 49kg respectively

Squats (rehabbing my hip - these weren’t EDT style)
2 x 10 x 60kg

3/12/07

Ham curls x V bar pulldowns
62 reps x 84kg, 150kg

Seated Row (L) x Seated Row (R)
160 reps x 30kg
(I went light because of my painful right delt site, but obviously went too light)

So, that’s it.

I’m monitoring my weight, but only out of interest. I’m not basing my progress on weight loss, just measurements and appearance.

However, after having dropped my kcals to around 2000/2500kcals (at 242lbs) per day - my weight has gone up 2lbs!

Water retention I’m assuming is low, because my blood pressure hasn’t gone up and I’m not experiencing any back pumps (I guess this is what very low carbs does for you).

Plus, I weighed myself on an empty stomach both times (before cycle and now).

I’ll keep you all posted,

Dave

13

Intrestring info Dave!
Do you want/can go deeper on the DC/EDT training? and… ehm… what is DC? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m waiting my mast/winny/igf for my cutting…
By now however i have lost 5cm on my waist. Need to lose at least other 5! :smiley:

I’ll avoid cardio (it kill my strenght and my mind…) I think i’ll use (if and only if i hit a plateu) some HIT style cardio…

I’m on Anabolic Diet and it works great, but i really need to shreed a lot of fat :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW I see we have the same goal and a common background :wink:

14

[quote]cadav wrote:
Intrestring info Dave!
Do you want/can go deeper on the DC/EDT training? and… ehm… what is DC? :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m waiting my mast/winny/igf for my cutting…
By now however i have lost 5cm on my waist. Need to lose at least other 5! :smiley:

I’ll avoid cardio (it kill my strenght and my mind…) I think i’ll use (if and only if i hit a plateu) some HIT style cardio…

I’m on Anabolic Diet and it works great, but i really need to shreed a lot of fat :stuck_out_tongue:

BTW I see we have the same goal and a common background :wink: [/quote]

Wow 5cm is good going Cadev, how long did that take?

EDT is Charles Staley’s masterpiece, it’s very versatile and can be adapted brilliantly for cutting, strength, hypertrophy, conditioning, you name it. I can’t recommend this enough.

Have a read here: http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459765

DC stands for DoggCrapp training (yeah interesting name) and is recommended only for people with 2-3 years of decent training and is brilliant for hypertrophy and strength, but requires lots of equipment and isn’t great for free weights.

Have a look here: intensemuscle.com/17843-newbie-info-consolidated.html

Keep me updated on your weight loss Cadev, it seems we are in the same boat! Feel free to post your progress in here :wink:

Dave

15

Dave:
My cutting phase started 2 weeks ago. I have lost a lot of water and a bit of fat. I have completed the Anabolic Diet 1st phase and i’m running the second step made of 5day off 2day on carbo.

I feel ok and I’m losing fat that’s great.
By nowi’m off AAS (waiting for winny and mast and igf)
I have some test prop in my “box of wonders”… but i still don’t know if using it in the cutting.

I’ll take a look to EDT, cause i want to give it a try as a cutter. Have you any advice on that?

Usually i train high intensity low frequency but i have a problem to my left pec sternal head (inflamation) so i want to try something different without negative and “forced reps”

16

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
Hey Dave and Cadav, Happy Holidays mates!
Funny cause I’m cutting to a point too right now. I like the routine Dave, looks really interesting. I don’t know what EDT is, but it looks cool. As you may or may not know, I’ve been rehabbing the delts, and it’s coming along pretty well I must say. Just this past week I started doing chest, and some anterior delt work, been slamming a lot of ext rotation/cuff work w/face pulls too.

My wkout looks like this:

M-Back/Hams
T-Delts/Traps/calves
W-Arms
Th-cardio/abs
F-Quads/Delts/calves
S-cardio/abs
Su-Chest

    Anyway, I'm pretty excited about a 2-3 weeker of orals I got coming up soon before the main cycle, which will be after new years. Should work out to be, dbol as an ergogenic/pre-wkout supp @ 20-30mg/day, Var at 60mg/day,(3X20), and winnie at 40mg/day,(2X20), which equals out to 840-910mg/week. Not bad for a quick cutter I say...

       And yes the AD is really good to lean out quickly, especially once you start dropping cals under 2200 in my experience. I'm smaller than you guys, I was dropping all the way down to 1600 at times when I did it.

But now I’m just doing basic simple carb cycling. I eat a moderate carb breakfast, work out, ingest some Waxy Maize with BCAA’s immediate post, then a regular whey/malto after 20-30 minutes more, and then one large mix of carbs/protein after that with fish oil. The rest of the day all I eat is protein, fat, and veggies/fruit, with zero starchy carbs. And on non-wkout days again, zero starch, just pro/fat/veggies/fruits.

         Anyway just keeping you guys informed to my whereabouts too, good to see us all continuing on, and my trainwreck is almost completely behind me now, ha,haaa.

               Feeling good again,
                 ToneBone

[/quote]

Hey ToneBone!

I have basically ended up carb cycling too. No “high” days though. I am tweaking things as I go along, and am currently having around 10g on non-training days and maybe 100g on training days. How is the fat loss going for you with your carb cycling approach?

Your cutting cycle sounds brilliant, how low will you cutting cals on that? I am thinking of venturing into the sub 2000kcals zone soon, with around 1500mg/week in me…

Seriously, look at the link I gave Cadev for EDT - it’s genius. I ignored it for years for some reason, but as soon as I’d done a few sessions on it I knew it was something special.

My first year of training was a farce. I wasn’t eating anywhere near enough, but in the 3 years after that, general training took me from around 160 to 180, HFT took me to 200, and EDT took me to 238. It was then I switched to DC to see what all the fuss was about.

Of all of them, EDT gives the quickest results, and is also the most enjoyable and motivating. It is very demanding, however, and you need to eat a HUGE amount for hypertrophy (even more than for DC, in my experience).

Anyway, that’s my EDT-plug done :wink:

Glad to hear your back on your game mate

DAve

17

[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave:
My cutting phase started 2 weeks ago. I have lost a lot of water and a bit of fat. I have completed the Anabolic Diet 1st phase and i’m running the second step made of 5day off 2day on carbo.

I feel ok and I’m losing fat that’s great.
By nowi’m off AAS (waiting for winny and mast and igf)
I have some test prop in my “box of wonders”… but i still don’t know if using it in the cutting.

I’ll take a look to EDT, cause i want to give it a try as a cutter. Have you any advice on that?

Usually i train high intensity low frequency but i have a problem to my left pec sternal head (inflamation) so i want to try something different without negative and “forced reps”[/quote]

5cm in 2 weeks is amazing! Nice one Cadev. Do you think you have lost any muscle seeing as you’re off AAS?

EDT is great as a cutter. What I do is choose very taxing compound movements only for the supersets.

For instance, I might superset squats with chins, deads with pullups, or bench with cleans. Big stressful movements only - no flyes or curls or calf raises.

I also like to spread out the sessions more when cutting.
EDT generally is performed 3 x per week, for 30-45mins each session. I like to do 15-30mins every day instead, with maybe 1 day off per week. Short, frequent sessions are better for body comp imo.

Also, with EDT you shouldn’t be reaching failure - so it’s nicer on injured areas :wink:

18

Dave:
I think i haven’t lose any muscle, the IGF-powered PCT is the “graal” ;). My biceps and triceps are my weakest muscles and the one where i have more trouble with hypertrophy. They are the last to grow and the first to disintegrate when cutting. However this time i have lost fat on them (they are more definite) but I haven’t lost a mm!

BTW I’m down on the strenght side of the game (but I think the problem is the minor inflammation that hinder me to press harder)

About EDT, i’m researching on it and i think today i’ll give it a try.

On your “spreaded EDT” experience how do you split the movements among sessions?

I never performed clean, i don’t like very much olympic movements… do you think i can use pushpress/military press instead?

19

[quote]cadav wrote:
Dave:
I think i haven’t lose any muscle, the IGF-powered PCT is the “graal” ;). My biceps and triceps are my weakest muscles and the one where i have more trouble with hypertrophy. They are the last to grow and the first to disintegrate when cutting. However this time i have lost fat on them (they are more definite) but I haven’t lost a mm!

BTW I’m down on the strenght side of the game (but I think the problem is the minor inflammation that hinder me to press harder)

About EDT, i’m researching on it and i think today i’ll give it a try.

On your “spreaded EDT” experience how do you split the movements among sessions?

I never performed clean, i don’t like very much olympic movements… do you think i can use pushpress/military press instead?
[/quote]

Hi Cadev:

IGF sounds very nice… maybe one day when I have more money I’ll get myself a sample…

As for EDT, when I split it up for cutting, I generally do 1 or 2 “zones” per workout, 15mins each. So, my workouts are generally 30mins, but I do a few 15min one also.

I pair antagonistic movements in supersets if possible, if not I use upper/lower. I usually try to get most of the body worked every session.

For instance, I might have the following pairing

day 1 - A pushpress x chins for 15mins
B Squats x Decline bench for 15 mins

day 2 - A incline bench x bent over rows for 15mins
B deadlift x pullups for 15mins

day 3 - A Seated row (right arm) x Seated row (left arm)

so day 1 and 2 are 30mins, and day 3 is 15mins (to give me a little break).

Pushpress and military press are both good for EDT, in fact cleans might be a little dangerous once fatigue sets in unless you are used to them.

Just try to pick the kind of exercises that make you feel tired just thinking about them, and you’ll be sorted. For me, front squats and pullups are my most feared :wink:

20

Update: Trained yesterday, and will again today. I’m doing 30min sessions of EDT which leave me wiped out.

I measured my waist again on an “empty stomach” again today, and it’s still 35 3/4"… Not sure what’s going on there.

Not sure I should cut cals any lower - I’m hovering around 2000kcals at the moment as it is, and am following a 6 day per week training schedule.